Kushymane
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i was thinking about checking the ph of the soil but I’ve always heard u didn’t have to if u were running in soil.. Will do brother I’ll check when they wake up at 6PM EST
mancorn
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Kind of a misnomer to think of indoor pots as "growing in the soil". You don't have a ton of dirt, so it's ability to buffer (reduce ph swings) is much more limited then if you're outside in the soil. There's growers in northern CA who are doing dry farmer. It doesn't mean the plants aren't getting water, just that the roots are going way down to get it. I'm personally not a huge ph devotee myself, but it's certainly worth checking. (Normally plants need an extra N boost when transitioning, so don't just switch to bloom nutes right away.)
As a side note, I'm not a fan of the hay in the pots, especially if your water through them. I'd suggest removing the hay.
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Kushymane
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Appreciate it bro I took the hay out and did a slurry test the PH was way off at like 7.45 I watered with about 5 gallons in a 5 gallons bucket in order to get it back down to 6.6 hopefully it clears it up I’ll post results in about a week thanks again man..
JWM2
Premium Member
Supporter
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The light is too far away. You’re getting a ton of stretch. Under leds due to the lack of intensity and canopy penetration it’s best to grow an even canopy and run the lights fairly close (compared to HID). You need to utilize some training techniques in order to keep the plants Bud sites in the optimal range under the LEDs. I run my quantum lights about 15” above the canopy for best results. Some manufacturers state 18” but imo that’s just a tad too high. LEDs lose light intensity quickly the further they are from the canopy and don’t penetrate much below the canopy. The advantage to LEDs is the lack of heat they put off which means lower leaf temps and the spread of the light vs HID which directs the light to a focal point and dissipates from there outward. LEDs spread this intensity over the entire canopy to give you great results from edge to edge. LEDs are great for maximizing yield in a defined footprint. The way you’re growing now you’d be better suited for HID lights.
Granted this won’t help your yellowing issue for that you’ll need to find out why your plants arent getting the proper nutrients and that can be somewhat complicated. You can have a growing medium full of nutrients and still the plant won’t utilize it. Due to either lockout or a lack of plant transpiration. Or your soil could be depleted of nutrients which would obviously cause them to be underfed. For this youll have to determine if your soil has nutrients and make the proper adjustments. VPD is very important and should be understood by everyone. VPD tells you how much moisture your plant will absorb and perspire. VPD is the highway that delivers nutrients to your plant.
Granted this won’t help your yellowing issue for that you’ll need to find out why your plants arent getting the proper nutrients and that can be somewhat complicated. You can have a growing medium full of nutrients and still the plant won’t utilize it. Due to either lockout or a lack of plant transpiration. Or your soil could be depleted of nutrients which would obviously cause them to be underfed. For this youll have to determine if your soil has nutrients and make the proper adjustments. VPD is very important and should be understood by everyone. VPD tells you how much moisture your plant will absorb and perspire. VPD is the highway that delivers nutrients to your plant.
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Kushymane
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Appreciate the reply brother.. I know, I should’ve set up my trellis net. this is my second actual grow I didn’t really feel comfortable using the trellis yet. I’ve harvested 3 small plants and they were very tasty but I didn’t need a trellis because they kinda looked like autos very small and stacked. these plants kind of got away from me. My first run was nowhere near this huge. (huge for me anyway lol) actually that light is about 18-24 inches away from the plants.. My VPD is always on point as I have a controller to keep temps and humidity stable in the grow environment. I did a slurry check and my PH was way too alkaline around 7.45 so I watered the plant until it was at 6.6 PH hoping the reason is my plant couldn’t uptake nutes due to the ph of the soil being to high.
THCMonster
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Damn 7.4 is pretty high even for soil. You can water it through but thats just a temporary fix for PH control. I bet you anything the organic material has damn near depleted in the soil resulting in the PH buffers they put in the soil (dolomite lime, kelp meal), to cause the PH to slowly start going up more and more. The only way you can correct it long term is amendment... Cause what happens is that you feed it 6.0 water and over time the PH will just rise back up!
Plus if you add 6.0 water to 7.4 soil it naturally buffers to probably around 6.8-7.0. Which sounds like a good range... But after a day or two the PH buffers bump the PH back up.
The downside is you are in a CATCH 22 situation.
You are in full flower, and your plant is stressing bad... So its going to hurt your maximum potential weight, but on the other hand if you flush with acidic water or amend right now you are going to stress your plant as well because of the constant PH fluctuations. Which hurts your maximum potential of weight.
If you can find any micronized Sulfur i would say soil dress with that and then water with 5.5-6.0 PH water.
The water will buffer the soil to around 6.5-7.0 and the sulfur will keep it from going back up.
Sulfur is a natural PH down. For it too be fast acting you will need the micronized sulfur though!
At that high of a PH a lot of nutrients are getting locked out
MIMedGrower
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If in fact the lime was used up (it would take a lot of flushes to actually do that in my experience) then the ph would be falling as the peat in the mix is naturally 4.0 or so.
I still think when plants fade prematurely in flower and a bloom ratio nute is used that switching to a grow ratio is what is needed.
