Post Your UC Problems Here!

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farmer ed

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Hi Jimmyhoffa, I have been following your other grow and then ran across this notice of failure, I left you a post in your journal about your situation. I will stand behind anyone out there that agrees with the fact that you need to have a active bio soup in order to maintain order within the UCDWC. I have been growing in them for years, and just recently upgraded to Dan's modulated design cch2o, in Europe we always had recirculating designs, none as simple as this one and at the same time none as efficient as this design.

I have found that trying to keep water sterile is a non starter, keeping the system in bio tune with the right beneficials is the key to success. Once your system is dialed in you just need to maintain the colonies and provide the right foods for your bacteria. When you hit this level where you are feeding your beneficials, they will in turn feed your plants with their sub-ionic waste which is very bioavailable to your plants.

With the UCDWC, there really is no place for beneficials to colonize, so you will need to add a bioball, scumball or some biochar to your epicenter. This addition will give the beneficials an area to colonize which is not moving throughout the entire system. Raising the temp a bit will also help them to breed, they like water temps around 69+ they are very lazy at 65-66. Once they are thriving you will see the effects, it just takes a few days to get started.
 
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FatFreddysKat

Guest
Thats a goodpoint Seamaiden...shocking and kissing dont mix!!!!!
Now, back to the show....Jimmy im getting some moms grown up healthy for you and am assembling a clone list and making sure they get handled, but if you can get some before I can get up there, get them!!I will still gift some for you brother, and let your buddy know about the moms, probably a Grape Ape (sticky dense sweet grape goodness pheno), PurkleDawg(a local urkle crossed with an inbred urkle male crossed with a real deal Chemdog, something like that), Purple Diesel, and maybe some surprises as well.
Now get to gettin those ladies well and you'll get back on track my friend!!!
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
If you are out of cali Kodiak is a good source for BS as it has more in the bottle then Companion. JK
I run aero with bennies and it has been years since I have had any root problems.
Look for agri sources for your bennies as they are far cheaper.
Even though I was banned from another bucket maker for suggesting this, 70% rh is a good thing. Especially those going for trees.


TRICHODERMA HARZIANUM is another bio that helps protect the root zone
 
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UCtestn

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...


TRICHODERMA HARZIANUM is another bio that helps protect the root zone

JK, This looks like good shit. What other recommendations do you have to protect against root rot in RDWC? Are there any other protections your would recommend in general for plant health?
 
sky high

sky high

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JK always seems to know of a cheaper source...but here's a great product full of trichoderma.



interesting approaches. Definitely food for thought. After my own massive UC failure and huge setback....I've yet to have the nads to toss all my eggs into the UC basket again. I'd love to learn how to tame this beast and run a good live schedule through it.... so THANKS for the info folks...

s h
 
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RMCG

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The BioWorks RootShield WP

RootShield is a preventative biofungicide and should be applied to “clean” plants. Diseased plants should be chemically treated first, since the aggressively growing active ingredient, strain T-22 only grows on the outside and does not enter the plant tissue.


This looks promising too:

RootShield is compatible with fertilizers, algaecides, insecticides, disinfectants, miticides, herbicides, growth regulators, and nearly all fungicides.



I could only find 4oz consumer tubs of the WP in a few minutes searching.
 
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MediMary

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is that what you like to use JK, Kodiak(Bacillus subtilis Strain GBO3), is that the strain that takes over everything?
 
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MediMary

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Has anyone ever tried using 50% h202 in these systems, added every 3/4 days?

Also ale posted this, very interesting as well.


aleYarok found this tidbit(+1), thought I would post if anyone in here missed it,

Hey there, this is Chris the owner of groovyhydro. I was alerted to this thread and the thread you kindly posted about trying hydro-fungicide that you got from us. My heart sunk when I read of your problem.

In my opinion, what happened was that the portion of stem between the fully saturated root area, and the green stem that is dry and in the light was afflicted with fusarium or a similar pathogen. This usually forms a ring around the stem that is only an inch or two high, and eats through the first few layers stem. It is the same effect as when people intentionally remove a 12 inch gap of bark from a tree to kill it. Even though the inside of your stem was fresh and white, the outer layers that actually transport water & nutes looked orangey-brownish which if they are means they are dead and not doing their job.
An easy way to think of it is this - suppose you skinned your knee and you didn't want to get an infection. You could soak your feet in alcohol all day but your knee could still get infected.

Any sanitizing agent can only do its job if it is continuously saturating all neccessary portions of the plant. For this reason our simple rule of thumb is: "If its in the dark, keep it wet, if its in the light, keep it dry". By wet, we mean bathed in hydroponic solution with your choice of sanitizing agent. Any of the 3 you used would have done the trick, Physan20, Bleach, and Hydro-fungicide all are powerful sanitizers. The thing is, they have to be flowing completely around anything thats going to be wet in the first place. There is that spooky in between part of the stem that is in the dark, and its damp from humidity, but its not soaking in or getting sprayed by solution. That is why Sam the Skunkman probably reccomended Ozone to sanitize the air, I would imagine you have a tremendous air volume from the bubblers coming up through the pot which brings humidity and airborne pathogens with it, but NOT physan\bleach\hydro-fungicide.

