The high cost of Seeds !!!!!!!!!!???????????

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Edinburgh

Edinburgh

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And a lot of so called banks are selling f1 and f2 strains witch are unstable and won't tell you how far along they are, if there not telling you there f4 or f5 but nothing there garbage, find 1 or 2 trusted breeders and stay with them, I only buy Methisto from the source, Mdanzig if I can find it, and Nirvana bc I have good luck with them and they are breeders not a bank.
 
mysticepipedon

mysticepipedon

2,859
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What would go a long way is for breeders to actually say something about the strain/cross/cultivar they're selling. There are a lot of high priced breeders who just mention the cross and nothing more. If you aren't familiar with the parents of the cross, you're SOL.

Effects, scents, flowering time and any notes about growing, like stretch, pH demands, typical nutrient deficiencies, are basic information. If a breeder is too much of an artist to be bothered with such formalities, I'm not going to be a customer.
 
P

Pike

97
33
Price wouldn’t be what it is if the demand wasn’t there. Lots of very good marketing, much like any product. There’s those that lie and scam, and those that are honest. Up to you as the consumer to wade thru the BS.

ive Said it many times, many forums, there are free seeds everywhere to be had, and You can snub your nose at um, thinking some dumbass made some crosses with no clue. So many growers working there own gear, creating excellent lines, and have zero interest in selling seed.
offer your space and time to test for outfits. Make your own seed, pretty damn easy in the smallest of OPs. I still don’t u derstand, someone growing out some seed, and not making another gen, or taking cuts of what there growing. Preserve what you paid for at least.

seems we all, humans in general, want what we don’t have, like we’re gonna miss out on the greatest thing. Commercial hype is strong, lots of studies on how to bring in customers by big corporations, they know how to work ya, lol.

prolly none of us immune when they hit the right nerve, I succumbed to it in my early days, with experience and time you get over it. And well I’m a old head, takes pretty good plant to get a rise outta me. Brought up on sativa types in the 70s, so I’m looking more for effect then good looks.
 
FuriousStyles

FuriousStyles

255
63
Not like my opinion matters, just going to throw this out there to chew on. How much is someone else's time and talent worth. Who are you to think you can set that price?

That's not throwing shade at anyone, I'm just saying. Some people get paid for what they KNOW HOW to do, not what they do. Seriously, how many of us thought of actually counting leaf serrations on the 4th node, that has the even finger count on the leaf, during week 4 of veg and know that ONE is the keeper out of the other 100 that look just like it, out of 1000 or 10000 plants? And that plant when paired with another plant (found in similar fashion) will reliably give you the desired plant in seed form. The one people want when they buy that name and grow that as a seed? As a breeder once said, "you can know all about paint, and paint brushes, and painting canvas, but that doesn't make you an artist"

I think its relative. If you make $1500 a week, $1500 a pack seems outrageous, if you make $1500 a day, maybe not so much so. No one has a right to determine the value of another man's (or woman's) labor. The market will work that out.
 
growsince79

growsince79

7,749
313
Not like my opinion matters, just going to throw this out there to chew on. How much is someone else's time and talent worth. Who are you to think you can set that price?

That's not throwing shade at anyone, I'm just saying. Some people get paid for what they KNOW HOW to do, not what they do. Seriously, how many of us thought of actually counting leaf serrations on the 4th node, that has the even finger count on the leaf, during week 4 of veg and know that ONE is the keeper out of the other 100 that look just like it, out of 1000 or 10000 plants? And that plant when paired with another plant (found in similar fashion) will reliably give you the desired plant in seed form. The one people want when they buy that name and grow that as a seed? As a breeder once said, "you can know all about paint, and paint brushes, and painting canvas, but that doesn't make you an artist"

I think its relative. If you make $1500 a week, $1500 a pack seems outrageous, if you make $1500 a day, maybe not so much so. No one has a right to determine the value of another man's (or woman's) labor. The market will work that out.
I think most people who earn $1500 a day are smart enough to know that no seed is worth $1500.
 
Johnlandy420

Johnlandy420

265
93
Not like my opinion matters, just going to throw this out there to chew on. How much is someone else's time and talent worth. Who are you to think you can set that price?

That's not throwing shade at anyone, I'm just saying. Some people get paid for what they KNOW HOW to do, not what they do. Seriously, how many of us thought of actually counting leaf serrations on the 4th node, that has the even finger count on the leaf, during week 4 of veg and know that ONE is the keeper out of the other 100 that look just like it, out of 1000 or 10000 plants? And that plant when paired with another plant (found in similar fashion) will reliably give you the desired plant in seed form. The one people want when they buy that name and grow that as a seed? As a breeder once said, "you can know all about paint, and paint brushes, and painting canvas, but that doesn't make you an artist"

I think its relative. If you make $1500 a week, $1500 a pack seems outrageous, if you make $1500 a day, maybe not so much so. No one has a right to determine the value of another man's (or woman's) labor. The market will work that out.
I don’t think anybody is actually criticizing the work that “good” breeders do. I agree with the other posters, it’s the unstable F1 & F2 being pushed out. Look I get it, it takes a lot of time and work to run out to F4 but I would spend good money for such a guarantee. There are like a billion factors to growing cannabis and 99% of it come down to superior genetics.
 
josefrahl

josefrahl

206
63
Who are you to think you can set that price?
The consumers. I don't care if you're the most talented breeder on the planet, and have put $2 mil of time and money into it. If the consumers don't like the price tag for the product, it won't sell. The consumers set the price. A breeder can say their seeds are worth $500 a pop, but if they don't sell any then they got the price wrong.
 
