SCROG OUT OF CONTROL ... What did I do wrong... and how do I fix it?

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Eledin

Eledin

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monkey47... thanks for stopping buy... interesting approach.. if you got a camera... put up a close up images of "some of my tops are horizontal" good to see others methods.

eledin.. "One thing you must consider is that just because it was successful with one plant doesn't mean it will be with others,"

Yes I agree with that....I notice much difference from the mother to it's clones.. But so are lot of other differences in care.. clone vs seed... pot size and shape... prepared leaf soil vs garden soil (early month prior to trans)...no fertilizer used / fertilizers used... sun vs led... room vs tent (that's a big difference)...seasons effect... it was a lot to learn in a short time.. not the mechanics... the flow.... I would have to grow this female at least 3 more times before I began to think I've mastered her.... but then again who can master a female.... we are all slaves....
Hahaha I had to laugh at the female part because is so true... but they can help you straighten your life a little bit sometimes. Anyway back to the non constantly yaping females (sorry if a woman is reading, I know we are not perfect either); yes, it takes time and a first timer like you who does a lot of digging, because you are passionate about it, can feel overwhelmed at first, there's so many things to consider as you said... even people like me or others in this forum that have been growing for way longer than me have to learn how to deal with new strains, its a never ending learning process and I love it.
 
SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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Hey shitfoot... thanks for the input... You'll have to let me know if that change in kit helps you make an improvement in you VPD
If you have a vpd data chart similar to the previous page... post it... try for a whole week display.. I'd find that interesting...

Hey Eledin... Yes females can help you straighten out your life.. as well as straighten something else... but when they leave.. they make sure to fuck it back up... sometimes... even worse than it was....
 
PooToe

PooToe

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Hey shitfoot... thanks for the input... You'll have to let me know if that change in kit helps you make an improvement in you VPD
If you have a vpd data chart similar to the previous page... post it... try for a whole week display.. I'd find that interesting...

Hey Eledin... Yes females can help you straighten out your life.. as well as straighten something else... but when they leave.. they make sure to fuck it back up... sometimes... even worse than it was....
The C67 controls VPD fine. I want to upgrade so that when I have to travel I can still monitor the tent. The C69 Wifi will allow me to do that along with being able to control my humidifier.

I already harvested my run so I don't have it currently running. Gotta burn through a few pounds before I need to reup.
 
SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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MY 1ST SCROG DIARY...FLASH BACK UPDATE
PREVIOUSLY: SCROG OUT OF CONTROL



Remember the leader branch I snapped around day 3-22


1712066481301



Well about 4 days later

SCR 3 26 D


No tape.. no splint.. no fuss.. just left the little sucker alone...
(reminds of that rhyme: I is strong to the finish cause I eats me spinach...)

However today trying to bend a tall riser / cola it snapped really good... I can almost say I heard it.. So.. I pushed it back upright... and.. I'll leave it alone and get back to you all.. to see if it makes a recovery... anyone want to make a prediction?

SNAP 4 2


Here's an interesting Anomaly... take a good look at the picture below and then of the one following it...


What 1



What 2

Did you notice that? Can you figure out what's going on.. well let me know...
 
Eledin

Eledin

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Hahaha nice yes, thats a way of doing monster cropping if Im correct. I mentioned in this post I think? Not sure, I also left you a video on how to repair really badly damaged stems if you need it its in page 3 or so. I cant see the last one properly so I dont know if it needs something to recover or it will do it on its own, could yo provided a close up? Id like to make a prediction hahaha but considering is not hanging by a thread Id say it will recover.
The anomaly you mention its just another praying leaf but looks a bit different cause it was a bit clawed from the nitrogen or whatever caused your problem, nitrogen or heat (How is it doing? Did it stop after the flush?). Just in case you dont know why praying leaves appear:
 
SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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The clawing seems to pop up here and then over their... as I mentioned.. just keeping an eye on it... I still think it's related to rapid expansion of every where and everything in the pots an above the screen... on the two clones... similar to what I mentioned earlier.. the reason I'm not sweating it..

In the image above... the plant you are guessing is praying.. I believe the leaves in the rear were clawed and know they appear normal.. I'll have to look up past images to confirm..

