The Fat Leaf Breeding Project

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lino

lino

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Edit to above post:
I'm not saying at all that it is not worthwhile to do what you're doing. Just because the possibilities may be endless because of time and environment doesn't mean you can't get a lot of very useful information by studying genealogy. We usually try to keep our environments pretty stable anyways especially when growing indoors. Keep up the good work! And keep the lessons coming so we can get our minds boggled and expanded lol.
Ppl are throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks if they dont know the strains trait ratios. I mean any one can cross GoodPot X GoodPot , you might even get good bud.

""possibilities may be endless""
- Our breeding objective is to eliminate some of the possibilities.

 
Farmer P

Farmer P

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Ppl are throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks if they dont know the strains trait ratios. I mean any one can cross GoodPot X GoodPot , you might even get good bud.

""possibilities may be endless""
- Our breeding objective is to eliminate some of the possibilities.
I'd say it's ok to throw shit against the wall as a hobby. But spreading bad genes is not cool. If you got a strain that herms even with stable environment I think you should end it. That pollen could ruin someones crop downwind and they might spread it without even knowing until they grow their seeds next year.
 
lino

lino

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I believe it's even more complicated than knowing what genes you have. I believe all living organisms probably have many possibilities that no on knows about because they haven't done the proper experiments (which could possibly be endless) to see all the possibilities. Follow me. Remember I mentioned before the possibility of getting more herms because of causing herms on purpose over and over. There are what they call master switches that turn on and off certain genes. (and there may be many more possibilities than just on and off) Cave fish that live in the dark eventually lose their eyeballs. Many would call this evolution. I do not! I believe that possibility was always there and the circumstances that the fish grew in (darkness) caused that master switch to change the expression of certain genes. If it was evolution that would infer that there were mutations. No! There were no mutations. It was just another one of the possibly endless gene combinations (expressions) that are available to all organisms. I watched a lecture by a zoologist that said if you leave cockroaches in the dark after a few generations they will also lose their eyeballs. But if you bring them back to light they will eventually get their eyes back. Written into the code. I saw a documentary that showed that on an island all the dinosaur fossils were miniaturized. They said it was because they didn't need to be big on that island so over time they shrank. Mutation? No! Already written into the DNA code. The designer built the possibilities into the organisms so they would be able to adapt. So the old nature/nurture argument comes out again. There is a lot more to it than just what you'll find on your charts. All the computing power in the universe probably couldn't figure out every possibility.
CPU power made the DNA map possible.
How to change the odds/ the possibilites in our favor. We can add genes different ways. With our charts and gel and visual we can eliminate chance and inject the cell. We can also stack the odds of plant outcome to watching this video.
This is MAS Breeding methods, beat pollen chucking everytime,
I'm showing how we can do this but were not ready yet
 
lino

lino

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@Farmer P , I agree with most of your evolution ideas and DNA is the code to everything about the organism so Yes, very hard to recognize evolution. Evolution is the biggest mistake science has proven to make.
We ate and bred neanderthal, they tried to tell us that we came from neanderthals back when I was a kid,, those monkey men gave us blue eye, red head, freckle gene, lol,,, scientist find a bone and make these wild assumptions. NASA another joke.
 
lino

lino

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I'd say it's ok to throw shit against the wall as a hobby. But spreading bad genes is not cool. If you got a strain that herms even with stable environment I think you should end it. That pollen could ruin someones crop downwind and they might spread it without even knowing until they grow their seeds next year.
remember ALL cannabis has these Hermy genetic designations possibilities, (HH) (Hh) or (hh). We're about to see how to control the plant .

Everyone, If we learn one thing, lets agree that all cannabis has the hermy Gene MeGI and DOI hermy genes identifed my scientist in DNA and I will show you in charts , How do we know this, we can see it in the DNA for many plants and some animals have a hermy genes also.
 
lino

lino

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Now for charting, but this has to be VERY VERY simplified to show the point and expose the hermy Gene.