P

Pike

97
33
F1 is prolly the best gen for the indoor grower who is looking to just grow some smoke for themselves. i wouldn’t call um unstable, they would have the best hybrid vigor of all the filial generations, lowest variety amoung phenotypes. The F2 is a generation I would consider the best for pheno hunting. Lots of variety amoung plants.

not to many breeders growing the numbers to carry on any further, just cause someone did F3s and F4s guarantees nothing. I could go to F3 in one on one matings which would mean what, nothing if I didn’t look at enough plants to improve the line in the next gen. Talk with breeders that have that experience and most cases the seedline will get worse not better in further filial gens without large plant numbers.

does not take very many generations with small populations for inbred depression to occur, no matter how good the plants.
 
FuriousStyles

FuriousStyles

255
63
I think most people who earn $1500 a day are smart enough to know that no seed is worth $1500.
Most people who make 1500 a day dont have time to sort through a lot of plants. They want to plant 1 seed and show it off to friends. They pay someone else to do the sorting for them.
 
FuriousStyles

FuriousStyles

255
63
The consumers. I don't care if you're the most talented breeder on the planet, and have put $2 mil of time and money into it. If the consumers don't like the price tag for the product, it won't sell. The consumers set the price. A breeder can say their seeds are worth $500 a pop, but if they don't sell any then they got the price wrong.
As I said the market will work that out
 
FuriousStyles

FuriousStyles

255
63
I think a lot of us have been spoiled over the last 40 years. Not many will remember when seeded brick mexicali was all most people had. Or the start of Reagans war when things went completely dry and a bag of fan leafs was going for real money. Just being able to have access to the genetics today is a wonder in and of itself and something I am truly grateful to have. Talk to people who paid couple hundred dollars for one seed early nineties.

Sounds to me like a lot of haters mad because somebody making money, instead of trying to get their own paper up.
 
GrowHobo

GrowHobo

813
243
There is a whole class of ppl who will buy just because it’s expensive. It’s clout. It’s just a being able to flex your wallet and feel cool. Most breeders can’t even grow and gotta rely on testers to get fire plant pics. If you can you do if you can’t you breed.
 
mysticepipedon

mysticepipedon

2,859
263
Not like my opinion matters, just going to throw this out there to chew on. How much is someone else's time and talent worth. Who are you to think you can set that price?

That's not throwing shade at anyone, I'm just saying. Some people get paid for what they KNOW HOW to do, not what they do. Seriously, how many of us thought of actually counting leaf serrations on the 4th node, that has the even finger count on the leaf, during week 4 of veg and know that ONE is the keeper out of the other 100 that look just like it, out of 1000 or 10000 plants? And that plant when paired with another plant (found in similar fashion) will reliably give you the desired plant in seed form. The one people want when they buy that name and grow that as a seed? As a breeder once said, "you can know all about paint, and paint brushes, and painting canvas, but that doesn't make you an artist"

I think its relative. If you make $1500 a week, $1500 a pack seems outrageous, if you make $1500 a day, maybe not so much so. No one has a right to determine the value of another man's (or woman's) labor. The market will work that out.

No matter what someone knows, the product is the product. If you plot a graph of strains derived from seed, with seed prices on the X-axis and some measure of quality on the Y-axis, do you think you'd see an orderly increase with price? There could be some correlation, but I'll bet it would look more like a cloud of dots, all over the graph.
 
FuriousStyles

FuriousStyles

255
63
There is a whole class of ppl who will buy just because it’s expensive. It’s clout. It’s just a being able to flex your wallet and feel cool. Most breeders can’t even grow and gotta rely on testers to get fire plant pics. If you can you do if you can’t you breed.
That's what I'm talking about. I was not trying to offend any one with my comments. I am happy that someone, hell anyone, can get Pizaid for making seeds. I come from the hussle, who made more money the guy who made $60 twice or a 100 once. But we all had that one guy who would pay 200 for the same thing.
 
mysticepipedon

mysticepipedon

2,859
263
There is a whole class of ppl who will buy just because it’s expensive. It’s clout. It’s just a being able to flex your wallet and feel cool. Most breeders can’t even grow and gotta rely on testers to get fire plant pics. If you can you do if you can’t you breed.
That's a little unfair, I'd say.

I'd rather buy from a breeder who sends out testers to different kinds of growers in different locations. That some testers could be better photographers than the breeder is not shame on the breeder.
 
growsince79

growsince79

7,749
313
I think a lot of us have been spoiled over the last 40 years. Not many will remember when seeded brick mexicali was all most people had. Or the start of Reagans war when things went completely dry and a bag of fan leafs was going for real money. Just being able to have access to the genetics today is a wonder in and of itself and something I am truly grateful to have. Talk to people who paid couple hundred dollars for one seed early nineties.

Sounds to me like a lot of haters mad because somebody making money, instead of trying to get their own paper up.
The weed I grew in the 90s was better than I have now and I never bought a seed until 2018.
 
FuriousStyles

FuriousStyles

255
63
Great conversation guys. No hate or anger here. I just can not be mad at someone for getting paid. The market will sort out what is real and what isn't
 

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