Road Kill Skunk - Ester Alcohols, Train-wreck and the Catpiss Connection

[Backyard_Boogie]

I know what you are talking about that ammonia piss carcass

My first good run is pretty much spot on to your story, my buddy gave me some seeds said the bag said purple kush on it...after harvest it was loud...but the carcass ammonia smell I almost have narrowed down to the curing process.

I didn't know how to cure just so happened it was rainy and I had to pick my buds to prevent bud rot, actually had 1 bud that started to have issues so picked them...the leaves had yellowed and were falling off I was starting to freak out not knowing that was part of good ripening just kinda hoping it was. Well I was drying them on a screen with a fan pointed indirectly...at the hint of some crisp on the outside I threw it into gallon bags and began to burp it. THIS IS WHEN I FUNKED UP the weed. Went out drinking. Slept in the next morning woke up like SHIT! I had been burping every 4 to 6 hours. This time I had went easily 12 maybe 16 hours. I opened the bag moisture just came billowing out toward me and almost this musty moldy smell I thought damn I screwed up. I squeezed the bag in and out just refreshing the air...it just kept getting funkier and funkier...

Eventually the rot moist smell turned to the ammonia carcass smell. Something about pushing the buds a little longer in the burp stage and just letting them sit in their own funk and ferment a bit just really takes it up a level...I think that's the part where this happens...

Everyone says this. Many people keep attributing the ammonia smell to a bad wet cure job. What I will say about this is YES its possible that a bad cure job can result in ammonia smells. But I am 100% positive that there used to be strains available that had a wicked ammonia smell naturally in their terpenes. I know this because I grew them 20 years ago and the plant smelled like strong skunky ammonia or rubbing alcohol when it was fresh. You could handle a frosty nug when the plant wasn't even chopped yet and your fingers would reek like that skunky funky ammonia smell. Im sure of this. It was genetics but basically it's all gone extinct now.

 

[Leeboy]

I’m sure a lot of us that grew 25 years ago were paranoid from the smell , and even with a large charcoal filter , we still could smell it out on the street . Now we just pump fruity tooty into the air

 

[shaganja]

I’ve had my eye on the balkh afghani for a while! I’m very interested to see how it goes for you, please keep us updated if you can.
I’ve never grown a Sativa before, but the south and Central American sativas seem very interesting. Especially if you believe old school skunk came from those mixed genetics back in the day.

Yup, I'll keep updating on this thread.

 

[DrToboggan]

I don’t ever recall ammoniated bud when I was younger, but it’s got me interested. A lot of biogenic amines STINK. From ammonia, to fish, rotting meet, and even feces (skatole). I wonder if amines are another class overlooked besides thiols?

On another note, I pulled out the single 70s Afghani female from Mr. in trouble. She has a dank skunky nose from a few feet away and a sweeter smell up close. She’s looking very indica.

 

[Justlovetogrow]

I don’t ever recall ammoniated bud when I was younger, but it’s got me interested. A lot of biogenic amines STINK. From ammonia, to fish, rotting meet, and even feces (skatole). I wonder if amines are another class overlooked besides thiols?

On another note, I pulled out the single 70s Afghani female from Mr. in trouble. She has a dank skunky nose from a few feet away and a sweeter smell up close. She’s looking very indica.
View attachment 1337272View attachment 1337273

She looks as though she has wpm mate?

 

[DrToboggan]

She looks as though she has wpm mate?

Good eye, but it’s hard water residue!

 

[SpacemanSpuff]

This is awesome, thank you!

I grew up in the 90’s in Upstate NY and there was definite Skunk around then (not just 80’s and before). There was actually something called Thompkins County skunk that was supposedly bred by Cornell students but I can’t verify this. I got to smoke some which was very skunky, and I can vividly remember pointing out suspected grows while walking around with my friends because we were like “what are the chances that a skunk sprayed this house 4 nights in a row?”

I’m actually more excited about the catpiss pheno of the SSH! I experienced a strain while I was at Cornell in 2000 from a friend who was from Woodstock. She gave me the weed which she had originally lost behind her couch for a couple of months. By the time I got it it was very dried out and the smoke was a bit harsh because of this, but boy was the high fantastic. When my friend gave it to me she promised me that her cat had not pissed on it, and also said that it was her brother’s homegrown called Wacky Woodstock. I have been hunting this strain for years now, and had suspected that it was either a SSH pheno or a Piff/NL5Haze pheno. Looking forward to hitting up the old school chronic guy for some ssh catpiss.

Thanks again!

 

[DrToboggan]

This is awesome, thank you!