Anyway Senior Krunch, my condolences go out to you, if there is anything we can do to help, just email or PM me. We are here for you and everyone else. Our business stance is that success will come as a by-product of providing a true solution to people.

If anyone else has any questions about the product, of course feel free to ask it here or by PM or email.

Just to set the record straight about Hydro-Fungicide, I will post a few facts in case anyone is curious.

It is manufactured in Australia by Sanda Products.

Outside of Australia, there are 2 companies that sell it.

In Canada, it is sold in the DNF line, and labeled 'Hydro-Sparkle'. They use to call it by its original name of Hydro-Fungicide until Canadian Customs had a problem with the word Fungicide appearing so they re-named it.

In the USA it is sold exclusively by Groovy Hydro. We do not alter the ingredients in any way, we process and bottle it from concentrate just like everyone else and at the manufacturers dilution rate.

Lastly MrDizzle, we owe you for the idea of the "1-2 Punch". It was you that discovered the Physan20 actual rate of application for hydroponic reservoirs that got me to call Miral Products and speak to the owner Tom Whitehair. We want to provide a one-stop solution for disaster reservoirs that was essentially discovered by you MrDizzle. Therefore, if you want a free gallon of Hydro-Fungicide, PM me or email off groovyhydro.com an address and it goes out this week. You can compare it to your Hydro-Fungicide from a different source and authenticate its legitimacy.

This is the "1-2 Punch" as we documented it:

One-Two Punch Directions for a Nasty Reservoir

1 – Add Physan20 to your existing tank at a rate of one teaspoon per 15 gallons of reservoir. This comes out to 1ml of Physan20 for every THREE gallons in your tank. So divide your tank gallon capacity by 3, then add that many ml of Physan20. Run this tank for 3 days. Groovy set up a wholesale account with the manufacturer of Physan20 after we had a nice chat with the owner of that company. They are only 5 miles away from our office. We didn’t pull any punches, we asked what the application rate for MMJ Hydroponic reservoirs would be. The owner let us know that although Physan20 is a poison, in the dilution he recommended it would NOT be toxic to the plants.
Furthermore, he let us know that Physan20 biodegrades into NITROGEN in 3 to 7 days depending on the tank conditions. Therefore he stated that plants will not concentrate and store the toxic elements of Physan20 and will pose no threat upon consumption of the MMJ Crop. For this reason we recommend running the initial dose 3 days, then draining the reservoir to eliminate any traces of Physan to ease your mind, and also to clear out any dead organic matter such as dead algae, fungus, bacteria, and dead root matter.
2 – Mix up a fresh reservoir of your regular nutrient schedule. Lastly, add in 2ml of Hydro-Fungicide per Gallon of your new reservoir. Add the same ratio to any top-off water you add, and replenish the full amount once a week if you haven’t changed your reservoir out yet.


The reason the Physan20 is great to use first ONLY IF your tank is nasty is that the Hydro-Fungicide manufacturers suggested use for a problem tank is an application rate of 20ml per GALLON the first day, decreasing each day by 2ml per gallon until you reach 8ml per gallon and continue that out until 10 days has gone by. This is a very large amount and we dont want to see anyone spend that much to clear up a problem when Physan20 can wack it much more efficiently. In the manufacturers defense, they do state that 'it may be best to clean the tank first'.
 
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FatFreddysKat

Guest
I sure like businesses taking time to help with solutions and concerns, that is rare these days.
 
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MediMary

997
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yes me too, +1 for chris from groovy, and Dan from UC.

I don't know if heath ever used anything for roots, but in a lot of grows he had that high flow top feed going to the plants, I wonder if thats why he has had so few problems, and possibly why doubleds didnt have as many problems.
Also Heath ran the water level much higher than most everyone here does, I have seen texaskid/and number of other respected members saying its better for root development, but then you have that spot chris is talking about where its just humid and not actually getting saturated with a sterilizer.

I really feel this may be one of the big problems people may be having, just a speculation on what I have read. but.

Yeah I like that Papa "the dizzle 1-2"
MRdizzle is one of my fav people on this whole site, great info, fun to read his threads, super helpful.


HEATH
"Ok now for the how to!, In the early nineties I was growing and experimenting with dripper systems, after running things for a while I noticed that if I increased the flow rate to the drippers the plants grew and flowered more quickly.

This led me to install bigger and larger bore dripper pipes, I had just modified one system before I went away for a week, when I came back the plants were all much larger as expected but what I didn't expect was the flow rate had been too high and as the roots had grown the roots had blocked the drain and were growing fully flooded! thats when I had a eureka moment and went and bought some brewing and builders buckets and started experimenting.

