Please help a novice in distress

IsanFarmer · Jul 30, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
I mean fox farm trio and any nutrients for that matter are good enough tho, just adjust the schedule for the plants need for next grow and you will be golden.

Extend veg nutrients for first one or two weeks 12/12 ;-) than go full bloom nutrients.
This way they have more time to stock N on leaves and will take more time to use the leaves stock mid-late flower.

What do you mean exactly? Start using the Grow Big earlier next time or extend the veg period? If you look at the photos closely you'll be able to see those yellow patches I mentioned yesterday.

Bdubs · Jul 30, 2023

The leafs are light colored. It is hard to see spots. I think I see spots. But if you have spots you may be thinking Septoria. The light color of the leafs is hard to say if it is septoria, because usually they are apparent on darker leaves.
It is a type of mold spore I believe.

If that is what it is. You will see a lot more and then those spots will turn brown. They should also be darker around the edges of the circles. They will be random and all over the leafs.

I wouldn’t jump to say that is what it is though right away. I’d wait for more confirmation with more circles with dark rings around the edges of the circles as you’d want to chop any affected leaves and use a neem oil spray.

They are lightening up on the color pretty good. Serrated edges. If you can measure Lux it might help determine if your intensity is too high on the lights.

Are all the leafs yellowing at the top of the plants and less underneath? I mean, the ones obviously taking the Nitrogen redirect? If so, it could be light burn.

Bdubs · Jul 30, 2023

If you have your nutrients on point and all your leaves keep yellowing, it could be light burn. Minor, but if she is deficient in N and a bit light burn, those top leaves will yellow more than the ones at the bottom of the plant. We know it is stripping N from a few down there but are all the top leaves fading out?

Bdubs · Jul 30, 2023

It may not be from heat but it could be from intensity. Do you have a Lux meter to check with a Lux chart to determine if you are within the right Lux for the phase of growth? A phone app can do that for you too. If the Lux meter you download displays in the 000 or 100s, add 2 zeros and that’s your Lux. You want 35,000-80,000 for flower. 350-800. If you are on the higher end and out of the range, it may be you need to take the intensity of the light down, Lux is an intensity meter essentially. As you’ve said, maybe these girls just don’t or cannot handle more light. So if you are near the maximum 80,000/800 it may help to reduce the intensity.

GanjaJack · Jul 30, 2023

I run the GH 3 part series.. It's what I am used to.

What I do..... I put them in to flower using the Vegging feed schedule and will continue to use that schedule until I see hairs in multiple locations on the plant.

Then I will flip to "transition to flowering". until I see actual buds forming up.

Then I will switch to "full bloom"...

My plants are usually pretty consistent in the amount of time the full transition from veg to flower takes place.

Indoor under 2x 450w LED and 1000w HPS.

I end up with between 12 oz's and a 1lbs per plant, most times towards the smaller amount.
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Bdubs said :It may not be from heat but it could be from intensity. <---- YEAP!!!! I mentioned this on another thread and it was the first thing I thought when I saw this pictures...

To me they always look like they are bunching their butt cheeks together when they are getting to much LED light...

Their growth gets... not "stunted"... but, more like "locked", because as soon as you correct the brightness of the light, the plants respond pretty rapidly and look like they "unclinch their butt cheeks" and unlock....

I ALWAYS worry that my plants are going to stretch toooo much when I first start seedlings with LED, I keep the lights about 4 ft off the top of the plants, dimmed ALL the way down...

And then about the 3rd week, in SEEDLING stage, I am pushing the envelope at near 100%, unless I start seeing them clinching... Then I turn it down by 50% and then come back in a day or two and bump them up half way....

The plants respond rapidly enough,(if you know your plants you will know what to look for as far as their being "happy happy") to light adjustments that you can get a little entertainment out of it.

Turn them up til they scream... Then turn them down til they whimper. lol!

Trash_2002 · Jul 30, 2023

IsanFarmer said:
What do you mean exactly? Start using the Grow Big earlier next time or extend the veg period? If you look at the photos closely you'll be able to see those yellow patches I mentioned yesterday.

Now I zoomed like hell, that little spots?
Could be a start of calcium deficiency, up your calmag to 9ml/12L.

Now with that light green photos it's difficult to see if there's also light burn happening.