I grew up in the 90’s in Upstate NY and there was definite Skunk around then (not just 80’s and before). There was actually something called Thompkins County skunk that was supposedly bred by Cornell students but I can’t verify this. I got to smoke some which was very skunky, and I can vividly remember pointing out suspected grows while walking around with my friends because we were like “what are the chances that a skunk sprayed this house 4 nights in a row?”

I’m actually more excited about the catpiss pheno of the SSH! I experienced a strain while I was at Cornell in 2000 from a friend who was from Woodstock. She gave me the weed which she had originally lost behind her couch for a couple of months. By the time I got it it was very dried out and the smoke was a bit harsh because of this, but boy was the high fantastic. When my friend gave it to me she promised me that her cat had not pissed on it, and also said that it was her brother’s homegrown called Wacky Woodstock. I have been hunting this strain for years now, and had suspected that it was either a SSH pheno or a Piff/NL5Haze pheno. Looking forward to hitting up the old school chronic guy for some ssh catpiss.

Thanks again!

I popped a few of the ssh bx4 freebies he gave me. I’ve never grown it, so I’m not sure what to expect. I’ll update as they get bigger.

 

[MDK]

Very interesting you mention this story. I don’t know for certain, but I suspect a wetter controlled microbial fermentation may bring out the funk from cannabis. Why? A lot of the funky molecules are locked up as prenylated glutathione, or acyl COAs, and need enzymatic degradation to be released.

I’ve grown and cured tobacco in the past, and hot wet fermentation is the key to turning brown crunchy tobacco from bland leaves into delicious spicy cigar leaf. It’s also a nasty process that gives off tons of ammonia as the albumins breakdown.

I don’t know what the parameters will need to be for cannabis, it’s a fine line between microbial fermentation and composting. I may be wrong, but I will test it out on my next harvest. Thank you for sharing!

You got the technical explanation for it i think. I always just said the bud has to sit in its own funk and hang out way longer than most are comfortable with because after all it's make it or break it when you harvest.

Hope to hear results I'm going to have to keep look. Worth atleast doing on a couple buds in a bag...maybe a half or so to give it some other buds to sweat it out with.
Another curing trick I've developed over about 10 years of guerrilla growing is I use a gallon zip lock bag...roll the buds in there down tight...zip it up leave the corner cracked then suck the rest of the air out with my lungs to tighten it down not quite as tight as vacuum sealing. This will draw the buds in making them more dense...some may dislike that it will smash and keep some trichomes on the bag...but the trichs on the bud will sort of smash as well and look absolutely massive like diamonds...you can always then harvest the stuff from the bag with a solvent for concentrates

 

[DrToboggan]

You got the technical explanation for it i think. I always just said the bud has to sit in its own funk and hang out way longer than most are comfortable with because after all it's make it or break it when you harvest.

Hope to hear results I'm going to have to keep look. Worth atleast doing on a couple buds in a bag...maybe a half or so to give it some other buds to sweat it out with.
Another curing trick I've developed over about 10 years of guerrilla growing is I use a gallon zip lock bag...roll the buds in there down tight...zip it up leave the corner cracked then suck the rest of the air out with my lungs to tighten it down not quite as tight as vacuum sealing. This will draw the buds in making them more dense...some may dislike that it will smash and keep some trichomes on the bag...but the trichs on the bud will sort of smash as well and look absolutely massive like diamonds...you can always then harvest the stuff from the bag with a solvent for concentrates

It’s very interesting to hear about your bag method, sounds similar to “cob curing” if you have heard of that.

I think I will try went fermenting some fresh bud under CO2. I have a vacuum chamber for making extracts, and it would be really easy to put some fresh herb in there then purge it with CO2. The CO2 will displace the oxygen and keep mold from growing, while allowing certain bacteria to grow. I’m still a few weeks out from my next harvest, but this has me excited!

 

[MDK]

It’s very interesting to hear about your bag method, sounds similar to “cob curing” if you have heard of that.

I think I will try went fermenting some fresh bud under CO2. I have a vacuum chamber for making extracts, and it would be really easy to put some fresh herb in there then purge it with CO2. The CO2 will displace the oxygen and keep mold from growing, while allowing certain bacteria to grow. I’m still a few weeks out from my next harvest, but this has me excited!

