Lack of Vertical Integration Will Kill the Basement Grower

[caveman4.20]

It does? Please list a few brands of AAA produced by Coors and Budweiser. Please don't list shock top or blue moon. That's AAA marketing no AAA product.

outwest

Stella.artois

 

[mayonnaise]

It does? Please list a few brands of AAA produced by Coors and Budweiser. Please don't list shock top or blue moon. That's AAA marketing no AAA product.

outwest

Anyones taste in beer isn't the point. If you think for a second any major brewery couldn't replicate ANY micro brew made you are crazy. The money just isn't there for them to care. They don't think in millions they think in billions. the micro breweries have found a nice niche market for themselves but they also know the limits of what they can charge. If you can pick up a six pack of shock tops for x amount you might be willing to pay twice that much for the beer you want, but would you pay 100 times as much? hydroponic production facilities could easily produce really good product at an incedibly low price. Not to mention the ability they would have to crank out concentrates from every last scrap. Pre rolls with hash crumbles added for 6 bucks a pack, or 60 bucks an eighth that you can roll into a couple joints. And for the record I would like to say sorry if I offended any beer drinkers with my comments. I dont drink so I didn't know shock top wasn't great beer! I just see my beer snob friends drinking it from time to time but have been informed today that it was good but not great. It all tastes like hot garbage to me!

 

[squiggly]

The ideal economic models are great, people were pulling those out in the 70s when Carter was presdent. What happened? Reagan. There are tons of variables and annomilies. Culture is a big one, so is politics.

The answer to this one is simple. Using economics to talk about an entire economy is a fools game. The economy of an entire nation is WAAAAAAAY too complex to model in any kind of reasonable way.

Economics shines when we boil shit down to one thing, say marijuana. Then it actually does a wonderful job of modeling expectations.

People who pull out ideal models and graphs to tell you what's going to happen in America (especially now that the economy is so global) are out of their damn minds.

Actually one of the biggest problems with our country today is that you've got a bunch of politicians running around trying to do exactly that. In effect you've got 400 people (congress) split down the middle, with each side telling you they've got the economy figured out and know how to model it and what's going to happen.

It's a load of shit. It would take 400 supercomputers to even get close to modeling that--humans can't even get close. A complex system like that is totally unpredictable. It's like mapping out a cell and predicting which way each molecule and atom in the cell is going to spin/ricochet/interact/etc. Wayyyyyyy too many variables.

When we boil it down to something smaller like this though, we can get a decent picture--but it's still not absolute.

People in the 70's got both of these things wrong (system was too complex and they made absolute predictions) and they are doing exactly the same thing in our government now, they are just doing it without graphs because they're playing to the cheap seats (read: morons) these days.

 

[Natural]

Speaking of economics..lol.
It's a game, a confidence game..since money is made up and not really "real". The question is can the US satisfy globalization as we borrow and print and don't produce anything...lol.
The IMF wants to implement SDR's to level the field. Nobody's sure what is going to happen...but no country to date has been able to print, borrow, and not produce themselves out of debt/crisis in history...ever. It could go on like this for years though...limbo land.

I think we have past the point of no return for new Cannabis policy..eventually the laws will have to change.
Maybe the US will be the New Amsterdam for Pot Tourism. I think once the bottom drops out...when or whatever that really means. Pot for recreation will grow, but maybe it will only get so large, and Hemp could become the focus of "mass producers". I'd love to buy some farm land as an investment. Maybe we will find our way to producing Hemp for food fuel and fiber! I can't oppose this..I really cannot.
If you think about it..we really need to become a Nation of farmer's again...real farming..organic farming...food revolution. I see it slowly..encouragingly rebounding in the hearts of some. I hope it takes hold. Organic foods are a great market...mass producers have just gotten lazy to the new spray and grow methods...cornered by slicksters like Monsanto.
If it saves the US..I'm all for legalization! 250%
I'll always grow...be it for my head or my neighbors...it may just not be worth the blackmarket prices once fully legal across the Nation...I could live with that...a good trade off...methinks

 

[Pancho-N-Lefty]

This was always going to happen. Stuff that grows out of the ground can't be super duper expensive forever.

"Recreational" legislation is the death knell for this type of economical situation for growers. When we're talking mass production in a perfectly competetive market whoever controls overhead and optimizes is the winner.

The consumer is ultimately the winner in this model. This model grows organically from the consumer in a capitalistic economy, because as we all know the customer is king. Quality is important, but price is no slouch.

Perfectly competitive markets (which anything plant based falls into, especially primary plant goods requiring no processing) have extremely thin profit margins by the time all is said and done--so you're absolutely right this will price basement growers out of the market. For the same reason factory farms are the norm in our country versus our old-timey conceptions of farmers.

However, growing your own supply will still be worth it.


The question is a simple one, which is better?

A. Having the freedom to decide what goes in your body, and removing a totally harmless drug from the black market (a place inhabited by some pretty seedy folks--and a market which helps to fuel mass murder and terror south of our border).

