Stop The Bro Science Behind Molasses And Other Organic Stuff

[EventHorizan]

i'm going to be honest with you what you just claimed about brewing a tea that long could culture pathogens. That's a serious danger to health of plants as well as growers. That's the concern. Not anaerobic bacteria so much.

http://ucanr.edu/repository/fileaccess.cfm?article=54016&p= VEHRCE

Well here they are after using that for 2.5 months straight..

 

[oldskol4evr]

I however do offer apologies for saying that studying dirt had to be the most boring thing a person could do for 6 yrs.. After reading for a few mins, I discovered dirt has quite a past.....

coco is very easy to grow.
I use 1/2 gal pots in flood table flooded 3x a day with just csn17 and silica blast.. no ph up or down,, Nothing else.. 18 ml csn17 to 5 ml silica blast, in gal ro water.
Ph remains stable for over a week min!
In my UC system in hasnt changed in 9 days!

That is about as stable as It gets brother.

now with a flood table i would use the shit out of the coco,maintaining stablity with just pots suck,maybe 1 day shit be legal to do here and that would be a great addition,but honestly,as much as i smoke 1 really good size tree a do me,im way out of that stick around to score scene hell to the no on that so wouldnt sell ,just meds for me and mama

 

[EventHorizan]

now with a flood table i would use the shit out of the coco,maintaining stablity with just pots suck,maybe 1 day shit be legal to do here and that would be a great addition,but honestly,as much as i smoke 1 really good size tree a do me,im way out of that stick around to score scene hell to the no on that so wouldnt sell ,just meds for me and mama

There comes a time when you got to trade the Harley for a trike! I understand brother!

 

[brazel]

I didn't wake up one day and decide soil is the best, sometimes that's just how shit works... this has been based on a true story!

Imitation is never better than the real thing... That's just how shit works!

Haha come on now
Everyone knows the best bud is the bud smoking right now.

And remember you're not stuck in traffic, you are the traffic

 

[EventHorizan]

A ringworm is not a worm at all but a soilborne fungus that causes infectious legions. As we know fungual spores are airborne. They can culture in any body of soil where enough beneficial microbes arent present to combat them. You want to dump that tea yet or do ya need more?

Ya dumped the tea after last harvest..
Dont need the tea no more, as I moved from Coco to the UC.....

They also recommend you replace your toothbrush every 2 weeks.
Shouldn't eat bacon.
Pot is bad for you.
Sitting to close to the TV,
and jacking off will give you hairy palms.

You never been worried about your palms, why the big stink over brewing tea for extended periods as long as I add back to the system every 48 to 76 hrs...

 

[Hpo777]

A ringworm is not a worm at all but a soilborne fungus that causes infectious legions. As we know fungual spores are airborne. They can culture in any body of soil where enough beneficial microbes arent present to combat them. You want to dump that tea yet or do ya need more?

What? If you follow some very basic guidelines you dont have to worry about being anaerobic. You think bottles nutes are completely safe? Last time I checked PO4 is poisonous lol
The entire point of a tea is to only put bennys into the soil...never met someone brewing a tea for the E coli

And who the hell is saying teas are not effective? Our research here at school and Elaine Inghams soilfoodweb research are laying out nothing but dam good results with only compost and 1 tea a month, we saw increases of yields up to 60% and Elaine was getting up to 175% increases. Yield wasn't the only improvement either. We saw stronger deeper root systems developing, less anaerobic pockets within the soil, using less water because plants roots are digging deeper, massive increase in nutrional value(proven by the government actually just so ol staff member can't refute it lol USDA to be exact).
My question to you is lay out some evidence as to where your claims come from? Science not well look at my plants, because this cycle I've spent a total of $0. Last 4 cycles? $0. Any inorganic farmers spending $0? Any hydro guys spending $0?
Ps aquaponics is tight! Love it!

And as far as the "other plant biology" reference, id like to state that a proper soil structure is a proper soil structure. We apply the same thought process to soy as we do grapes. The only thing cloudy right now is where cannabis falls into the succession level. We had talked about that previously in this thread. If we had a 100% answer from proven data...we'd be kicking it out of the ballpark. Yes alot about cannabis hasn't been researched in the US. Alot of other countries have releases research pertaining to cannabis, but alot more research is still needed for sure! I'll agree with that! But organics is still the only way for me. If you think you can do it better than mother nature(who has been causing, solving, and perfecting all of nature's needs) then you go ahead, she's only got a few years on ya

 

[EventHorizan]

Okay, sure. Quality asside, per pound of bud I spend pennies on the dollar than I used. And composting is fun.

Aint compost , like shit?
lol

 

[Hpo777]

Aint compost , like shit?
lol

Compost isn't just poop, it's decayed organic matter. Personally only poop I use is worm castings lol

 

[EventHorizan]

I think you completely missed what I said. I'm not talking Elaine Ingham garden here. What I am explaining is the average person should not attempt to brew teas. Tad hussey from kiss organics has stated this. Another thing is that my whole bed is EWC. Matter of fact i bet the worms shit when water hits them. Every time I water it cascades a tea down.