Good link... haven't come across that one yet.. good to have in the thread for future reference...
 
mjvdet13

mjvdet13

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If you are growing with a net you need to take into account that most strains will stretch til week 3 of flower. Its mostly about timing and if your timing is off you can tuck/super crop/adjust lights.. flip into flower when your plants touch the net
 
Eledin

Eledin

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The clawing seems to pop up here and then over their... as I mentioned.. just keeping an eye on it... I still think it's related to rapid expansion of every where and everything in the pots an above the screen... on the two clones... similar to what I mentioned earlier.. the reason I'm not sweating it..

In the image above... the plant you are guessing is praying.. I believe the leaves in the rear were clawed and know they appear normal.. I'll have to look up past images to confirm..

Good link... haven't come across that one yet.. good to have in the thread for future reference...
I can assure you that leaves clawing have nothing to do with rapid expansion and they appear when there is a problem, the most common being nitrogen toxicity but not the only possible one. Here you have all the possible problems that can cause leave curling and clawing.
Many different problems start with very similar symptoms thats why sometimes, unless its your grow and you know everything, its very hard to diagnose weed. When the problem gets more serious you can start noticing more distinct caracteristics of that particular problem. My tips in the 2 taller stems started pointing downwards as I mentioned and showed in other post, I knew it was heat just by placing the hand in there, as soon as the rest grew more and I moved the lights a bit higher the problem stoped. Affected leaves never go back to normal but if it gets worse you will notice it. If you rewatch the image, you will see how I trimmed some leaves in the affected tops to avoid so much surface being so hot, that was to help until I could move the lights higher. I also directed the fan to that area to disperse more heat without pointing it directly towards them, because it can cause wind stress which by the way also has similar symptoms at the start hahaha.
If its not nitrogen is one of the other ones 100%. Might be the case that since you top dress (solid ferts) even if you flushed there's still a bit of excess nitrogen, in which case its fine, the problem should be almost solved already.
That said, they dont look bad and if the problem goes away shouldnt affect the final yield much if anything at all, but if they keep appearing and the problem doesnt go away it will definetely impact your yield.
 
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SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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mjvdet13... thanks for the info... yes these girls are definitely stretching for a longer time than their mother did.

Eledin... thanks for the link... read it.. sorry friend... pretty much read every top listed cannabis growing web site (not so much forums.. a lot of speculation ) concerning growing before I even thought of getting a tent.

I'm had / have to go with my gut feeling on this... only 6 out of about 100 colas effected.. something I come to realized in my first grow.. some leaves were dying... but the majority were doing just great and everything turned out good.

So this past Sunday 3-31-24 .. I went back to feeding them 3x dose... of 15-30-24.. for some reason... I just like pushing the envelope.

We will see....
 
Eledin

Eledin

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I can only tell you what I would do, Ive dealt with this issue many times and not for the same reasons and what youre doing right now is risky but if you like to push the envelop as you say go ahead, Im no one to tell you not to. As for the "its only a few leaves" that will change quickly if the problem is nitrogen, in which case I guess youll cut back again. In the end nobody can diagnose them better than you once you have some experience, because you will know what caused the problem when you see it (most of the times at least). Ex: I knew those 2 stems were too high for their own good, first thing I did when I saw the tips is put my hand at their level to test temperature. If I see nitrogen toxicity I know its that because Ive been pushing more nitrogen on purpose and the rest of parameters are okay, etc,etc...
 
SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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1ST SCROG DIARY : UPDATE ..........100 COLAS
(FORMALLY: SCROG OUT OF CONTROL)

From time to time I like to update this thread with information on how this scrog grow is going and just as much with my personal observations.

The image below shows the most current progress of my 1st scrog grow.

2x4


I was amazed to the amount of "main colas" that grew from only 2 plants.. their mother only had 17

Count 2


I come up with this figure from counting one 1 foot by 2 foot rectangle then multiplying the number of colas by 4 the width of the tent.

Count

Now it might not be the most accurate method... but for me it's close enough. Please note that the majority of these are auxiliary branches

Now with so many colas... I've been wondering.. will this reduce the overall size that the colas can/will achieve.,, as I've noticed that the biggest of colas has been on plants with low counts. I've been told by a friend that these can become very large.. if nurtured correctly... another reason to ignore the slight NT situation currently.... no pain... no gain... we will see!

Side note:
I haven't brought this up on the thread.. but.. the main reason at the time that I chose this style is because in my location in USA.. the law dictates only 2 plant per house hold... my understanding for the popularity of this type of scrog. grow.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Eledin: "I can only tell you what I would do" and I do appreciate that you do... and the knowledge you add to this thread not only in effort to help me but the future growers who come to this forum for advice and help...


