Sun System® LEC™ 315 Light Emitting Ceramic Fixture

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Herb Forester

Herb Forester

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Not someone I have regular access to, but he said the newer ones use both square and sine wave simultaneously. Supposedly it has something to do with why the Philips ballast can only use 5ft or shorter lamp cords, which was a deal breaker for me on the first install. Maybe I misunderstood the specifics, we had a slight language barrier and my notes focused on the takeaway (he's from that country Fishwhistle doesn't like)

Also enclosed fixtures are not necessary, the protected lamps should be perfectly safe on the Welthinks. If I'm wrong please provide evidence from the huge numbers of them burning all over the world.
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

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Im not trying to be argumentative, just trying to be a good friend.

You can't have sine and square wave simultaneously on the same output channel. The Wellthink ballasts are square wave. And the Philips ballast remote distance is not limited to 5 or 6 feet, it is 30-33 feet with the proper wiring. The limiting specification is that the ballast to lamp wiring must be below 1000 picofarads capacitance, and this is right about 33 feet with the industry standard 16 AWG SO flexible cable. Trust me.

My reason for recommending the enclosed fixture was if you did run the 315 elite CDM lamp from a high frequency sine wave ballast, the likely outcome would be premature lamp failure, possibly a violent arc tube rupture. This is the reason all OEM ceramic metal halide manufacturers will not warranty lamps operated from high freq sine wave ballasts. The high freq causes excessive acoustic resonance of the arc and rattles the arc tube structure apart. With the high operating pressure inside metal halide arc tubes , especially of the 315 CDM, this possible violent arc tube rupture may breach even the outer shell of the protected or open rated lamps.

But like I said, I have not seen any ballasts made to operate the 315 CDM that are in fact high frequency sine wave. They are all Low Frequency Square Wave designs. Oh and all the 315 cdm ballast circuit boards that I have seen are made in China, even the Philips ballast that is assembled in Mexico.
 
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Herb Forester

Herb Forester

766
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Quantrill said:
Im not trying to be argumentative, just trying to be a good friend.

You can't have sine and square wave simultaneously on the same output channel. The Wellthink ballasts are square wave. And the Philips ballast remote distance is not limited to 5 or 6 feet, it is 30-33 feet with the proper wiring. The limiting specification is that the ballast to lamp wiring must be below 1000 picofarads capacitance, and this is right about 33 feet with the industry standard 16 AWG SO flexible cable. Trust me.

My reason for recommending the enclosed fixture was if you did run the 315 elite CDM lamp from a high frequency sine wave ballast, the likely outcome would be premature lamp failure, possibly a violent arc tube rupture. This is the reason all OEM ceramic metal halide manufacturers will not warranty lamps operated from high freq sine wave ballasts. The high freq causes excessive acoustic resonance of the arc and rattles the arc tube structure apart. With the high operating pressure inside metal halide arc tubes , especially of the 315 CDM, this possible violent arc tube rupture may breach even the outer shell of the protected or open rated lamps.

But like I said, I have not seen any ballasts made to operate the 315 CDM that are in fact high frequency sine wave. They are all Low Frequency Square Wave designs. Oh and all the 315 cdm ballast circuit boards that I have seen are made in China, even the Philips ballast that is assembled in Mexico.
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I trust you, just reporting what I was told. Re-checked my notes and he definitely said Welthink are low-frequency square + sine wave while others (at the time) were only LF square. As for what that means, all I know is the lights come on and grow good plants. Maybe it's all wrong and the mustache-twisting China-man is lmfaoing at my embarrassment :eyepiece:
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

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I imagine what he was trying to convey was a two stage circuit, where the ignition circuit is a resonant sine wave and once the arc is established the circuit switches over to the LFSW for steady state operation.

As far as I know, this is how all the 315 CDM ballasts operate.

link
 
S

shortnWide

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Just seen this thread. I'm kinda new here but figured I'd ad MO to the subject a second.
I seen the Welthink ballasts about 2 years back wail looking for equipment for a big op. If you google the name (& search a min) there are many bad reviews. Worst part is no one gets their warrantee honored. All resellers say "contact manufacturer" and the manufacturer don't return warrantee emails or calls.

This was an old complaint link but it dosent work anymore❌


To me a dollar to dollar comparison still has a big contributing factor wether their product quality and customer service is on point.
 
We Solidarity

We Solidarity

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263
shortnWide said:
Just seen this thread. I'm kinda new here but figured I'd ad MO to the subject a second.
I seen the Welthink ballasts about 2 years back wail looking for equipment for a big op. If you google the name (& search a min) there are many bad reviews. Worst part is no one gets their warrantee honored. All resellers say "contact manufacturer" and the manufacturer don't return warrantee emails or calls.