A little small organic no till gardener named BlueJay explained it quite eloquently. Why take the time to brew a tea when you can simply top dress compost and brew a tea right in your soil?

Here's the deal anyway. If you start with a good humus source all teas are a good piss in the wind. I didn't say it. Another little organic gardener named Clackamas coot said that. As no till gardeners we find redundancies and eliminate them.

Who would actually aim to brew pathogens? Not what I was saying at all. It can happen if someone just tries to wing a tea. It is a roll of the dice. You dont want to pour a batch of root rot on your plant.

I don't fuck with tea because I'm not a microbiologist and I don't believe anyone who isn't should be brewing teas. Period point blank. Why is this so hard to float? You think people who aren't 100% sure what they're doing should start brewing?

I will take you right over to the grass city organics lounge and we can talk all about it. I'm sure those guys won't mind a good talking to about Elaine ingham. They'll tell you about a good author named masanobu who said "leave it the fuck alone. You dont know nature."

He did miss what you said. He even belittles ppl on his side of the argument.
I realize you were aligned wiyh his thinking which is fine. Shit i even know you both our correct in your thinking...
I think he expected prob more respect from me. His masters degree.
I failed to recognize his attributes..

See you can gave any degree you want
But that doesnt always reflect in mj.
Im not impressed with 50 gram plants inside in dirt.
That was all i was saying neg avout dirt.
Not you guys per se..
An art is an art..
Many millions of ppl been enslaved to move dirt... I did learn that dirt has a dirty past :)

 

[EventHorizan]

He did miss what you said. He even belittles ppl on his side of the argument.
I realize you were aligned wiyh his thinking which is fine. Shit i even know you both our correct in your thinking...
I think he expected prob more respect from me. His masters degree.
I failed to recognize his attributes..

See you can gave any degree you want
But that doesnt always reflect in mj.
Im not impressed with 50 gram plants inside in dirt.
That was all i was saying neg avout dirt.
Not you guys per se..
An art is an art..
Many millions of ppl been enslaved to move dirt... I did learn that dirt has a dirty past :)

I said thos in my lil rascals voice..
We can all be friends on the playground...

 

[Hpo777]

I'm very curious to what people have to say about the queen of soil science lol as for good reads, dokuchaev is my favorite go to scientist.
Yes nature does it best I fully agree, biggest part of outdoors for me...is the sun lol best light ever.
For most especially some store bought soil is almost dirt lol so a good tea and quality compost is essential to building a proper soil food web. That being said things can change in the soil and adding a tea again would be beneficial, when I say use teas...I mean maybe once a month...not every week like bottles. Ingam doesn't fertilize either, she's very against it. It's more about getting the proper biology back in the soil not fertilizing it. I'm curious about the claims to yield though. All contest have been won by elaine here in the states as well as Australia. I think you might be confusing her work with someone else's, she wants water only as well. She even pushes farmers to take her classes so they never have to send another sample again lol

50 gram plants are a disappointment in my eyes lol I'm outdoors as my climate allows.

I come off "rude" but it's passion. My apologies to toke.

As far as my degree goes...I don't want respect, it matters little to me really lol my Internet penis can be as small as youd like haha I stated my credentials because it's a staple to "I've got a firm grasp" on the concepts, in all honesty I'm 2 semesters into actual microbiology, microclimatology, and in depth soil fertility.

 

[EventHorizan]

Dude i am the same way. Im not being a dick at all most times. I dont sugar coat things either. I am however concerned for someone who depends on this medication blindly dumping fermented dirt in their soil thinking theyre in the clear. As you said microbiology exists for a reason. Do i know what each microbe is and can i identify it 100%? Nope, so i dont do it. I do however throw down some carbon source and lay fulvic acid over it. If you want to keep adding tea you need the dregs to go along with it. Increasing soil population cannot accur without increasing the humus ratio. Humus is like housing for microbes.

Does my soil need more life? When i pull my mulch back my soil crawls.

Well fuck boys.. Why didnt u just tell me why you do this dumb dirt thing, was for fresh bait! I like it! We keep it outside tho and just use it for worms...
The water my plants grow in is crystal clear. I can see roots in the bottom of my bucket... White pearly things... See we all got our thing....
Its bro science, its weedology, its the thing we all love..
We are the brothers in bro science.
Ppl came before us and they share that knowledge. Grow knowledge, mj specific..

 

[lemons]

This may have been answered but damn this is a dense thread so imma ask anyway.

Is it true that on its own, molasses will ONLY feed microbes; but when paired with an acid (humic, fulvic, even PH down), something happens that grants the plant access to the starches?

 

[jipp]

i use a little but just for the vitamins? and the sulfur. molasses that is.

 

[jipp]

Yah honestly molasses doesnt have a whole hell of a lot to offer. Some iron maybe and you should be using unsulfured blackstrap molasses. This will get a little dicey to explain. Your plant doesnt recognize or uptake sugar. It does recognize and uptake enzymes. I know guys like molasses but i dont know if it will have the proper peptides and nucleutides to ride the fulvic acid in. I use, what else, freshly ground malted barley powder. It will contain urease, phosphatase, protease, chitinase and other enzymes that the plant will actually recognize. Think of it like feeding your plant stem cells.

im using insect frass too.. will the two play nice together. ill give it a try.