The basic idea is very very simple you basically have a bubbler bucket but instead of having the nutrients just sat in the tub you recirculate them at a high rate from a external rez so the nutrients are in continual motion.
Here is a Waterfarm bottom modified to recirculate the nutrients.
in this picture you can see the water entering the bucket from the right through a half inch fitting and exiting through a 1 1/2" fitting this picture shows nicely the sort of flow I like to have through the buckets.
water19.JPG
(Looks like much more water flowing that a UC system)"
The level in the rez is set so that the water level in the bucket is touching or a couple of inches above the bottom of the the inner bucket (the one with the holes drilled in it). The reason for this is I dont like cord roots (the type you see in bubbler bucket grows) to me this is wasting root space.

Here are some pics showing what I mean, these aren't my pics I am only using them to illustrate my point. If you look closely you can see that the roots nearest the bottom of the pot are like cords, this type of root develops when you have a gap between your nutrient level and the pot. I prefer not to have this type of root system as the cords do very little other than support the weight of the roots below.
16cord_roots1.jpg

16cord_roots.jpg



Here are the roots in a Aquafarm and as you can see they are quite different, this is due to the level being set higher than the pot, and the recirculating nutrient solution. You might notice in the next two pics you can see the water level on the pots. This is the type of root system you should strive for.

water9.jpg

water28.jpg


You can see it on the side of the blue container.


just found this .
his larger size top feed.

http://www.invalid.com/members/heath-robinson-34876-albums-heath-picture795874-dscf9161.jpg
 
UCMENOW

UCMENOW

1,095
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Super Bugs? Need to discuss this if we're going to be talking sterility

REPOSTED FOR FURTHER CONTEMPLATION

One of the inherent weaknesses in a "sterile" set up is the absence on life. It is this absence that can subject the plant roots to invasion by what equates to be the most resiliant and biocide resistant strains of pathogens.

A clean, mineral based nutrient run with homeopathic dosages of select beneficials is the most likely way to avoid DWC sudden death syndrome.

Sterility leaves a vacancy for disease organisms to fill....intro of bennies promotes the colonization of a plant symbiotic microbe which will out compete the pathogens....or at very least compete with them for territory in the root zone.

Bottom line.

***Root crown inoc with products like Great White and ZHO (Botanicare) which have myco properties which need constant root contact

***Aqueous inoc with bacillus Subtillus like Companion, Aquashield which can colonize in solution.

The rule of thumb in the UC with bennies is less is more, inoc without adding excessive biosolids. Its these biosolids that creat biofilms which cause anerobic layers which can lead to pathogen habitat.




Most relavent thing to consider.

Biocides will ultimately mutate the current pathogens that do exist into super strains of fusarium, phytophera, pythium, verticillium....whatever they might be. Very much like what has happened in hospitals with Staphylococcus infections becoming increasingly drug resistant.

Natural competition from indiginous beneficial microbes will keep these root diseases in check, keeping them from specializing into specimens that are evolved to resist antibiotic suppression.
 
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MediMary

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what exactly is excess biosolids? what makes the biosolids? more about biofilms?
Im googling, but not comprehending really?
is there a recommended dosage Daniel says for certain beneficial?
 
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RMCG

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what exactly is excess biosolids? what makes the biosolids? more about biofilms?
Im googling, but not comprehending really?
is there a recommended dosage Daniel says for certain beneficial?


Talking with UCMENOW earlier this month about crown feeding, he mentioned 1/8 - 1/16th strength 'teas' done with a sprayer, enough to saturate the media, but not enough to run into the res.


'Bio solids' would be chunky 'teas'. Strain, strain, strain!
'Bio film' would be the funk that grows from too much dripping into your res.
 
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MediMary

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I don't know what the funk you are talking about RMCG :) I understand the biosolid as you explained it, still a bit unsure on the funk that builds up, not super familiar with running beneficial, what does it look like?

also earlier it was mentioned by someone in the thread "there really is no place for beneficials to colonize, so you will need to add a bioball, scumball or some biochar to your epicenter. This addition will give the beneficials an area to colonize which is not moving throughout the entire system."
what do you think about this as an addition?

And I see that Dan broke it down to root crown inoculations and Aqueous inoculations, which one would trichoderma harzianum fall into?

So in theory could you run the water sterile and crown feed beneficials?
 
Onespark

Onespark

280
18
I added a UV light to my system when I started getting algae, it had no effect, it only really affects the water that is touching it for the moment then as soon as that water isnt touching the UV light it gets reintroduced to the algae. the only place I can see a UV filter being useful is inline from your water source so that the water going into the system hits the UV before it enters the UC

100% agree. Im running the merlin UV and RO into my main res tank and then filling system from there and it runs very clean.
 