Yep what ganjajack said, start your flowering with veg nutrients than after 2weeks approximately switch to bloom schedule to prevent mid-late flower N deficiency, this way the plants stock more N to use mid to late flower, when they start pulling from the leaves stock instead of soil.

Don't spray anything in flower, never, ever.

Bdubs · Jul 30, 2023

Without a known use and nutrient chart to assist in your feed mix, it is so difficult to manage all the deficiencies. You’re working it man and that’s the important part. Because once you get smashed with problems and chasing and finding them, you will gain a whole new level of confidence in the nutrients you’re using and whatever you’re putting in your mix.
If you are going rogue with products and using all sorts of different supplements like molasses, I feel it is overstepping beginner rules of the KISS rule. To be successful you need to KISS before you can add advanced techniques, especially when working feeding or using soils that are not basic.
As a beginner, it is very difficult to get things just right if you don’t have a basic setup and work up from there. I know this because I like starting advanced and back step. I spent months destroying plants to get everything right.

You sir are doing great though, no discouragement from what you got going. They are going and you will smash your process. Keep it up.

Bdubs · Jul 30, 2023

I am running GH products and use their charts, of course adjusting based on what the plants are telling me.
You can baseline their charts to anything though and in the respects of cal mag, if you look at GH charts, they use the same cal mag all the way to late bloom and then half it. Then cut it out at ripen phase. Find the amount of cal mag to keep them happy and use that amount in the mix until that time.
But this where I said when not using a known nutrient regiment of products, things get hairy and you have to do more adjustments as the plants tell you.

GanjaJack · Jul 30, 2023

Bdubs said:
I am running GH products and use their charts, of course adjusting based on what the plants are telling me.

I seem to have it lucky in that...... I just followed the simplest directions on the bottle and use 5 gallon hempy buckets, in a 7 foot tall grow. Years ago when I started out, it was a bit short because of 1000w hps heat, but in the basement it's cool enough to "just eek by"..

Once my plants hit 2 foot, they DEVOUR an entire 5 gallon bucket of water, so, I never PH them, except EVERY now and then, like once a year...

I will check the PH of the solution in a 5 gallon bucket of water, just to make sure nothing was switched at manufacturer..

But other than that, when I run the schedule as normal, the PH is allowed to do whatever it wants without ever adjusting for it.

Ohhh by the way... when I PH my plain water(just to make sure something isn't mess with my water) it ends up being about 8.9.... heh we have "Rock water"... When we threw water balloons at each other it would leave bruises it's so hard....

But, when I finally get to 3 TBS of BLOOM to 1 gallon of water... it adjusts the PH down to about 5.8.... RIGHT where it should be.

I find as it eats up the nutrients and gets to the bottom... MOST times the solution at the bottom will be VERY acidic...

But everynow and then a strange occurence of a HIGH PH will come out and am never sure why.

GanjaJack · Jul 30, 2023

My apologies.... I meant to say....

My plants will devour an entire 5 gallon bucket of water, filled RIGHT to the BRIM.... every other day.. most times there will be a few inches of "stuff" in the bottom of the bucket.

I don't get rid of it, IMO, there are important bacterials that have built up and to completely dispose of the solution would kill off the bacteria.

I learned this as a person who keeps fish tanks... So it made sense to me..

j1sonbrother · Jul 30, 2023

I run GH 3 parts only, no more extra calmag/PK boosters.

I had tried with Lucas/Useless/6-4-4(in Veg) formulas that results were great.

For Lucas u get 122(N)-99(P)-171(K)-68(Mg)

Some folks like to say "calmag~calmag~ epsom salt ~booster",But once u dailed in Gh 3parts, it's gonna kill all nuts,need more calcium ? added more micro bottle, need more magnesium? added more bloom bottle.

I admit coco&LED require more calcium and magnesium, but gh3parts can completely fix these shit issues.

I like Mel'Frank insider guide formula with Gh 3parts, which was suitable for 1000W HID&HPS&LED.

From Seedling to the second flowering weeks(transition week), I feed 20micro-14bloom-4grow (

348[N]~98[P]~253[K]~70[Mg], and go with 5micro/15 bloom 3 grow (99N~103P~209K~73Mg) to the last couple of weeks.

Fox farm line is great, but the price are way too high.