.​
 
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Eledin

Eledin

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Its looking great honestly, big yield incoming. The thing that will limit you in my opinion is the light and whatever shitty bud sites or shitty stems that might be left if any but more input would be appreciated. I cant help but notice that your top leaves are yellowing in some colas a bit, are the lights still as close as usual? If it persists or gets worse you might wanna pull them higher.
 
SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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eledin:"top leaves are yellowing in some colas a bit, are the lights still as close as usual"


1712327961948

Sharp observation... actually they do appear that way.. in that picture.. the leaves that sit directly below the lights appear to be light green... well I did investigate.. and started thinking that lighting can play tricks with the eye...

In the image below.. another image with digital camera with flash for lighting

Flash 1


In the image below.. taken with hand held led cob lamp for lighting

Led hand lamp 1

ignore the up-curled leaves on the right... their manipulated
I think it is just that the light is directly above and what we are seeing is the light intensity spread. ( Actually lights are farther away then usual.. I alternated from 50% to 75% power level ) l"ll keep an eye on the overall color .. along with what is increasingly as situation that has me most concerned ...is the the pH is continuing to drop close to 5.0. . even though I've been consistently dose water and fertilizer to a pH right below 7.0... looks like I have a bit of research to
do....


Just thinking about what I just wrote: "alternated from 50% to 75% power level" that means I've been using 50 watts per plant ...as the 75% setting is only for a few hours and some days I keep at 50 all 12 hrs. Saving the 100% for weeks 7-11 when I usually (last grow) to go to a higher height above buds.

Back to: looks like I have a bit of research to do....​
 
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SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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1ST SCROG DIARY : UPDATE ..... YELLOWING LEAVES
(FORMALLY KNOW AS : SCROG OUT OF CONTROL....)


Almost daily I check under the screen for maintenance and inspections and trim away want to be colas. So at this stage / time of the this (scrog) grow the first yellowing of leaves start to appear.

Yellow leaf 1


Going back ...On JAN 07 2023 I found this on MY FIRST GROW... at the time having been leisurely reading all the content on top cannabis sites for the past 2 months...I found my 1st Yellowing leaf... my studies intensified quickly.. I had a grasp of what it could be .. what it most likely could be... but i wanted reassurance... I needed reassurance... go figure.. right.

1712412485024

Dear Mother...
(we miss you)
I like the thousands (novices) before me... we had to admit we really didn't know how to read a map... but that's a good thing. That's how we found www.thcfarmer.com .... Curious were you one of us ?

So the past couple days I notices a few leaves under the screen were turning color.. it dawned on me like mother.. like daughters.


Yellow leaf 2


I found 3 in total


Leaf color 2


The yellower they become.. the easier they fall from the plant

So at almost 3 weeks of 12/12 and a little more than a week of flower.. this time I'm not going to panic ..
just keeping a watchful eye..


 
SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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Forgot to add this picture of mother.... 1st Yellowing

MOTHER

Mother...
 
Eledin

Eledin

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They look great! So maybe theyre a bit more pale but yes the light made it seem like it was way more than it really is. The yellowing is okay as long as its happening from bottom to top without affecting the upper leaves, in a SCROG the light doesnt reach much further than the upper canopy so as I told you they tend to yellow a lot more than if grown without any technique but its still a natural process. The plant doesnt want the leaf anymore, its old and barely getting any light, starts to take nutes and slowly detaches it from the stem until it falls on its own or stays there dry (its good to remove the ones that are already very yellow or dry to avoid mold, if theyre only slightly yellow you can wait a couple of days til the plant is done taking most of the nutes, easier to pick them up too). I never had a mother cause I have never worked with clones or tried to polinate it with a male, but I assume you wanna keep the nitrogen high always since its permanently in veg mode but even then sooner or later some leaves are gonna be discarded by the plant as it gets older and grows new leaves.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, in late flower is okay if the upper canopy is yelllowing, the plant is making a final effort of getting polinated and might take nutes from all the fan leaves. Specially if you flush it, but is okay. Im pretty sure you have seen plenty of pictures of mature weed with yellow fan leaves, or even purple or copper which is the combination of yellow, green plus blue from that strain or the cold.
Oh and another thing, even green leaves might come off easily, sometimes they dont even have time to yellow before becoming useless and they dont even try to take light, they just hang from the stem, those I remove too. Sometimes it can be that they are thirsty or too wet, then that happens too, but if you know its not thirsty or too wet those leaves will come off easily.
 