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Farmer Jon

Premium Member
Supporter
412
18
I was up all night looking for a potential solution to the problem farmers are facing in RDWC systems specifically the Under Current system.
My search began looking for successful and failed grows utilizing RDWC. I was overwhelmed by the amount of people experiencing the same issue's i.e slime, foul smell, foam, and ultimately crop failure.
I read and re-read the details of these less than successful attempts, and I believe each of these failures have quite a bit in common. First off even the farmers who utilize some type of preemptive defense against the multitude of harmful microbes (this is a large list of microbes), fail to inoculate the solution/medium with any real variety of beneficial microbes. Most of the products intended for this purpose have a limited number of beneficial species present, of the billions of microbes present on this planet only a small number of them can be cultured (or are currently cultured) in a laboratory setting. This is the heart of the issue. Utilizing methods such as brewing teas will allow a much more diverse microbial solution teaming with beneficials not available in "store bought" inoculates.
The key to a preemptive defense is just that, building a rich, diverse, living army to defend against the slime driven evil of rot funk.

I found this tea recipe, it cheats by using store bought items to jump start the process:
Heisenbergs recipe-
Aquashield ($12) The product composition consists of: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens. This gives you a base population of beneficial bacteria.

ZHO Powder ($10) The product composition consists of: Glomus intradices, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus etunicatum, Glomus mosseae, Trichoderma harzianum, and Trichoderma koningii. This gives you a base populartion of beneficial fungi.

Ancient Forest EWC ($14) - Soil amendment provides a high diversity of microorganisms, including more than 35,000 species of bacteria and over 5,000 species of fungi.


The recipe is really simple. Start with non-chlorinated water. I make 2 gallons at a time, but you can easily adjust the additives for whatever amount you wish to make. Now put the water into a bucket and throw in a couple air stones. The more air the better. You want the water to be almost turbulent from the bubbles. Now add 15-30ml of aquashield and about 1/4-1/2 scoop of the ZHO powder. You will be breeding these into the billions so it doesn't really matter how much you start with. Now take an old sock or pantyhose and fill it with about 2 handfuls of EWC. Tie off the sock and place it in the water above an air stone, or better yet, feed an air stone down into the sock itself. If you want, you can just throw the EWC directly into the water and strain it out later with cheesecloth. Next add about a tablespoon of molasses to wake up the microbes and give them something to eat. You could also use any sort of carboload or bud sweetener. We will only be feeding the microbes in this tea; never add food for the microbes to the res itself. It's okay if the bennies in the res starve. You will be replacing them every few days. Now let the tea bubble at room tempeture for 48 hours. It can be used after 24, but will be more active and diverse at 48. You can now store the tea in the fridge where it will stay fresh for about 10 days. Once it starts to go bad it will develop an odor. If you ever detect an odor from your tea, throw it out and make a new batch.

Initially, add about 1 cup to your res for every gallon of water, and then add 1 cup total every 3 days after. Your water might get a little cloudy but your roots will stay white and stimulated. When you use tea and practice proper res maintenance you can feel confident your roots will be healthy. By breeding the microbes this way your products should last about 5x longer.

Some tips:
A Few Fungi Tips from the Experts

Tip #1

If you want to increase the diversity of your compost tea, we suggest adding a cup or two of garden soil. Better yet, if your compost tea recipe calls for fungal compost, include a cup or two of soil from a nearby forest.
By adding these additional soils, you're ensuring your tea is inoculated with a wide range of soil microbes. These soils are like a biological catalyst, or compost tea activator.

Tip #2

When we want to ensure we've got fungi in our tea, we will brew it, and then add spores of mycorrhizal fungi. Mycorrhizal fungi act as a wonderful inoculum to any fungal compost tea recipe. These fungi naturally form beneficial relationships with approximately 95% of all plant species. They aid in nutrient transfer to plants, and help to create better soil conditions. Here is a great site if you'd like more information on mycorrhizal fungi.
Tip #3

We can't claim this last tip to be our own. It comes from the incredible book, Teaming with Microbes, by authors, Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis. In it, Lowenfels and Lewis suggest you "give fungi a head start." Since it can be difficult to get fungi to multiple (they do grow in size, just rarely in number) during the compost tea brewing process, the authors recommend growing them prior to the brewing process.
To do this, you'll want to moisten a couple cups of compost (just damp, not dripping wet), and then put it in a light-resistant container. Then grind up some simple proteins (fungal foods), such as oatmeal, and mix them in with the moist compost. Cover partially with a lid, and then place in a warm, dark area. We typically put ours under our sink, or above our fridge in a cupboard. After about 3 days, you'll remove the lid, and find a bunch of fungal mycelia throughout the compost. You can now use this compost to brew your fungal tea.

Tip #4

Don't accidentally filter out your fungi (and nematodes) when straining your tea. When filtering your tea, be sure your screen is as close to 400 micrometers as possible. Paint strainers, from your local hardware store, work quite well for this function. Avoid using socks or pillowcases, since their fibers are too tight.

There are hundreds if not thousands of recipes around this is just one I thought could be used now (waiting for compost to cook takes awhile).

Some things that I may add are earth worm castings and fish hydro slate, perhaps some sea weed extract.