DISCLAIMER
In a prior tutorial @MandyJane asked me to help breed dogs with the hairless gene So we got 5 hairless and one Hairy and no still births so the experiment was perfect and just the way the charts indicated, Actually, my breeding beat the odds with 5 hairless.

Why talk about this , This was a much better example of Hermy breeding as the Hairless gene is a Switch like @Farmer P was speaking of. The hermy and many switches are charted with possibilites and this get complicated real quick.
(HHHH) - HrHr - HhHh
dont try to figure this out at this point, or if you want to google you can figure it out - this is lesson better for my in person class like I explained to Mandy with her Hairless dog breeding.

it actually a little harder for actual Hermy breeding and you'll need to have a full understanding of 6 - 8 zygosities BUT FOR NOW you'll 'get it' with the charts we're about to create.
 
Farmer P

Farmer P

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@Farmer P , I agree with most of your evolution ideas and DNA is the code to everything about the organism so Yes, very hard to recognize evolution. Evolution is the biggest mistake science has proven to make.
We ate and bred neanderthal, they tried to tell us that we came from neanderthals back when I was a kid,, those monkey men gave us blue eye, red head, freckle gene, lol,,, scientist find a bone and make these wild assumptions. NASA another joke.

Agreed. Evolution relies on mutations which are very rare and almost always detrimental to the organism. Good mutations are so rare that there has not been enough time in the universe to produce even close to the results we see. Obviously mutations cannot explain the present state of life. It's all in the DNA code. A code so complex that to think it could happen by chance is to me absurd. But back to the topic.. The video above was great and by breeding this way you surely will have a much better chance to find the results you are looking for. Like I said keep up the good work and the quest for the ultimate fat leaf strain. A lot of people have no interest in the how and the why, but "inquiring minds want to know".
 
lino

lino

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Before we build our Breeder (D) chart there are some important points to note for this breeding tutorial.
Monocot vs Dicot does not equal Dioecious Beeding vs Monoecious Breeding
This is a hard concept for farmers and a tutorial in itself, but a quick primer for the sake of understanding
Plants (and only those) bear the corresponding female reproductive parts (pistillate flowers). In other words, the plant species in question has distinct male and female members. The plants in that species are said, then, to be "dioecious." The di- prefix indicates "two" in Greek (as in two separate plants are needed for reproduction, in this case) -- and that is how you can remember the meaning of the word.

What does that mean in practical terms? It means that you must have at least one male plant growing in or around your landscaping for the fruit-bearing female plants to be pollinated, when the plants in question are dioecious plants.

Now this is what threw me for a bit but what we deem as Hemp is found to be Monoecious plant in the DNA and the plants that we smoke and breed are Dioecious bred plants. So once that is considered in the charts, it become very clear and predictable in the breeding there of what the out come of he offspring traits will be.

All Cannabis is a Dicot. This is important to know for peeps grafting and other experiments.

So now with that said, for those of you who decide to NOT breed with feminized plants that a good idea if you dont understand. I am not comfortable growing or smoking or eating anything feminized.
A human that feminized a plant with chemicals is a GMO in the worst way for animal consumption. Lets define GMO in Pollen Chucker terms:
Genetically Modified Organism by humans using man made chemical.
Sound like Feminized seed's to me are GMO. The USDA and the like think so to and if any Fem's are found in the seed stock it can never be labeled ORGANIC, never. That mean 98% of what we smoke is GMO'd, sad, ya I know. I got straight up Organic Afi on my site. You feel crystal clear, clear complexion, drop some fat, the plant is pure and clean ol skool indica.

