Topping and Training Tech for Yields and Quality

[phenotyper]

I'll check that out.

I use the same garden wire. Very sturdy, reusable, and it crimps, so you can continue to tighten trained branches. Duct tape and bamboo poles on top of that, make for some excellent cannabis bondage.

 

[Capulator]

I'll check that out.

It comes in a little roll. Home depot garden section.

You can get sheets of driveway mesh too. That way you dont have to buy a roll.

 

[ttystikk]

It comes in a little roll. Home depot garden section.

You can get sheets of driveway mesh too. That way you dont have to buy a roll.

Good idea, will have to look at which one is less expensive for my application.

Also, I seem to remember some sort of flat 16" diameter wire frame, basically pizza sized and shaped. Does that ring any bells for anyone?

 

[cleocola]

Appreciate the advice sounds like a plan. Thank You.

 

[xrob415x]

Just wanted to stop by and say this is the best thread I have seen in a while...I myself am working on a new set up that is a perpetual harvest. Do to space limitations I might veg and top as much as possible ( 4 main shoots like you said) then transplant them into the flower room and incorporate a scrog. The first 3 weeks they stretch like crazy (og kush) I was gunna do all my scrog training during the stretch. What do you think of this?

 

[ttystikk]

Just wanted to stop by and say this is the best thread I have seen in a while...I myself am working on a new set up that is a perpetual harvest. Do to space limitations I might veg and top as much as possible ( 4 main shoots like you said) then transplant them into the flower room and incorporate a scrog. The first 3 weeks they stretch like crazy (og kush) I was gunna do all my scrog training during the stretch. What do you think of this?

Start your SCROG training a little before flipping into flower, so you can better judge how much they'll fill out the canopy. Since you've been working with the strain, you probably already have an idea how much they'll stretch in that first 2-3 weeks, so plan accordingly and flip into flower when your girls have the right amount of room left in the screen to fill in during their stretch phase. After that, it's just cruisin' to the finish!

 

[kooter840]

4 sure, you can really tell who knows what they are talking about on here.......very good info!

 

[kingjigsaw420]

very nice bro, im going the same route as u did, xcept going for 64 tops per plant at 1\4 oz per top, that comes out to 1lb plant. ive seen it done , but this is my first time going this route. so far so good. i got this method for the book "west coast masters" this book is all about plant training for states that limit plant count in their medical program, so one can get alot more bang 4 their buck. u can view a little bit of the book online.

 

[ttystikk]

very nice bro, im going the same route as u did, xcept going for 64 tops per plant at 1\4 oz per top, that comes out to 1lb plant. ive seen it done , but this is my first time going this route. so far so good. i got this method for the book "west coast masters" this book is all about plant training for states that limit plant count in their medical program, so one can get alot more bang 4 their buck. u can view a little bit of the book online.

Yes, training larger plants for big yields when you're stem limited (plant count) is getting to be a much more popular strategy. If you go this route, don't shortchange yourself in the veg. stage, since you're going to be doing a lot of topping and training and the plants need time to grow back from that.

 

[KCD]

great thread!
I am about to do some of the things you are talking about.
I was unsure of when to top my plant and when to prune all but 4 branches. My plants are about 8 inches tall at this time and I could take the two lower branches, leave the next 4, and top. Is this the time to to that?
And how long before new growth comes? Before new branches grow from the 4 that I have left on the plant?
Thanks,

 

[ttystikk]

great thread!
I am about to do some of the things you are talking about.
I was unsure of when to top my plant and when to prune all but 4 branches. My plants are about 8 inches tall at this time and I could take the two lower branches, leave the next 4, and top. Is this the time to to that?
And how long before new growth comes? Before new branches grow from the 4 that I have left on the plant?
Thanks,

I've usually done this step before they reach 8", so I'd go ahead and do as you outlined. the side branches are the ones you're trying to encourage, so let them grow.

 

[dankworth]

If you take the 6" grid laid horizontally in Capulator's sketch on page 4, but wider, and fold the right and leftmost 6" sections upward 90 degrees, then they'll make little "wings" that you could secure horticultural trellis to. That way, you tie the stalk to the 6" grid, and if the cola grows tall enough to flop, it will fall against the horticultural trellis which is 6" above the metal grid. Or you could make the wings 12" tall depending. And make the wings flex out just a little bit to provide tension on the horticultural trellis to keep it taut. That's what I settled on lately for a double trellis solution.
Oh and it's a little late, but ttystikk, I think I know what trellises you are talking about. I first saw them in FreshSteppin's recirculating 16 plant 4k thread. I think he said he got them at Lowe's. I may have seen the same thing at home depot a few months ago, but I'm not 100% certain about that.
I have let specimens get 16" tall and 3 ft wide for a scrog. I really wish I had let them get only 8" tall. I should have topped earlier. I cost myself time.
Thanks for sharing all your experience ttystikk.