Here is some cut and paste info:
Taken from Cannabis . com

Introduction to the Root Zone

Plant roots are arguably the most important part of a plant, and are also one of the most easily damaged. Root problems and disease are the most common source of problems for growers. If you want to maximize the the health and ultimate yield of your plants, it is wise to have a clear picture of the crucial activites going on at the root zone.

Roots are made up of tough, fibrous tissues containing cellulose, hemicellulose, and lignin which branch into the soil mass (or grow media,) anchoring a plant firmly. Their basic functions are critical for plant survival: they absorb water, oxygen and minerals, and they conduct these to where they are needed. With a strong and healthy root zone, plants are able to access what they need for vigourous growth. Without a healthy root system, your plants are doomed to be weak and spineless, or even worse, dead.

A healthy root zone is a continuously growing one. In many plants this cycle includes the natural death of older roots and the production of new ones. This cycle of death and regeneration is often mistaken by growers as a sign of disease, but so long as there are new roots developing, some root death should not be a concern.

Root Zone Health and Color
A young plant root system should have lots of white furry root tips everwhere. A healthy mature root system will be strong and fiborous and will have a thick root mat. If the roots are cream or yellow on top of the mat, they should still have many white root tips underneath at the bottom.

Thick, fat, white furry roots are what you most want to see - they are absolutely indicative of healthy root growth. Be aware however that the color of a nutrient solution will stain the roots, turning them yellow or brown. This is also true of many nutrient additives. Older, more mature plants will have a darker cream-colored root system, and some plants just tend to have a natural color pigment.

Root Zone Temperature
The temperature of the root zone and the temperature of the nutrient solution can have a major effect on the healthy growth and appearance of the root system. In general the temperature should be between 68 and 72 degrees farenheit. Colder or warmer conditions can cause poor and stunted root growth, as the roots don't want to grow into the unhospitable nutrient solution. Major root death can occur in even brief periods of cold or heat stress. Poor temperature conditions leave the door open to root disease.

Oxygen at the Root Zone
Lack of oxygen at the root zone is the leading cause of root death. Roots NEED oxygen. Roots should never sit in stagnant or ponding nutrient solution - make sure the trays are tilted and supported to drain completely. Lack of oxygen can also be caused by decomposing organic material in the nutrient solution or trays - this material should always be removed. . Another problem can be too many plants competing for too little oxygen. These problems are worsened by high root zone temperatures.

Nutrient reservoirs should always be aerated by and air pump and air stone. You can never have too much oxygen, so the more and stronger air pumps used, the better. We have had great succes adding air stones to the growing trays themselves, to supplement the root zone area with addtional oxygen. Some growers use H202 to add additional oxygen, as well.

EC/ TDS & pH
A nutrient strength level that is too high can be toxic to the root zone and will cause poor and stunted growth. At extreme levels, a too high level will cause actual death in the root zone. It is best to increase nutrient levels gradually over time rather than suddenly and all at once.



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Root-Microbe Symbiosis

The root zone of a plant is buzzing with life-essential processes of incredible complexity. This zone of intensive activity is called the rhizosphere. The root itself makes up part of the rhizosphere (the endorhizosphere), while the root hairs, mucigel, and root cells that have sloughed off constitute the ectorhizosphere.

The plant actually grows its own garden of microbes, along the root surfaces. To do this, the light energy captured from photosynthesis in the leaves is channeled down the stem through the phloem vessels and out through epidermal cells to the external root surface. Incredibly, up to 80% of the total plant energy--but usually 12 to 40%--is exuded as mucigel into the ectorhizosphere as carbohydrates, amino acids, and other energy-rich compounds. As the roots grow, the roots slough off dead cells which form a slimy covering and help the roots to slide easily as they grow. This slime is a food source for many millions of beneficial microbes. This food doesn't stay around long. Billions of bacteria, fungi, algae, actinomycetes, protozoa, and other microbes feed upon this exudate.

Those Phenomenal Mycorrhizae
Especially important are the mycorrhizal fungi which extend their thread-like hyphae from inside cortex cells out into the soil for several millimeters. They extend the feeding volume of the root by 10 to 1,000 times or more for most plant species (the cabbage family being a notable exception), and extract and carry nutrients back to the root. So important are they that scientists sometimes call the root zone the mycorrhizosphere. Pine trees will hardly grow without these fungi. There are two types- ectomycorrhiza and endomycorrhiza. Ectomycorrhiza are found in association with forest trees such as pines, eucalyptus and dipterocarps, while endomycorrhizal associations are formed in horticultural, forest and agronomic crops

Feeding On Exudate
In return for the release of nutritional substances from plant roots, microbes themselves produce chemicals that stimulate plant growth or protect the plant from attack. These substances include auxins, enzymes, vitamins, amino acids, indoles and antibiotics. These complex molecules are able to pass from the soil into plant cells and be transported to other parts of the plant, with minimal change to chemical structure, where they can stimulate plant growth and enhance plant reproduction. They may also play a role in enhancing the nutritional composition of the plant. The types of molecules released are specific for a variety of plants grown under certain conditions, forming in effect a unique chemical signature. As these molecules are released into the rhizosphere, they serve as food and growth stimulants for a certain mix of microbes.