That sounds pretty bad ass...I was lookin onto a vacuum pump and blast tube set up. I want clean stuff though so the part that has me doin more research is the dewaxing process and how to add a chamber for that into a closed loop cycle for a relatively cheap price for home use

In mean time I was going to buy a heat press to make rosin but now, I wanna know what you are on! Lol

 

[DrToboggan]

That sounds pretty bad ass...I was lookin onto a vacuum pump and blast tube set up. I want clean stuff though so the part that has me doin more research is the dewaxing process and how to add a chamber for that into a closed loop cycle for a relatively cheap price for home use

In mean time I was going to buy a heat press to make rosin but now, I wanna know what you are on! Lol

Thanks man! I like to tinker so I have a vacuum chamber and pump. You can get both on Amazon for a decent price. I actually don’t even use extracts, but I had some dried out bud I needed to do something with so I figured “why not?”. Who knows how the wet fermented CO2 bud will turn out, but it will be fun to try. I’ll also cure some of the same bud the traditional way for a control. I have a decent microscope too, so it will be easy for me to identify any obvious mold contamination.

 

[SkunkyGrower]

Wow look at all these skunks being grown. I love to see it .

 

[shaganja]

Super bummer. Tried a different way to crack seeds. Used a tray, and rapid rooter plugs. Got a hand full of survivors. Lost a 3 pack of columbian gold. Growmie had a 10 pack, and said have fun! Good dude. Went back to paper towel. No openers... . I guess I'm not supposed to run her yet. Sometimes I feel the plant runs the show and we are just her tools....lol I will pick up another pack when the budget allows, but looks like I will concentrate on keeping the balkh and hunting for her sour pheno. Perhaps I will go backwards, and cross her to my Acapulco first. And the columbian last? Not sure yet...

 

[shaganja]

Baby balkhi

 

[Backyard_Boogie]

Super bummer. Tried a different way to crack seeds. Used a tray, and rapid rooter plugs. Got a hand full of survivors. Lost a 3 pack of columbian gold. Growmie had a 10 pack, and said have fun! Good dude. Went back to paper towel. No openers... . I guess I'm not supposed to run her yet. Sometimes I feel the plant runs the show and we are just her tools....lol I will pick up another pack when the budget allows, but looks like I will concentrate on keeping the balkh and hunting for her sour pheno. Perhaps I will go backwards, and cross her to my Acapulco first. And the columbian last? Not sure yet...

Are you warming up your paper towels when you use that method? If not you may want to invest in a small heating pad you wanna get those seeds sweating a bit in that ziplock. This will greatly increase your germination ratio. I put the ziplock baggie inside my tropical aquarium lid when Im germinating I let it sit in there for a few days it stays over 80 degrees in there and the seeds love it. They explode out of the shell almost every time.

 

[shaganja]

Are you warming up your paper towels when you use that method? If not you may want to invest in a small heating pad you wanna get those seeds sweating a bit in that ziplock. This will greatly increase your germination ratio. I put the ziplock baggie inside my tropical aquarium lid when Im germinating I let it sit in there for a few days it stays over 80 degrees in there and the seeds love it. They explode out of the shell almost every time.

I usually use paper towel on water heater. Works well. All the rest of my strains opened fine. I think the seeds are bad. I smell the seed funk.

 

[SouthernOhio]