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SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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Yes... more leaves yellowing .. a few each day... just like their mother did.. however it "seems" it's a bit earlier than she... and unlike her.. the other day I found one leaf that was perfectly green below the screen that basically fell off with just a touch... as you mentioned.

The curled leaves... for the most part remain curled.. no additional curlers have formed since despite heavy feedings.

I put a post up for nitrogen toxicity... no one has answered that actually experienced it...(full range.. not talking yellowing tips.. it seems most are just repeating what they've read elsewhere... I'm not overly concerned... but I've seen answers for this claw that ranges all over the place... no one has been definitive... looking for what happens to the leaves in the long term... do they die.. turn brown... fall off.. and how long before the next reaction after clawing... if and how did they recover .... this would be good to learn from and actual person who battled this problem... I guess what gets my goat is that on a major site the guy writes clawing start with the oldest leaves.. how definitive is that?


So in general the grow seems like it's going well.. I"m pushing the ferts a bit... after learning from my first / last grow. I was underfeeding the mother.

In a nutshell this scrog ... it's starting to look like a Jungle....
 
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SnappyJack

SnappyJack

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1ST SCROG DIARY : UPDATE ..... 3 WEEKS OF FLOWER
(tomorrow 4/10)
(PREVIOUSLY KNOW AS : SCROG OUT OF CONTROL....)
In the image below you may notice that the right side of the 2x4 tent.. the colas are taller / larger
than those on the left... I haven't exactly figure it out... why? .. other than something in the mix.
There is one other thing.. when testing the led lights for intensity the one on the right (older of the two)
was stronger... more on that later.

Sg 4   9 a


I'm not sure if the stretch is over... I have a mix of colas lengths above the screen.. so much for the 100 colas.. as quite a few seem left behind in the dust... from the faster growing ones....

Sg 4   9 b

I've been running the lights about 6 inches (152.4 mm) above the tops... 50%... morning and evening...75% afternoon..

Lengths of colas at this time is running a minimum of 6 inches (on those that have taken off)
8 inches appears to be average... 10 and 12 inches on the perimeter.. go figure.


Sg 4   9 d

(measure from screen deck)

One thing I've observed in this grow is that the density of bud formation is a lot
fuller / thicker and more in length compared to their mother.


Sg 4   9 c


I've also notice that the threads / pistils are turning brown sooner than the mother.

Just today I've managed to get the VPD more steady and in the 1.2 range...
my understanding is that 1.6 is maximum..

Getting use to a tent and balancing it and the room ( lung room? ) temp and humidity...
takes a bit of experimenting... and with the humid months approaching I'm going to need
to modify the exhaust on a portable ac / humidifier.. real soon.

 
Eledin

Eledin

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"I put a post up for nitrogen toxicity... no one has answered that actually experienced it...(full range.. not talking yellowing tips.."
I have, in this post, several times hahaha. Im gonna repeat myself here for the 4th time already, if the clawing is on the top is most likely light or heat stress, if the clawing is random or starts from the bottom is most likely nitrogen toxicity. Since youre not experiencing worsening of the symptoms whatever it was is no more, yet at least, never let y our guard down hahaha. Honestly watching those lights so close makes me really uncomfortable but if they tolerate it... and we already talked about that. Websites can be vague because as we also said, many symptoms are shared in common problems. Just your problem could be 5 different things and without information about the grow you cant get a definitive answer. I still think your colas are way too hot, was it like something in the range of 30-40ºC?
As for some colas going higher than others, once you run out of net you cant do much about it. Giving less nitrogen might help you with that next time~ its the primary nutrient that they use to grow until they stop stretching. The other major role is to produce food but once flowering starts its mostly the second role that matters. If you give it extra nitrogen the first 3 weeks of flower, its gonna use the extra nitrogen to stretch more. Sometimes you cant avoid it if the strain is just very tall by nature, those are not very good for SCROG.
 
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Eledin

Eledin

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Sorry for not editing, too late, but I also responded to your nitrogen toxicity post. I didnt see it, I have so many notifications from other posts that sometimes I miss stuff.
EDIT: I just remembered something lost in the post "sometimes it can be a sign of rapid growth". Dont know who said that but that screams nitrogen toxicity to me, theyre stretching so much because they dont know what else to do with so much nitrogen. No healthy plant will show such symptoms no matter how fast it grows.
I also understand that so much information being a new grower, youre not gonna remember everything I say, I also tend to be lenghty in my explanations.
 
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