The USDA Agricultural Research Service, and other scientists have shown that for each plant species, this characteristic chemical soup stimulates the development of a select, beneficial company of root-dwelling microbes. This microbial population colonizes the root zone, producing certain chemicals that inhibit the growth of pathogenic species. These organisms are also instrumental in supplying the plant’s unique nutritional needs .

The rhizosphere is always functioning for the plant whether it is growing in a field, in a pot, in a hydroponic media, or even in a lake or ocean. The details of function may differ somewhat, but the principles are the same in order for the plant to survive.


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Some of the main Beneficials at the Root Zone

Bacillus
Several varieties of Bacillus (i.e Bacillus megaterium) have been found to play a role in the conversion of unavailable forms of phosphates into plant available forms. In natural settings they can provide near 10% of the available phosphorous in the soil solution. With increased levels of plant available phosphorous, Bacillus strains become less effective. However, if the Bacillus can sustain as a back up it may continue to provide hungry blooms with phosphorous if it should become otherwise unavailable or “locked out”. This bacterium is of special interest to organic farmers who incorporate rock phosphate into the growing medium or if introduced through fertilizer teas, preparations, etc. Rock phosphate tends to be mostly unavailable, breaking down into plant available forms over time.

Certain forms of Bacillus are known to inhibit pythium and other pathogens. One of these is bacillus subtilis and is found in Hydroguard .

Mychorhizal Fung
Mycorrhizal fungi are especially effective in providing nutrients to plant roots. These are certain types of fungi that actually colonize the outer cells of plant roots, but also extend long fungal threads, or hyphae, far out into the rhizosphere, forming a critical link between the plant roots and the soil. Mycorrhizae produce enzymes that decompose organic matter, solubilize phosphorus and other nutrients from inorganic rock, and convert nitrogen into plant available forms. They also greatly expand the soil area from which the plant can absorb water. In return for this activity, mycorrhizae obtain valuable carbon and other nutrients from the plant roots. This is a win-win mutualism between both partners, with the plant providing food for the fungus and the fungus providing both nutrients and water to the plant. The importance of mycorrhizae in plant productivity and health has often been overlooked.It has been well documented that mycorrhizal plants are often more competitive and better able to tolerate environmental stress.Mycorrhizal technology has likewise made possible the production of inoculants to significantly improve the survival, growth and establishment of trees and crops.

M y•cor•rhi•zal - The symbiotic association of the mycelium of a fungus with the roots of a seed plant.

Nitrosomonas Bacteria
Species of aerobic bacteria which converts ammonia to nitrite. One of the critical bacteria in nitrogen cycle. Optimum pH range between 6.0 and 9.0, temperature 10oC - 34oC. Will acclimate to changes in water quality, but activity is reduced during acclimation which can lead to a build up of ammonia.
Nitrosomonas eat ammonia, they absolutely LOVE it. They Convert plant available ammonium (NH4) to unavailable nitrite (NO2).

Nitrobacteria
These bacteria convert the nitrite (NO2) resulting from the nitrification above into nitrate (NO3-), an important form of Nitrogen that all plants need.

Streptomyces
Bacteria that secrete a variety of compounds including antibiotics that prevent and control root zone pathogens. A closely related species of Streptomyces produces the antibiotic that we use, streptomycin. Many studies demonstrate the bacteria’s effectiveness at controlling root diseases, and select foliar diseases. An interesting consideration noted in one study is that they will also reduce levels of some nitrogen fixing bacteria in the soil.

Trichoderma
Some species of fungi that parasitize other fungi, such as Trichoderma, have been observed physically attacking and destroying pathogenic fungi. Strains of Trichoderma are found naturally occurring in many soils can play a role in the prevention and control of root pathogens, ultimately providing a healthier soil environment which can lead to higher yields. Some research suggests that the proteins in Trichoderma can degrade chitin, which is a structural component found in pathogenic fungi such as powdery mildew and in insects.

Some innovative propagation materials are inoculated with strains of Trichoderma.Many forms of coco coir contain it naturally. CANNA's Coco Growing Media is innoculated with it. If a healthy root environment is maintained, the bacteria will continue to colonize the roots and multiply in the growing media. The trichoderma help to form a protective layer around the root system, helping to fend off invading pathogens, etc.


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Root Health and Pathogen Control

In hydroponics we can promote a plant's rhizosphere capability by insuring it has the proper minerals, as well as a well aerated root zone to allow for good air and water movement . We also suggest using an organic amendment like Liquid Karma as well as a general enzymatic product like Hygrozyme or SensiZym from Advanced Nutrients that will encourage the proliferation of healthy rhizosphere microbes. You may also wish to use a root stimulator / stress reliever like CANNA Rhizotonic. It is a powerful, organic stress-reliever which stimulates new root development, increases resistance against disease and improves the vigour of plants.