The science as we see. Breeder (D) talked about X and Y chromosomes to assure 100% females. This is true if your breeding criteria suggest the sex of plant as only
Male
Female
2 chromes for each plant , could be X or Y and each chrome has it traits embedded in the DNA of each chrome and this pic show a DNA marker on each leg of the Chrome.
300px-Heterozygous.jpg

You're male traits are 100% lost in Feminized seeds many times. All the time? we can debate all day long.
Just 2 decision to make in the chromosomes. But what if the X and Y control male and female and what if there is a Gene named MeGI . And what if this gene can change the Sexual Organs by the influence of a receptor gene named DOI. Well folks that exactly what happens and when humans induce 100% Females with chemicals, well let stop there and say 100% hermies in nature is very rare, but it happen FOR A REASON on rare occasions. But its different in the charts, WHY,
1.) in the wild you have to factor pollen from other dioecious and monoecious plants. So in the wild it is rare to have a plant that produces 100% fatherless cannabis plants but it happens and mother nature straighten it out real quick. You see how she fixes it with what pollen chuckers call a ruined crop of Hermy's.
Guys all pist at a breeder cuz they got a bunch of hermy's, when you breed these and look at the charts you get a surprise if you find the right Father, that where a site like mine that will have breeding stock for this very situation will come in handy big time.

2) How is good to knock of One leg of the Chromosome, the father genes. M carries the masculine genes, so what happens when strip the masculentity from an organsim, And what happens when this gay organism insiminates a female from its species or worse it breeds with another hermy,

3.) if any one keep going further with the charts to see what happens like when you cross your Man Made Freaks (hh) with lets say our seeds we made in the last tutorial, heterzygous for Tall gene (Tt), if you look back at the chart we had some data on Subcool Hermy gene that could be charted had we kept data for that which there was some provided, this data could be zero'd in much more precisley with (hrHr) for example,, I threw those brain cookies out there to start up your minds of curiosity to see how the level of gay is organized in thematically nature of poss 32 types of gay in this case, and when your mind see the ratios and charts by looking at nanners on lower branch your becoming a breeder. But for now lets concetrate on just 2 letters, H and h.

BreederD
,

This is very good had we not lost all of the Male genes, Not to get complicated and dont try to decipher this yet, but some see (hhhh), i can even see (hRhrhr) x (HrHrHrHr), I'm weird like that... if you keep doing it you'll start to see what the ratios are before you build your charts.

What I mean is (hhhh) x (hhhh) with any father's masculine gene's and you got a Really gay plant - that is what we do not want. Nature would have eliminated this a long time ago. This will fuck up your seed stock if you try to breed this.

So the take away, what you should now know as fact
hh is good if you have a Father Male. It is easy to predict ratios.


hh without a father, not good , this can quickly become plant the will have very strong gay issues,
Not many geneticsit will tell you this, or know this, and none will Not tell you I'm wrong on this dfinition if they use logic, dont doubt me on these gene pronunciation;
MeGI - Me Guy ?
DOI - Do I ?

So the take away, what you should now know as fact
If you're not sure dont fuck with it!
CavemanDontknow

Cavemanw
 
Last edited:
lino

lino

2,637
263
And I didnt even talk about what happens (HH).
so when you chart that , you see what I'm talking about. you could get (HHHH) if any plants showed full Dom. and then Dom can hide to, (HHhh).
 
Psychonaut47

Psychonaut47

444
143
Levels of Hermy's is best described by the greek Gods, Level of Gay. The weird sex stories with even weird strange offspring the Greeks used words that we use in science to best describe level of Hermy's zygotes, Dom, Rec, and pretty soon you can tell how gay the organism is and we can even chart that to know the ratio of gay traits in the offspring, we can do that, I'm trying to teach farmers this on this thread, My Hermy Ethics tutorial was banned so I just touch the surface of - teach gay to Farmers , Farmer dont know the American terms for herms.
Before I catchup on the recent post I want ed to say....not all homosexuals come put the closet or recognize there hormones until late late in life as far as "expression"...so, even hetero sexual don't always bloom into expressive sexual beings until late...Fucking look at the dudes that raise families and the eeeeeee n "express" their sexual orientation ...look I'm not saying we are plants, I'm saying way may mature, developed and switch evironmental DNA lights, similarly....that probly doesn't make sense but it's what comes to mind...
 