OR

B. Being able to make money in a sole proprietorship that grows marijuana.


You can't have them both. It's a catch-22. Bootleggers and moonshiners had to deal with the same economic situation when prohibition ended. They were utterly crushed by big business.

The same thing will happen here, but the truth is that you've only been able to make money doing this in a sole proprietorship up to this point because the wrong thing was done a long time (i.e. marijuana was made illegal). Is it more wrong to keep that wrong thing the same, or to put the proponents of overturning it at an immediate economic disadvantage once it's righted? It's a sad tale because many of the cultivators are the guys who pushed this legislation and these viewpoints through--not realizing they were putting the nail in their own coffin in so doing.

Bada Boom Bada Bing!

A bunch got busted in cali today. I dunno what it is they have against cali..

"As California goes so goes the nation"
This has held true on most cases in the US. California has always been a major player and pioneer.
Funny thing is people in Washington and Colorado have basically given the proverbial finger to the smoke screen that the Feds have sent up by busting Cali's balls.

 

[Mr Dank]

Anyones taste in beer isn't the point. If you think for a second any major brewery couldn't replicate ANY micro brew made you are crazy

Once upon a time, in a time not far away, Fat Tire was DELICIOUS beer. Ever since New Belgium stepped up production, Fat Tire turned to commercial garbage

same thing with cannabis. as long as you know connoisseurs and are producing connoisseur quality cannabis, you won't have anything to worry about

 

[Mr Dank]

and as far as the legal industry killing the basement growers, I dont think so. there will always be demand for quality cannabis, and the larger the production is, the lower the quality is

I know one person producing decent warehouse weed, and I know for a fact they spray that shit down on day 1 of flower with Eagle 20 and AVID. That medicine is now poison

 

[PButter]

It totally amazes me that with all the regulations they are putting up around medicinal/recreational, they don't care what they spray or feed their plants.

 

[kolah]

It totally amazes me that with all the regulations they are putting up around medicinal/recreational, they don't care what they spray or feed their plants.

and the more growers who rely on MJ as their only source of income the more they will easily be lured into spraying the shit out of them to save them..at any cost.

 

[caveman4.20]

PLEASE READ AVID LABEL FRONT TO BACK!!!!!!
it says clearly do not use inside and should not be used outside near neighborhoods!

 

[mr duder]

If legalization goes how many of us fear it will its going to take two years for them to even come close to the demand that is going to exist. In the rush to meet supply and demand I highly doubt the real quality will be the target. Now once the bubble burst and shit is flooded I can then see the large grows attempting to do what keeps being referred to as micro brews. But if you really try and wrap your head around the amount of MJ that will be needed I can't see them filling the top end quality that the Medical community is used to.

As for what goes into the product it wouldn't surprise me to see it go the route of Cigs. They treat that stuff with toxic chemicals and if they pay enough the government will look the other way. They already compare an organic flower with the nastiest drugs in the world.

 

[purpleberry]

I think you guys under estimate how easy quaility bud could be mass produced. If you set up rooms perfect, Have workers doing certin jobs for each room, One guy controls and monitors enviroment, one guy in charge of prunning, one guy mixes tanks and waters, Head guy makes charts for what needs to be done when, Ect. You get 4-5 guys that are good and some labor to get rooms tour down trimmed and planted ect and A very large grow could produce high quailty no problem. The good growers are going to step up into these jobs or start there own companys, everyone else will get priced out of the market. Most will give up when they cant get $1000 lb and they cant grow as good of weed that comes out of the warehouses.
I dont think compairing weed growing to brewing is fair, Its totally different, once the big companys have a said cut, Like say White fire, and they can grow decent, there WiFi they mass produce is going to be just as good if not better after they have it dailed in and quaility isnt going to go down when they go from running it in a 200 light room to running it in a 2000 light room. Weed is such a fast turn around they will figure shit out and solve problems in a matter of cycles, In one year they should have a warehous dailed in Or they not running shit right. They also have a huge labor market of greenhouse growers , veggie growers, flowers, ornimental horticulture, farmers, ect They dont even need pot growers to run shit, and most likely wont even want most of us. What im going to do walk in with no job history, no college education, tats down my arms, long hair and tell them I grow the best weed pay me $100,000 a year. lol even if they wanted me they wont pay much and if they do theyll get rid of you after you set them up. Most of us will be gone unless you can get your foot in the door and open your own business and keep up.