Now, I just switch to Athena dry salts.

GanjaJack said:
I run the GH 3 part series.. It's what I am used to.

What I do..... I put them in to flower using the Vegging feed schedule and will continue to use that schedule until I see hairs in multiple locations on the plant.

Then I will flip to "transition to flowering". until I see actual buds forming up.

Then I will switch to "full bloom"...

My plants are usually pretty consistent in the amount of time the full transition from veg to flower takes place.

Indoor under 2x 450w LED and 1000w HPS.

I end up with between 12 oz's and a 1lbs per plant, most times towards the smaller amount.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bdubs said :It may not be from heat but it could be from intensity. <---- YEAP!!!! I mentioned this on another thread and it was the first thing I thought when I saw this pictures...

To me they always look like they are bunching their butt cheeks together when they are getting to much LED light...

Their growth gets... not "stunted"... but, more like "locked", because as soon as you correct the brightness of the light, the plants respond pretty rapidly and look like they "unclinch their butt cheeks" and unlock....

I ALWAYS worry that my plants are going to stretch toooo much when I first start seedlings with LED, I keep the lights about 4 ft off the top of the plants, dimmed ALL the way down...

And then about the 3rd week, in SEEDLING stage, I am pushing the envelope at near 100%, unless I start seeing them clinching... Then I turn it down by 50% and then come back in a day or two and bump them up half way....

The plants respond rapidly enough,(if you know your plants you will know what to look for as far as their being "happy happy") to light adjustments that you can get a little entertainment out of it.

Turn them up til they scream... Then turn them down til they whimper. lol!

GanjaJack · Jul 30, 2023

j1sonbrother said:
I run GH 3 parts only, no more extra calmag/PK boosters.

I had tried with Lucas/Useless/6-4-4(in Veg) formulas that results were great.

For Lucas u get 122(N)-99(P)-171(K)-68(Mg)

Some folks like to say "calmag~calmag~ epsom salt ~booster",But once u dailed in Gh 3parts, it's gonna kill all nuts,need more calcium ? added more micro bottle, need more magnesium? added more bloom bottle.

I admit coco&LED require more calcium and magnesium, but gh3parts can completely fix these shit issues.

I like Mel'Frank insider guide formula with Gh 3parts, which was suitable for 1000W HID&HPS&LED.

From Seedling to the second flowering weeks(transition week), I feed 20micro-14bloom-4grow (

348[N]~98[P]~253[K]~70[Mg], and go with 5micro/15 bloom 3 grow (99N~103P~209K~73Mg) to the last couple of weeks.

Fox farm line is great, but the price are way too high.

Now, I just switch to Athena dry salts.

Nice ass room man.... Mine is in a log cabin and looks very...... uh, "Rustic".

It's a former laundry room that has nice white reflective walls... Your plants are kept professionally.

I let mine just sprawl out lol.. It's a jungle sometimes... It makes me wonder how I keep from going under......

IsanFarmer · Jul 30, 2023

Bdubs said:
It may not be from heat but it could be from intensity. Do you have a Lux meter to check with a Lux chart to determine if you are within the right Lux for the phase of growth? A phone app can do that for you too. If the Lux meter you download displays in the 000 or 100s, add 2 zeros and that’s your Lux. You want 35,000-80,000 for flower. 350-800. If you are on the higher end and out of the range, it may be you need to take the intensity of the light down, Lux is an intensity meter essentially. As you’ve said, maybe these girls just don’t or cannot handle more light. So if you are near the maximum 80,000/800 it may help to reduce the intensity.

I use the Photone app so I'll measure the Lux tomorrow.

GanjaJack said:
I run the GH 3 part series.. It's what I am used to.

What I do..... I put them in to flower using the Vegging feed schedule and will continue to use that schedule until I see hairs in multiple locations on the plant.

Then I will flip to "transition to flowering". until I see actual buds forming up.

Then I will switch to "full bloom"...

My plants are usually pretty consistent in the amount of time the full transition from veg to flower takes place.

Indoor under 2x 450w LED and 1000w HPS.

I end up with between 12 oz's and a 1lbs per plant, most times towards the smaller amount.

Thanks for your advice, it's much appreciated.

Trash_2002 said:
Now I zoomed like hell, that little spots?
Could be a start of calcium deficiency, up your calmag to 9ml/12L.