 

[ttystikk]

If you take the 6" grid laid horizontally in Capulator's sketch on page 4, but wider, and fold the right and leftmost 6" sections upward 90 degrees, then they'll make little "wings" that you could secure horticultural trellis to. That way, you tie the stalk to the 6" grid, and if the cola grows tall enough to flop, it will fall against the horticultural trellis which is 6" above the metal grid. Or you could make the wings 12" tall depending. And make the wings flex out just a little bit to provide tension on the horticultural trellis to keep it taut. That's what I settled on lately for a double trellis solution.
Oh and it's a little late, but ttystikk, I think I know what trellises you are talking about. I first saw them in FreshSteppin's recirculating 16 plant 4k thread. I think he said he got them at Lowe's. I may have seen the same thing at home depot a few months ago, but I'm not 100% certain about that.
I have let specimens get 16" tall and 3 ft wide for a scrog. I really wish I had let them get only 8" tall. I should have topped earlier. I cost myself time.
Thanks for sharing all your experience ttystikk.

I like the wings idea. If the wings were along the same axis as the bulb, it would do much to keep the buds in the ideal distance zone.

 

[Extinctgenetics]

Thanks for the post, enjoyed reading and learned some as well.

 

[Mattyboi12bg]

Wow! You have totally changed the way i think about growing..I have a small space (8x5x5) so this method will work great for me...How many plants would you recommend doing in that kinda space? Like 6 or 8?

 

[ttystikk]

Wow! You have totally changed the way i think about growing..I have a small space (8x5x5) so this method will work great for me...How many plants would you recommend doing in that kinda space? Like 6 or 8?

The beauty of this system is its flexibility; you can grow out fewer plants longer to get the coverage you need, or do it faster with more plants. The strain matters too- Diesel stretches like crazy so you would need fewer of them than say a straight indica like Skunk #1.

 

[Medijuana]

I completely understand the concept of topping, but I'm unclear of how exactly you apply it to the style of grow you're teaching here. From the various youtube's I'm seeing, most of those folks are applying the topping technique to 'traditionally' grown plants (straight and tall), and they only top the tallest main stem. But when you're ScrOGing or training the plants to be nice and wide, there isn't necessarily a 'main' stem. So in that case, are you topping all of the stems, or only the tallest? Also, are you topping after flipping to flower, or only during veg? If after the flip, how far into flower do you top (i.e. when do you stop topping)?

I'll be posting an update to my grow dairy this evening with pics, so you can check out my progress there if you need to. However, I'm not ready to start the ScrOG process yet, as I'm still vegging as many stems as I can get to be ready to fill my screen. That does bring me to one last question (and thank you for sharing your knowledge!!)

Is there such thing as too many side shoots? I know that yes, theoretically, there can be too much of anything, but are there shoot locations that are more preferable over other locations?

Thanks again ttystikk, I look forward to being schooled! :D

 

[ttystikk]

I'm not the teacher, school got raided today- see Oaksterdam University Raided by Feds- I'm just throwing some techniques out there that have worked for me.

First, the limit to the number of side shoots has to do more with space, light and available nutrients than it does with an exact number.

Second, the plan I follow is to top the plant when it's only 6" tall or so, and strip all but the four best side branches. This will start the plant on its way to being a bush rather than a pine tree. Once those side shoots get long enough- and that's a matter for personal preference, strain, growzone size, etc etc- top them, too.

You do not want to top too much or you end up with a plant that's so bushy it shades itself.

The aim is to end up with a plant that between the topping and either tying down or SCRoG is roughly flat across the top. The commonly accepted term for cleaning up stems too low to get good light is called 'lollipopping' and I recommend it.

Here's a guy who has the general idea down to a science;
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/larry-og-vs-tahoe-og-in-dual-monster-plant-system.46731/. Scope out his pics, they'll tell you what you need to know.

His techniques differ from mine, but the desired end result is the same, and boy, does he have results!

I guess when people think 'topping', they think of doing it as an afterthought, well after the plant has established its structure- by which time it's too late to do much about it! The heart of my approach is to make that first top early, so the whole plant grows out from it.

 

[Medijuana]

Damn, that sucks about Mr. Lee. I'll be watching those developments.

And I've been subbed to LordJin's thread for awhile. There's something about it that I can't resist looking at ;)

 

[ttystikk]

Damn, that sucks about Mr. Lee. I'll be watching those developments.

And I've been subbed to LordJin's thread for awhile. There's something about it that I can't resist looking at ;)

Mr. Lee is getting what he's been asking for- a very loud and very large platform to tell the Feds in front of the whole world that their drug policy wears no clothes. I wish him the very best, and we can all help by supporting him actively, in all that we do. The crime would be if he ended up in prison over this.

Another thread, apparently a protege of LordJin, is 'Flowamasta';
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/flowamastas-600watt-uvb-1-plant-monster.46799/

I'm impressed by this one perhaps even more than the first, because that monster in his closet is just one very well topped, trained, SCRoGed and fed plant!

The aim is to get the maximum amount of active plant material (leaves and buds) in the ideal distance zone from the light. Tall skinny sticks are fine outdoors, but indoors a flat top is where it's at.