 

[ttystikk]

I think you guys under estimate how easy quaility bud could be mass produced. If you set up rooms perfect, Have workers doing certin jobs for each room, One guy controls and monitors enviroment, one guy in charge of prunning, one guy mixes tanks and waters, Head guy makes charts for what needs to be done when, Ect. You get 4-5 guys that are good and some labor to get rooms tour down trimmed and planted ect and A very large grow could produce high quailty no problem. The good growers are going to step up into these jobs or start there own companys, everyone else will get priced out of the market. Most will give up when they cant get $1000 lb and they cant grow as good of weed that comes out of the warehouses.
I dont think compairing weed growing to brewing is fair, Its totally different, once the big companys have a said cut, Like say White fire, and they can grow decent, there WiFi they mass produce is going to be just as good if not better after they have it dailed in and quaility isnt going to go down when they go from running it in a 200 light room to running it in a 2000 light room. Weed is such a fast turn around they will figure shit out and solve problems in a matter of cycles, In one year they should have a warehous dailed in Or they not running shit right. They also have a huge labor market of greenhouse growers , veggie growers, flowers, ornimental horticulture, farmers, ect They dont even need pot growers to run shit, and most likely wont even want most of us. What im going to do walk in with no job history, no college education, tats down my arms, long hair and tell them I grow the best weed pay me $100,000 a year. lol even if they wanted me they wont pay much and if they do theyll get rid of you after you set them up. Most of us will be gone unless you can get your foot in the door and open your own business and keep up.

I'm with Texas Kid on this one; it will take them 2-3 years to figure out how to grow dank weed in big spaces, just like it did in BC, and here in Colorado.

Other than that, I agree with pretty much every word you wrote here.

 

[PButter]

I'm with Texas Kid on this one; it will take them 2-3 years to figure out how to grow dank weed in big spaces, just like it did in BC, and here in Colorado.

Other than that, I agree with pretty much every word you wrote here.

And then there are still growers in BC...

 

[mayonnaise]

I think you guys under estimate how easy quaility bud could be mass produced. If you set up rooms perfect, Have workers doing certin jobs for each room, One guy controls and monitors enviroment, one guy in charge of prunning, one guy mixes tanks and waters, Head guy makes charts for what needs to be done when, Ect. You get 4-5 guys that are good and some labor to get rooms tour down trimmed and planted ect and A very large grow could produce high quailty no problem. The good growers are going to step up into these jobs or start there own companys, everyone else will get priced out of the market. Most will give up when they cant get $1000 lb and they cant grow as good of weed that comes out of the warehouses.
I dont think compairing weed growing to brewing is fair, Its totally different, once the big companys have a said cut, Like say White fire, and they can grow decent, there WiFi they mass produce is going to be just as good if not better after they have it dailed in and quaility isnt going to go down when they go from running it in a 200 light room to running it in a 2000 light room. Weed is such a fast turn around they will figure shit out and solve problems in a matter of cycles, In one year they should have a warehous dailed in Or they not running shit right. They also have a huge labor market of greenhouse growers , veggie growers, flowers, ornimental horticulture, farmers, ect They dont even need pot growers to run shit, and most likely wont even want most of us. What im going to do walk in with no job history, no college education, tats down my arms, long hair and tell them I grow the best weed pay me $100,000 a year. lol even if they wanted me they wont pay much and if they do theyll get rid of you after you set them up. Most of us will be gone unless you can get your foot in the door and open your own business and keep up.

well put, I think everyone is vastly underestimating the abilities of corporate farmers. the warehouse grows we see around today won't be able to compete, imagine someone trying to make a living with 6 thousand watts in their basement. Invest the money you can make now . The majority of growers I've met spend all their money on toys and bullshit they don't need. they live cycle to cycle and never think years into the future. maybe this biz will last another 20 years but you would be foolish not to plan like it could end tomorrow.

 

[kolah]

And if a corporate takeover does happen how will the feds deal with these New Bigboys on the Block? If the NBonB take total control of the market, lower the prices and thereby kill off the small growers AND the potshops will the DEA then look the other way?

Is a corporate Wally-Weed soon to be coming down the pipes?

Remember too that Billionaire George Soros (and pal Peter Lewis) were HUGE "donors" for weed "legalization" (especially in 1996 for Cali MJ-med laws) and Boy-George has his hand in all states and continues to to so. Maybe it wasn't such a grassroots movement and just maybe those votes didn't (and still don't) mean shit.

As always, follow the g-damn money trail.

Who is Ol' Georgie Boy?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/dea-george-soros_b_3063849.html

 

[caveman4.20]

I think you guys under estimate how easy quaility bud could be mass produced. If you set up rooms perfect......



Ill speak for myself ....if you think mass quality bud will be easy ask the dispensary owners who hire a new grower every other harvest

 

[souf69]

and my grow goes on.............and on......

 

[souf69]

I will grow the dankest tomatoes if I must.....

 

[Tripsick]

If Cali even had a slight chance of turning Red this next election.. they would be leaving you alone like Colorado. They don't fuck with swing states. I really think they were hoping Colorado would go Blue with the legalization of weed and if that ever happens then the raids will start here.

More People Voted for Marijuana than Obama... 2014 should be entertaining as i know i'm done voting for the gun grabbers. Colorado Must resist becoming Cali... We must convert Californians into Coloradans not the other way around.