Most root pathogens seem to be opportunistic -that is, they take advantage of weak and/or damaged roots. Thus the best defense is to keep roots healthy in the first place. In the beginning of this FAQ we went over some of the basics, those being temperature and oxygenation. We can also add a silica to the nutrient solution such as Silica Blast. Silica has been shown to greatly reduce plant death, root decay and yield losses caused by root disease. It does this by fortifying plant tissues against attack. The disease may still be present, but it is not able to do damage.

It has been found by numerous studies that plant roots colonized by a mixture of different bacterial and fungal species, are far more resistant to pathogenic attack. Mycorrhizal fungi form an impenetrable physical barrier on the surface of plant roots, varying in thickness, density and fungal species, according to the plant species, plant health and soil conditions. Ideally the beneficial microbes out-compete pathogenic species and form a protective layer on the surface of living plant roots. In soil it is usually only when the beneficial species of bacteria and fungi are killed by continuous soil disturbance and toxic chemicals that pathogenic species have an advantage.



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Using Good Microbes to fight the Bad Ones

There are a slew of new beneficial microbial products on the market, and they have a variety of effects ranging from breaking down nitrogen into useable forms to cleaning the roots to warding off negative microbiological pathogens. These good microbes also activate, enrich and stimulate the roots - they help to create beautiful fuzzy white root growth like you have never seen before.

The new array of products on the market can be confusing an misleading. We only sell products that we are familiar with and have personal experience with. Here are some of what we think are best.

Earth Ambrosia / Earth Nectar: a two-part mycorrhizal fungi innoculant - in liquid form

Down to earth mycorrhizal root innoculant: in powdered form for soil or coco

Piranha Piranha colonizes the root zone with 26 beneficial fungi (in powder form for hydro)

Tarrantula Bacterial blend of 57 microorganisms, with 1.4 billion Colony Forming Units per gram

Voodoo juice Liquid solution consisting of five strains of bacterial microbes, one is a nitrogen fixer

Botanicare Hydroguard Water treatment and pathogen supressor made of four benefical bacteria: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens.


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The Other Route: Keeping the Reservoir Sterile

Some would argue that one of the strengths of hydroponics is its sterile environment, and the notion of exposing growing systems to bacterial and fungal organisms would be self-defeating, if not sacrilegious. These growers rely on sterile growing environments, strong disinfectants and a product like SM-90. Another option is Hydrogen Peroxide. Each of these offer their own protection and benefits. But NEITHER SM-90 or Hydrogen Peroxide works well with organic aditives in the reservoir. They do not work well together and SM-90 has also been known to react poorly with Superthrive.

In a sterile growing environment, your goal is to have a super clean reservoir. This is harder than it sounds. Folks who have been growing in the same area with the same equipment for years might find that they are suddenly having root problems when they never had them before. Or a new grower might begin having problems right from the beginning.

Keeping your reservoir totally sterile can work very well, but once you get a population of icky badness it will keep coming back again and again. Some pathogens such as pythium are almost impossible to get rid of completelely. No matter how many times you sterilize everything with a bleach solution, the problem returns. It can get very frustrating and expensive to constanly be battling. More and more innovative growers are moving toward a more wholistic approach of using good microbes in the reservoir.


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Root Rot and Pythium

"Root rot" is a generic name for several common opportunistic waterborne diseases that can seriously affect indoor and outdoor crops year round. "Pythium" is the name of one of these diseases and is also used as a generic term for several different root rot and stem rot fungus species (including Pythium, Verticillium, and Phytophthora, and Fusarium). The term “damping-off” is also often used and usually applies to disease in seeds, seedlings and clones.

Whatever you call them, these diseases attack the roots of a plant and can rapidly infect crops in all stages. Damage includes reduced yields and crop failure. Pythium is particularly damaging in recirculating hydroponic systems as they provide ideal conditions for rapid growth and spread of infectious spores; a single infected plant can breed and send spores to all the plants.
The best thing is to prevent root rot from ever taking hold in the first place. It is an opportunistic disease which means that it is looking for sick, injured or weakened plants. Pythium is almost impossible to 100% eradicate from an infected system; this involves starting completely over (with new parents, containers, equipment, etc). It is probably present even if you don't know it - just waiting for its chance to get in.

“The best preventative measure against Pythium attack is a healthy, rapidly growing plant as this is an opportunist pathogen and will enter at the site of tissue injury or if the plants are overly succulent, weakened or stressed for some reason. Often root damage during the seedling stage as plants are introduced to the hydroponic system is a danger time for Pythium infection. Pythium is of greatest threat during the seed germination and seedling development stage when plants are most vulnerable to attack, and adequate control and elimination of the pathogen during this stage is the best preventative measure of Pythium control in hydroponic systems. Strong healthy plants will develop resistance to Pythium attack during the seedling stage and this will prevent problems at a later stage of growth. “

Dr. Lynette Morgan, Growing Edge Magazine
"Nutrient Temperature, Oxygen and Pythium in Hydroponics"t http://www.hydromall.com/grower/pyth...droponics.html

How to Avoid a bad case of Root Rot
Monitor plants and roots frequently
Maintain a clean system – change and sterilize reservoir weekly.
Design your system to combat pathogens
keep your nutrient reservoir between 68 and 72F to maximize root growth, Dissolved Oxygen levels and inhibition of Pythium. 80 degrees and above will bring on a fast case of root rot.
Constant aeration – maintaining high dissolved oxygen levels inhibits pathogens and accelerates root growth
keep a lid on your reservoir to keep plant matter and light out
Maintain a low pH of 6.2 or less to inhibit pythium growth

Use prevention!! Use tank additives to give your roots the edge they need to grow strong and healthy!! Check out the Roots and Prevention section.