 

[jipp]

Insect frass is awesome. Loaded with chitin. It will activate SAR (systemic aquired resistance) as well including elevated terpene production.

thank you for that bit on info. the elevated terpene stuck out for me..

 

[Ecompost]

Yessir I understand but what I'm saying is it's not as simple as NPK. That's why we utilize enzymes and amino acids to push our plants past peak.


Nitrogen is so vital because it is a major component of chlorophyll, the compound by which plants use sunlight energy to produce sugars from water and carbon dioxide (i.e., photosynthesis). It is also a major component of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. Without proteins, plants wither and die.

yes, but plants make these proteins et al themselves and with the help of active soil biology and water based microbes, from Nitrogen. Ergo this is less a chicken and egg debate that it is being made to feel like.
Plants use Nitrogen ions, they use them in multiple ways, soil organisms also use Nitrogen, but typically organic N which they convert to ionic N and or various Amino Acids where it is then used by plants. If there is no Nitrogen in the system, nothing will happen. You might deliver N in AAC form and we do that here with all of our products being bacteria based fermentation, so we are using organic forms of N from the existing pile of N in the natural biochemical cycle. I mean we dont synthesize N using chemicals in a lab, since we @ BOX believe there is sufficient N on planet earth, its just we arent very good at accessing it in many instances, or we have in some way convinced ourselves we can by pass natural systems and cycle without cost.
.

 

[Ecompost]

See I believe that outdoor isnt near as good as indoor. Now green house that is climate controlled with supplemental lighting would prob be the best. But we are talking about lighting.. Not soil..
Soil is dirty and has bugs, attracts gnats and a host of other shit that you got to deal with, you got to amend it from the get go, and then you still got to feed the soil, the microbes, and its work. I seen a guy look like he had a jacuzzi filled with dirt in the basement growing in.. I couldnt even imagine that. Esp carrying all the dirt down there.

I know im a hydro grower and we are like cats and dogs when it comes to this subject, but my initial post was just to show what I did, and what the result was. He called my quote bro science as in it had no merit, as in im some nobody that just posts inaccurate details. And he threw his doctorate up at me like it carried merit on a mj growing forum, so true to form, i answered Event Horizan style..
Im still working on my twitter/social media presentations :)

As for my preference, It all seems like about the same when its grown correctly with the right amount of nutrients, the right spectrum, and a knowledgeable grower....

you grow how you want, if its as good as you say, there shouldnt be anyway anyone can make you feel negative about it surely?
There is no possible way for my money, that an indoor light, without full 100% CRI can be better than a well grown sun drenched specimen. this is just my opinion.

if you have bugs, bad ones I mean, then you are not growing properly. There is a problem with you, not with soil. This is true if you change media to coco. The problem is a PICNIC as we used to say in IT. Problem In Chair Not In Computer.

Some ideas about pest recognition and environmental considerations you might work with.

Aphids- Curled leaves or sticky leaves- you can easily see them on stems with their long 'beak'/ Not well-ventilated.

Botrytis- Damping off. Young stems collapse./ Not well-ventilated.

Gray Mold- Fluffy gray mold on plants. / Not well-ventilated.

Spider mites- Leaves get webbed, dappled and striped with red or bronze areas, and drop. Tiny mites can be seen under the leaves. / Too dry.

Root weevil - Plants collapse. Small white grubs are found feeding on roots. Plants show notched leaf margins- a warning.

Rust- Orange/reddish, rusty areas appear, usually under the leaves. /Not well-ventilated; too moist.

Slugs - They love moist greenhouses and tender growth to raise their young.

Look under the pots as well.

Thrips- Small, narrow-bodied, yellow, brown or black insects, seen to be smothering the plant. Shoots and flower buds are damaged. / Too warm or too little water, not common in the PNW interestingly.

White Flies- Under the leaves, small white eggs are laid- leaves become sticky. When the plant is touched, little, white flies scatter frantically into the air. - Too warm

If things are bad in your area, then ISOPROPHYL ALCOHOL- 70 % 1 part alcohol- 3 or 4 parts water. Use a sticker, the soap nuts will work for this but so will Canola oil or other if you aint got anything else.
All bug problems exist as a breakdown in natural bio control, typically as a consequence of human interference but also related to the environment as you can see.

 

[Ecompost]

I guess im the guy that convinced himself. Heres the thing. I didnt generate any of this info. Guys have been running beds for 10 years with nothing but water.

N is important but is it necessarily something to chase? N is precipitated into my soil every time a bug farts. I have a lot of bugs.

they are not running on only water.Please lets all stop with this nonsense. They are using biologically fixed Nitrogen

 

[Ecompost]

So what we are seeing is a miracle? that we havent all walked past fields of plants everyday that no one has added N too. What do these guys want? A medal for understanding whats happening around them? The interpretation is what annoys me. One thinks that because one adds only water that there is no N being cycled? Its in the air man, 70% of the stuff is N2 etc. Just because you aint adding it, dont mean your plants aint using it. I dont follow these guys in 10 year beds, I do follow nature which is what they seem to be doing