This was an old complaint link but it dosent work anymore❌


To me a dollar to dollar comparison still has a big contributing factor wether their product quality and customer service is on point.
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That was two years ago~ haven't seen any problems with new welthinks at all.
 
Smokey503ski

Smokey503ski

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Is the reflector the only difference between the Sunsystem lec and the Commercial version?
I can get the Commercial 315w for $370 at my local shop.
Anyone running the Commercial 315w?
 
fishwhistle

fishwhistle

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Smokey503ski said:
Is the reflector the only difference between the Sunsystem lec and the Commercial version?
I can get the Commercial 315w for $370 at my local shop.
Anyone running the Commercial 315w?
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No,the commercial version uses the bulb horizontally instead of vertically,same philips ballast though.Some say these bulbs were built to run vert and there is a slight loss horizontally,hard to say.Most of the commercial ballast like SS,Gavita etc that stand up vertically were designed to be run in greenhouses so they would block less natural light,not really a consideration indoors.
 
Smokey503ski

Smokey503ski

1,865
263
fishwhistle said:
No,the commercial version uses the bulb horizontally instead of vertically,same philips ballast though.Some say these bulbs were built to run vert and there is a slight loss horizontally,hard to say.Most of the commercial ballast like SS,Gavita etc that stand up vertically were designed to be run in greenhouses so they would block less natural light,not really a consideration indoors.
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Now I'm second guessing on pulling the trigger on the Commercial setup.
I will probably flower in a 8x8 tent. Running 8 315w lights. Thinking of 2 8'x3' scrogs with 4 lights over each screen.
Besides the Commercial 315w for around $375 which would be the better choice?
 
fishwhistle

fishwhistle

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263
Dont think you can go wrong with any of them,Plenty to choose from.
375 is a smokin price if it comes with a bulb.
Im going to try the same as you,4 over a 3x8 in a run or 2 just to see how 315 works in flower,think ill try these(thanks WS!), of like a mini adjustawing.
I have the standard SS lec in veg and it works great so im sure the commercial will too.
 
Smokey503ski

Smokey503ski

1,865
263
fishwhistle said:
Dont think you can go wrong with any of them,Plenty to choose from.
375 is a smokin price if it comes with a bulb.
Im going to try the same as you,4 over a 3x8 in a run or 2 just to see how 315 works in flower,think ill try these(thanks WS!), of like a mini adjustawing.
I have the standard SS lec in veg and it works great so im sure the commercial will too.
Click to expand...
Do you have another link? It didn't work
 
Smokey503ski

Smokey503ski

1,865
263
@fishwhistle these are the ones

My local shop will price match for me. Since Sunlight Supply is in my town I won't have to pay for shipping. Just tax.
These come with choice of a 3100°k or 4200°k bulb.
I'm pondering on the idea of getting 4 each and stagger them so I get a nice spectrum.
 
fishwhistle

fishwhistle

4,686
263
Yeah thats a smokin price bro,I looked at those too i just dont care for the ballasts located vertically.I already have gavitas that are like that and dont care for the space you lose in vertically challenged environments,its not an issue with tall ceilings but i have 8'.
 
Herb Forester

Herb Forester

766
143
Oh, and they said max is 100 picofarands not 1000, so maybe that's where the confusion arose? Maybe with @Quantrill 's expertise he can vet that and tell us if it makes any sense.

Another gem someone just dropped on me, apparently Cycloptics dabs the lamp tips with high heat aluminum paint, to block significant light from escaping due to the envelope design. Makes obvious sense for the vertical reflectors, and I think probably for horizontal ones too.
 
Quantrill

Quantrill

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Thank you for choosing Philips Lighting.

Our Product Manager has reviewed your inquiry and has provided the following response:

In late 2013 the igniter circuit was changed. The max wire capacitance is now 120 Pico farads, or approx. 6 ft. / 2 m.

If you are in need of further assistance, please reply to this e-mail or contact our Philips Lighting Customer Care Team at 1-800-372-3331.

Sincerely,


Customer Care Associate
Philips Lighting North America
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My confusion arose from the fact that until recently all the data and the OEM design guides from their technical website stated 1 nf (1000pf) max ballast to lamp wire capacitance.

If the label on your ballast doesn't say specifically 6' ballast to lamp distance then check the date code stamped on the lead end of the case. The first two numbers are the year, the next three numbers the day of the year. Any date prior to 13XXX with xxx being lower than about 200 can be remote mounted up to about 30'. After that date you are limited to 6'.
 
Philips IZTMH 210315 R LF date code nomenclature
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