Now with that light green photos it's difficult to see if there's also light burn happening.

Yep what ganjajack said, start your flowering with veg nutrients than after 2weeks approximately switch to bloom schedule to prevent mid-late flower N deficiency, this way the plants stock more N to use mid to late flower, when they start pulling from the leaves stock instead of soil.

Don't spray anything in flower, never, ever.

Sorry I missed the 12/12 bit, that was the giveaway! I will definitely use that strategy with my next run and I don't think I'm going to finish using these Fox Farm nutrients next time, I suspect they've been watered down.

j1sonbrother said:
I run GH 3 parts only, no more extra calmag/PK boosters.

I had tried with Lucas/Useless/6-4-4(in Veg) formulas that results were great.

For Lucas u get 122(N)-99(P)-171(K)-68(Mg)

Some folks like to say "calmag~calmag~ epsom salt ~booster",But once u dailed in Gh 3parts, it's gonna kill all nuts,need more calcium ? added more micro bottle, need more magnesium? added more bloom bottle.

I admit coco&LED require more calcium and magnesium, but gh3parts can completely fix these shit issues.

I like Mel'Frank insider guide formula with Gh 3parts, which was suitable for 1000W HID&HPS&LED.

From Seedling to the second flowering weeks(transition week), I feed 20micro-14bloom-4grow (

348[N]~98[P]~253[K]~70[Mg], and go with 5micro/15 bloom 3 grow (99N~103P~209K~73Mg) to the last couple of weeks.

Fox farm line is great, but the price are way too high.

Now, I just switch to Athena dry salts.

That's a great set up you have dude!

IsanFarmer · Aug 1, 2023

The plant that was showing signs of nitrogen deficiency only had this on the lower leaves but it is now spreading to leaves at the top as you can see in the first photo. The other photos are from a plant that has leaves that are browning along the edges and curling. Is this a potassium deficiency? I have to feed them in the morning so I'm hoping that raising the EC will alleviate this problem but if it doesn't what should I do?

rasterman · Aug 1, 2023

IsanFarmer said:
The plant that was showing signs of nitrogen deficiency only had this on the lower leaves but it is now spreading to leaves at the top as you can see in the first photo. The other photos are from a plant that has leaves that are browning along the edges and curling. Is this a potassium deficiency? I have to feed them in the morning so I'm hoping that raising the EC will alleviate this problem but if it doesn't what should I do?

I'm terrible at diagnosing these, which makes me a terrible grower unless I'm running living soil. But I think you're right that it isn't a nitrogen deficiency. I've seen that in my own grows and have treated it with 4.9.3 organic fertilizer from Happy Frog.

FoxFarm 4# Happy Frog Fruit & Flower Organic Fertilizer New for 2019 https://a.co/d/0LJ1x4q

Trash_2002 · Aug 1, 2023

yep up the feed to ~1.8, and forget about bringing the light closer, it will make the deficiency worse.
Have any lights off flash on photos of the plants? if possible :-)

IsanFarmer · Aug 1, 2023

Trash_2002 said:
yep up the feed to ~1.8, and forget about bringing the light closer, it will make the deficiency worse.
Have any lights off flash on photos of the plants? if possible :-)

Yes, first thing in the morning I'll take some. These photos when the lights are on are shite.

IsanFarmer · Aug 2, 2023

Some lights off photos from this morning just after they were fed with 4 litres of water each from 12 litres of water mixed with the Fox Farm trio and 9ml of CalMag at 1.8 EC and adjusted to PH 6.4

Trash_2002 · Aug 2, 2023

The buds are getting fatter by the day there! Nice!

That nitrogen deficiency is linked with too fast of a switch to only Bloom nutrients in flower.

There's only so much that can be done about it now, like I said is better to adjust your schedule for next cycle to avoid that , for now up the EC to 1.8 for weeks 6-7-8 than 1 week half nutrients and a last week water with molasses only.

That fade is normal after week 7-8 flowering tho, but starting at week 4-5 was a bit early. Thats why knowing our cultivars/phenotypes is so important.

Trash_2002 · Aug 2, 2023

If it's a 9 week phenotype give half strength week 8 and last week molasses with water double the normal amount, 8L/pot

Please help a novice in distress

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