Or if like you said the nutrients in the soil are used up i would still replace with a complete balanced grow nute.
NairnM16
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How long did you veg for?
MIMedGrower
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6 weeks from seed.
THCMonster
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I meant the dolomite and kelp are all thats left in the soil, causing the PH up effect. Organic material like wormcastings, bat guano, and other organic material is what cause the natural ph down effect as they decompose. But since he's at 7.4ph i just assume all that organic material is gone. Thus causing the lime to buffer the ph too high.
It is almost impossible to completely deplete lime over a standard growing time frame.
The only reason i suggested the sulfur is because its basically the opposite of lime, its a mineral based fertilizer but it naturally PHs the soil down.
What suprising is if you react sulfur with lime half of the by product is epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
I use these to actually ph buffer my coco naturally so the ph never varies away from 6.0-6.2 for run off
A ratio of 1:3
Lime and micronized sulfur does absolute wonders!
NairnM16
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Madness I do 2 month from seed
Dan789
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Just one question, how high over those plants are those lights? They look like they’re at the ceiling...
Kushymane
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They are at the ceiling they’re about 18 away from the tallest plant and 24 on the wider plant
goingtoguano
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One of the first signs of a potassium excess is a yellowing from the nitrogen being locked out. The langbeinite (0-0-22) is strong and must be used in extremely small doses, or used as a soil amendment at the proper amount. I add 1/16 tsp to 4 gals of water and it raises my ppm by 30.
Adding more nitrogen may not help and could seriously impact resin production. Unfortunately if that is the case here, I'm not sure there is much you can do at this point to fix it. Maybe there is but I don't know.
Adding more nitrogen may not help and could seriously impact resin production. Unfortunately if that is the case here, I'm not sure there is much you can do at this point to fix it. Maybe there is but I don't know.
Kushymane
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I think I might know how the ph got so high but then again I’m just speculating here.. I was watering with growers recharge, a little bit of molasses, and amino acids with every watering. Perhaps that could’ve spiked the medium.. I’m not sure if ur familiar with growers recharge. its basically bennies and molasses in a bag.. but It raises the ph of the water when you use it. they advise ph’ing the water prior to using it because it causes temporarily spike in ph that will (allegedly) adjust itself. Maybe using it with every watering could’ve affected it.. The leaves have a curled tip developing also. (See attachment below) I was thinking maybe that might’ve been some sort an indicator to a problem, that an experienced grower would know.. But then again I’m a rookie. I’m just firing through things i might’ve fucked up on lol..
THCMonster
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Not to sound like a know it all, but i have a degree in organic chemistry and Microbiology is one of those sub classes to organic chemistry. Im guessing the recharge product you mean is this:
So when the bacteria feed on the molasses they create acidic by products. Similar to how vinegar is made. The reason when you add this to your rez and the ph spikes up is because of the Kelp Extract that is present in the product. Kelp and seaweed extracts are very high on the PH scale, this is why if you tested any rooting stimulant with algae/kelp extract in it the PH can be as high as 10-13ph.
The reason recharge says the ph will stabilize is because the microbials create acidic by products from eating the molasses.
You are partially right though because that product contains a bacteria called B. Subtillus, without going to far into a chemistry lesson that Subtillus strain feeds on cellulose (your roots, organic material, and the kelp). When it consumes the kelp inside the recharge it creates enzymes called cellulase, and these enzymes help break down organic material, but the enzymes they create are high on a ph scale, thus over time both the kelp and the enzymes created from the breakdown will bump up your PH quite a lot.
Theres nothing you can do because its nature taking its course! This is why premium super soils add PH amendments to their soils. Those bacteria if used every watering DEFINITELY consumed all the organic material in your soil!
PHing the water fed in wont fix the PH issue long term!
You are going to have to amend the soil!
You can either feed with a high dose of molasses or the sulfur amendment like i mentioned before!
goingtoguano
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Do you measure the dissolved solids in your water with a ppm meter as well as the ph? The ph of your water (and additions) will only have a big impact if the solution is of high enough content. Think of it this way, if you add a few drops of vinegar into a bucket of RO water, the ph will drop a lot but a few drops of vinegar probably won't do squat to your plants. I keep my water and all additions under 100ppm (usually target 75) and I don't even really check the ph anymore because at that low level it is unlikely to do much, good or bad.
I don't see anything in your additions that are too worrisome except molasses has more potassium. I do think the langbeinite (maybe combined with the molasses) was the culprit. Also, not sure what curling up means but excess N tends to curl or "claw" down. Excess K can present itself with purple striping on stems as well, especially near the top. Do you have that?
THCMonster
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Leaves curling up mean excess potassium, usually from PK boosters... As you can see mine do it too... But they only do it when i start PKing my plants
I can guarantee its from the Langbeinite he added like you said
goingtoguano
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Wow, those are amazing. Now I have to run downstains and see if I have any up curling. lol
THCMonster
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If you hit your plant hard with a pk booster and the potassium doesnt burn it then the leaves will curl up, a lot of people think excess potassium causes a burn, but thats more of a toxicity. But when your plants can actually take up the potassium it will just curl the leaves