Been going back and reading more of this thread and thought I would clear a few things up with some of the topics that has came up.
1st,
did Hells Angels grow weed?
I'm sure there were members growing seed from the weed they were transporting all over the continent. lol
Their role in all this was going around and dispensing and collecting weed grown on real farms by real "farmers" all across the country, mostly rural areas and around small towns.
Hell, about every rural county had their own personal weed varieties starting in the 60's and 70's. 20 years of growing the same weed, in the same area which was mostly Asian and South American strains etc.
Depended on what origin of shipment or personal collections is what the farmers were growing. (Family Heirlooms)
Then about 1978, the Afghani weed showed up. That one action changed the world of cannabis forever.
Farmers began figuring out to separate the males from the females to get a better quality plant and high.
Just imagine how many seeds were around before the Seedless flowers? Everyone was sitting on burlap sacks of tropical sativa seeds. They grew fine in Fla but not in short growing seasons unless you bred them for 10 or 12 years. Be nice to have those heirlooms today. That is 1/2 of the Skunks ancestry right there.
Pre-Skunk days where I lived people grew Columbian Gold and Red Bud, Acapulco Gold and Jamaican.
It was a big "free for all"(20ft plants in the woods and 100-1000 plants grown in farmers "corn fields" until about 1980(Just Say No)
began affecting areas.
Busts began happening more and more frequently, plus you had corrupt sheriffs and politicians involved.
Sheriff in our county had to bust his own "shine" operation and a 4 acre weed patch he was overseeing. lol
Anyways,
Yes, the Hells Angels did play a big role in dispersing the different and important genetics across this country.
Now, about the same time, Pablo Escabar was controlling the drug shipments coming into the Gulf Of Mexico. If you had the connections, you could get very good Columbian Gold that would knock your socks off and the tastes, was unique for the times. The terps were different and in different ratios than they are today.
I was there and experienced the "Real Skunk" era.
Not Cat Piss, or RKS, or Trainwreck or whatever people want to call it today.
It's a lesser version of those few years when the first "Real Skunks"(Afghani hybrids) landed in our backyards.
There's nothing I have purchased in the last 15 years that compares to the seed I bought back in 2001.
In 1998, A buddy I worked with from Ravenswood WV, gave me a small bag of flower and I grew the few seed out I found in it.
It was like I stepped back to 1984 all over.
You got near the plant in flower and it would make you sick at your stomach to get a big snoot full of the flower.
The plant was unique, it had "hairy" stems, even the leaves had a layer of what looked like felt. The trait still comes out in ours every now and then. We have lost a lot of what these plants had at one time that's lacking in today's genetics. I bred the males and females together and then began purchasing seeds and a 600 watt HPS light the winter after 9/11 happened.
It set me on the Skunk breeding path I've been on leading up to the seed I have today.
I've noticed, you breed one time out of the lineage and you lose a big chunk of it's ancestry.
I try and keep my seed away from the newer genetics. That's one of the reasons no one has this shit because first thing they do is wanna breed it to some Instagram famous "elite" name and pssst...the piss is gone.
These plants smell crazy! It's in the genetics, it's not something created by mold in a bag. lol
Anyone that had the opportunity to smoke the real skunk almost 50 years ago knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[MDK]

Been going back and reading more of this thread and thought I would clear a few things up with some of the topics that has came up.
1st,
did Hells Angels grow weed?
I'm sure there were members growing seed from the weed they were transporting all over the continent. lol
Their role in all this was going around and dispensing and collecting weed grown on real farms by real "farmers" all across the country, mostly rural areas and around small towns.
Hell, about every rural county had their own personal weed varieties starting in the 60's and 70's. 20 years of growing the same weed, in the same area which was mostly Asian and South American strains etc.
Depended on what origin of shipment or personal collections is what the farmers were growing. (Family Heirlooms)
Then about 1978, the Afghani weed showed up. That one action changed the world of cannabis forever.
Farmers began figuring out to separate the males from the females to get a better quality plant and high.
Just imagine how many seeds were around before the Seedless flowers? Everyone was sitting on burlap sacks of tropical sativa seeds. They grew fine in Fla but not in short growing seasons unless you bred them for 10 or 12 years. Be nice to have those heirlooms today. That is 1/2 of the Skunks ancestry right there.
Pre-Skunk days where I lived people grew Columbian Gold and Red Bud, Acapulco Gold and Jamaican.
It was a big "free for all"(20ft plants in the woods and 100-1000 plants grown in farmers "corn fields" until about 1980(Just Say No)
began affecting areas.
Busts began happening more and more frequently, plus you had corrupt sheriffs and politicians involved.
Sheriff in our county had to bust his own "shine" operation and a 4 acre weed patch he was overseeing. lol
Anyways,
Yes, the Hells Angels did play a big role in dispersing the different and important genetics across this country.
Now, about the same time, Pablo Escabar was controlling the drug shipments coming into the Gulf Of Mexico. If you had the connections, you could get very good Columbian Gold that would knock your socks off and the tastes, was unique for the times. The terps were different and in different ratios than they are today.
I was there and experienced the "Real Skunk" era.
Not Cat Piss, or RKS, or Trainwreck or whatever
There's nothing I have purchased in the last 15 years that compares to the seed I bought back in 2001.

My state just legalized and I was talking to a buddy about trying to find that late 90s early 2000s skunk again....you are one of the few I've seen talk about it...interested to see what you've been breeding!

 

[MDK]

Everyone says this. Many people keep attributing the ammonia smell to a bad wet cure job. What I will say about this is YES its possible that a bad cure job can result in ammonia smells. But I am 100% positive that there used to be strains available that had a wicked ammonia smell naturally in their terpenes. I know this because I grew them 20 years ago and the plant smelled like strong skunky ammonia or rubbing alcohol when it was fresh. You could handle a frosty nug when the plant wasn't even chopped yet and your fingers would reek like that skunky funky ammonia smell. Im sure of this. It was genetics but basically it's all gone extinct now.

Yea there is a difference, I know what you mean.