Psychonaut47

Psychonaut47

444
143
I believe it's even more complicated than knowing what genes you have. I believe all living organisms probably have many possibilities that no on knows about because they haven't done the proper experiments (which could possibly be endless) to see all the possibilities. Follow me. Remember I mentioned before the possibility of getting more herms because of causing herms on purpose over and over. There are what they call master switches that turn on and off certain genes. (and there may be many more possibilities than just on and off) Cave fish that live in the dark eventually lose their eyeballs. Many would call this evolution. I do not! I believe that possibility was always there and the circumstances that the fish grew in (darkness) caused that master switch to change the expression of certain genes. If it was evolution that would infer that there were mutations. No! There were no mutations. It was just another one of the possibly endless gene combinations (expressions) that are available to all organisms. I watched a lecture by a zoologist that said if you leave cockroaches in the dark after a few generations they will also lose their eyeballs. But if you bring them back to light they will eventually get their eyes back. Written into the code. I saw a documentary that showed that on an island all the dinosaur fossils were miniaturized. They said it was because they didn't need to be big on that island so over time they shrank. Mutation? No! Already written into the DNA code. The designer built the possibilities into the organisms so they would be able to adapt. So the old nature/nurture argument comes out again. There is a lot more to it than just what you'll find on your charts. All the computing power in the universe probably couldn't figure out every possibility.
Lol, ok I jumped the gun, I should have kept reading before interjecting....I agree with most of what you posted. Well said and great example too....I want to say more nut I'm sure I'm still jumping the gun, I'll go and try to catchup some more first before adding to the brainstorm...
 
Psychonaut47

Psychonaut47

444
143
Before we build our Breeder (D) chart there are some important points to note for this breeding tutorial.
Monocot vs Dicot does not equal Dioecious Beeding vs Monoecious Breeding
This is a hard concept for farmers and a tutorial in itself, but a quick primer for the sake of understanding
Plants (and only those) bear the corresponding female reproductive parts (pistillate flowers). In other words, the plant species in question has distinct male and female members. The plants in that species are said, then, to be "dioecious." The di- prefix indicates "two" in Greek (as in two separate plants are needed for reproduction, in this case) -- and that is how you can remember the meaning of the word.

What does that mean in practical terms? It means that you must have at least one male plant growing in or around your landscaping for the fruit-bearing female plants to be pollinated, when the plants in question are dioecious plants.

Now this is what threw me for a bit but what we deem as Hemp is found to be Monoecious plant in the DNA and the plants that we smoke and breed are Dioecious bred plants. So once that is considered in the charts, it become very clear and predictable in the breeding there of what the out come of he offspring traits will be.

All Cannabis is a Dicot. This is important to know for peeps grafting and other experiments.

So now with that said, for those of you who decide to NOT breed with feminized plants that a good idea if you dont understand. I am not comfortable growing or smoking or eating anything feminized.
A human that feminized a plant with chemicals is a GMO in the worst way for animal consumption. Lets define GMO in Pollen Chucker terms:
Genetically Modified Organism by humans using man made chemical.
Sound like Feminized seed's to me are GMO. The USDA and the like think so to and if any Fem's are found in the seed stock it can never be labeled ORGANIC, never. That mean 98% of what we smoke is GMO'd, sad, ya I know. I got straight up Organic Afi on my site. You feel crystal clear, clear complexion, drop some fat, the plant is pure and clean ol skool indica.

The science as we see. Breeder (D) talked about X and Y chromosomes to assure 100% females. This is true if your breeding criteria suggest the sex of plant as only
Male
Female
2 chromes for each plant , could be X or Y and each chrome has it traits embedded in the DNA of each chrome and this pic show a DNA marker on each leg of the Chrome.
300px-Heterozygous.jpg

You're male traits are 100% lost in Feminized seeds many times. All the time? we can debate all day long.
Just 2 decision to make in the chromosomes. But what if the X and Y control male and female and what if there is a Gene named MeGI . And what if this gene can change the Sexual Organs by the influence of a receptor gene named DOI. Well folks that exactly what happens and when humans induce 100% Females with chemicals, well let stop there and say 100% hermies in nature is very rare, but it happen FOR A REASON on rare occasions. But its different in the charts, WHY,
1.) in the wild you have to factor pollen from other dioecious and monoecious plants. So in the wild it is rare to have a plant that produces 100% fatherless cannabis plants but it happens and mother nature straighten it out real quick. You see how she fixes it with what pollen chuckers call a ruined crop of Hermy's.
Guys all pist at a breeder cuz they got a bunch of hermy's, when you breed these and look at the charts you get a surprise if you find the right Father, that where a site like mine that will have breeding stock for this very situation will come in handy big time.