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Bacterial slime and other horrifying nasties

These are not the beneficial bacteria and fungi that we have already spoken about. These bacteria cause cloudy reservoirs, slimy build up, weird reservoir fuzz, gelatin growths and wild pH fluctuations. These are the reservoir monsters.
When these bad microbes are present at high populations and are happily feeding on organic matter, they use up just about all the oxygen in the nutrient solution, suffocating the plants. They release toxic substances as a biproduct of their life cycle. They also suppress the good microbes at the root zone and cause problems with nutrient uptake and plant growth.

Bacteria slime and cloudy reservoirs
Bacteria can make the water cloudy, but tend to produce more of a slime or jellylike, smelly mass in the system.If you have it, you will notice slimy reservoir walls and perhaps an oily slick on the water. Another symptom can be a foamy buildup in the reservoir. If left to their own devices, these bacterial growths will smother the roots, depriving them of oxygen. Some species of anaerobic bacteria thrive in an environment deprived of oxygen and can produce chemical metabolites, such as alcohols, aldehydes, phenols and ethylene, that are toxic to plant roots and to other microorganisms.

Other symptoms of bacterial infections can be fuzzy, cotton like growths, or the growth of fur. Just in case you are wondering, that white fuzzy growth you see at the tip of your roots is desireable. That is not bacteria - That is the good stuff - you should see tiny fine white hairs at thje roots.

All of these nasties require organic matter to feed on. They may be there as the result of a buildup of dead roots and leaves in the root zone, but usually they are the result of adding an organic product to the reservoir. If the conditions are just right, the bacteria will begin to thrive.

One option is to use no organic additives at all and to rely strictly on chemical nutrients based on fertilizer salts. We think a better choice is to continue using organic material, but also using an enzymatic addtive like Hygrozyme that will break down the unwanted organic matter in the reservoir . If you would like to use additives such as bat guano, compost or fish-based products, you might consider run to waste instead of a recirculating system.



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What to do if you have a bacterial or fungal infection

You will want to completely clean out your system - if you can, you should remove each plant, rinse it off, perhaps even dip it in an H202 solution. You should trim off any dead roots. you should then clean your entire system using a strong bleach or h202 solution. We suggest soaking everything in bleach for a few hours. You will definately want to soak your pump and any tubing in bleach. Make sure you rinse everything very well before putting the plants back in .

If your plants are damaged, you might want to run the nutrient solution at a lower concentration than usual. We highly recommend using an enzymatic addditive such as Hygrozyme (after everything has been cleaned&sterilized ...). . You should also run a stress relief additive like CANNA Rhizotonic. We always suggest using Liquid Karma , but if your problem is real bad, you might want to lay off the organics a little bit.

While your roots are really hurting, you may want to foliar feed your plants with Nitrozime or Dutch Master If you haven't already, you should read the section above about inncoulating your system with good microbes.

Keep an eye on your reservoir. Be prepared to clean it out regularly, as soon as any sign of a infections (cloudy water or wild pH fluctuations) occur.

Remember IT IS MUCH EASIER TO PREVENT a pathogenic attack than it is to ddeal with it once it has occured!

I have been on non-stop research mode...more info to come.
I apologize for the size of this post, if you have been keeping up with my journal you know i'm about to embark on a RDWC venture of my own and failure is not an option.
FJ
 
R

RMCG

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I don't know what the funk you are talking about RMCG :) I understand the biosolid as you explained it, still a bit unsure on the funk that builds up, not super familiar with running beneficial, what does it look like?

also earlier it was mentioned by someone in the thread "there really is no place for beneficials to colonize, so you will need to add a bioball, scumball or some biochar to your epicenter. This addition will give the beneficials an area to colonize which is not moving throughout the entire system."
what do you think about this as an addition?

And I see that Dan broke it down to root crown inoculations and Aqueous inoculations, which one would trichoderma harzianum fall into?

So in theory could you run the water sterile and crown feed beneficials?


Put some guano's in a bucket of water, bubble it for a week. Observe the funk.

Roots in the UC fill the bucket, why wouldn't they colonize there?

Yes, sterile res, root crown benes. Although I do like the sound of aqueous bennies to thwart rampant growth of super nasties...

Maybe UCMENOW can paraphrase our earlier convo? Or I can try and not mangle it?
 
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