2) How is good to knock of One leg of the Chromosome, the father genes. M carries the masculine genes, so what happens when strip the masculentity from an organsim, And what happens when this gay organism insiminates a female from its species or worse it breeds with another hermy,

3.) if any one keep going further with the charts to see what happens like when you cross your Man Made Freaks (hh) with lets say our seeds we made in the last tutorial, heterzygous for Tall gene (Tt), if you look back at the chart we had some data on Subcool Hermy gene that could be charted had we kept data for that which there was some provided, this data could be zero'd in much more precisley with (hrHr) for example,, I threw those brain cookies out there to start up your minds of curiosity to see how the level of gay is organized in thematically nature of poss 32 types of gay in this case, and when your mind see the ratios and charts by looking at nanners on lower branch your becoming a breeder. But for now lets concetrate on just 2 letters, H and h.

View attachment 717809 ,

This is very good had we not lost all of the Male genes, Not to get complicated and dont try to decipher this yet, but some see (hhhh), i can even see (hRhrhr) x (HrHrHrHr), I'm weird like that... if you keep doing it you'll start to see what the ratios are before you build your charts.

What I mean is (hhhh) x (hhhh) with any father's masculine gene's and you got a Really gay plant - that is what we do not want. Nature would have eliminated this a long time ago. This will fuck up your seed stock if you try to breed this.

So the take away, what you should now know as fact
hh is good if you have a Father Male. It is easy to predict ratios.


hh without a father, not good , this can quickly become plant the will have very strong gay issues,
Not many geneticsit will tell you this, or know this, and none will Not tell you I'm wrong on this dfinition if they use logic, dont doubt me on these gene pronunciation;
MeGI - Me Guy ?
DOI - Do I ?

So the take away, what you should now know as fact
If you're not sure dont fuck with it!
View attachment 717820
View attachment 717821
I apologize for interrupting carry on senor, por favor.
 
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
P1 genes carry forward on the male side of crosses ... hence, baba's haze male carry forward cup winners' finding IBL lines limit gene allele like a key into a lock and in the new F1's phenols further unlocked / environmental keys ..... the environment brings forth greatness, changes plants phenol and genetic issues within the plant. Every generation moving forward is very different as the plant changes and adapts.

Hence, no advancement coming from S1's, Fem's, Auto's just destruction.

.... even when a " poly " hybrid is made with IBL's the line is more stable as the limited combinations in allele ....the F1's carry forward ....

unlike a poly x poly cross ....
 
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SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
Open pollination ..... really .....

How much pollen combines before that " new " seed is made ......? on that single female plant ???

so finding the great plant in this mis - step is nothing more than a waste of time ..... because every single seed comes from a 1 on 1. the great open pollination meme' not so much'
 
Psychonaut47

Psychonaut47

444
143
Open pollination ..... really .....

How much pollen combines before that " new " seed is made ......? on that single female plant ???

so finding the great plant in this mis - step is nothing more than a waste of time ..... because every single seed comes from a 1 on 1. the great open pollination meme' not so much'
Got any quick pointers for popping old seed from 70's and 80's?
 
Psychonaut47

Psychonaut47

444
143
God gave us two ears and one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we talk. ....

My uncle taught me how to breed via birds and dogs


My uncle is old school and doesn't take credit for it but he did teach me damn near everything I know.

Number one challenge for me is cross contamination.....

It's like asking a bumble bee to grow and breed pure plants .....

Peace and pure breed grease!!!

@caveman4.20
 

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