Results Of My First Aerated Compost Tea Brew

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Moto

Moto

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Love the thread and thanks for sharing. :) Glad to see you visiting Tim Wilson site. :D He has tons of valuable information and best of luck buddy. :D

Here is Dr.Elaine Ingham books that may help some people following along also :)

http://www.lifeinthesoilclasses.com/#!shop--cart/c214g

Tim Wilson Website for anyone following along. :)

http://www.microbeorganics.com/

MicrobePoster 1024x1024 1


Good Luck and Have Fun :)

Moto
 
Perception

Perception

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Perception your awesome pics n vids have made me realize I need a microscope badly.... I've been brewing teas for a couple years now based mainly on Tim Wilsons site n recipes but without a microscope I really have no way of knowing what I'm brewing if anything.... Just finished a brew myself..... Zero ,16 , 22, and 36 hours here's hoping I actually got some helpful microbes....

@Wentworth I found the microscope at a pawnshop (which was listed on Craigslist) for $60. It's only a monocular, and doesn't have any bells or whistles, but it gets the job done! Goes up to 400x.

I will say, if you can get a binocular, it might be worth the extra $. Looking through a single eyepiece is stressful on the eyes.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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I'm just going to water and foliar spray everything (indoor cannabis and outdoor veggie garden). I just up-potted my vegetative cannabis plants to 3 gallon fabric pots that were mixed and sat outside on the earth for a month. Lots of little critters in the pots now. This compost brew is to kick them off strong with some good biodiversity. Not sure what my continuing regiment will be.

24hr update:
The number of bacteria have increased a little, but the biggest change is the increase in biodiversity! I'm seeing different shapes of bacteria that move at different speeds. Also found a nematode and Protozoa.

Does anyone know what the small, fast moving microbes are? Are they Protozoa? They are the same size as bacteria, but zoom around really quickly. I wasn't sure if Protozoa could be that small.

I got lucky with a video, and caught a Protozoa messin with a nematode. Check out the bacteria in background too. I'm trying to get it to upload. May need to use YouTube. Here is a pic of nematode though.

View attachment 629806
sorry I am reading through it now I have more time, its a very cool thread btw brother. Maybe you are seeing Azotobacter, and or Azospirillium and the related Streptomyces, these will appear more like aggregate, less mobile, but if you have fast moving rod shaped or oval microbes near these strepto bundles, then its likely one or other of the Azo's. If you arent growing tobacco this is a good thing in most instances. Of course each microbe has many strains, so we have to hunt for those types we think might give us an agri edge, these often being very plant specific.

Azotobacter has a rear end looking protrusion in some cases, esp when younger. It is a highly active N fixing Diazotroph common in base soils and water

If you see fast moves, this tends to be you flagellates, but it can just as easily be the water on the slide drying esp if you add light, so rule all these things out 1st. If you do have flagellates, and these are a good thing to have around buddy, these will be scooting between your bacteria and chomping them up to release the NH4+. Once you get these you are well on your way buddy. You really dont want to be seeing many Amoeba types so get the zippy flagellates going and apply, if you can see fungal hypal then for sure. Dont wait to get lots of circular looking big microbes, these are not great buddy.
Use the molasses soaked oats to build fungal mass, did we speak about this? Tim Wilson covers it i think anyway buddy.

I had a look at your input values and these all seem in line buddy, but if we dont have good compost ahead of time, it will never make good tea.
It is also possible to grow microbes that restrict fungus :-) but increases in CO2 will severely affect them

I guess the next thing is to get an O2 meter. Rule out a drop in DO2 then we can safely say its your compost :-)
 
DrMcSkunkins

DrMcSkunkins

Dabbling in Oil
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@Wentworth I found the microscope at a pawnshop (which was listed on Craigslist) for $60. It's only a monocular, and doesn't have any bells or whistles, but it gets the job done! Goes up to 400x.

I will say, if you can get a binocular, it might be worth the extra $. Looking through a single eyepiece is stressful on the eyes.

Although looking at a computer screen can still strain the eyes.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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Great choice using your botanical teas as a foliar application. Lots of good comes from soil drenching as well but foliar is a great way to ward off pests and other pathogens on leaf surface and offers great protection.
:) Lots of good reasons to foliar I find, not least in providing a point of Ca2+ spiking beneficial for mycorrhization, where we have delicate roots that are easy to flood with a drench app. or we already have wet media or conditions where less helpful bacteria or higher Na levels are preventing efficient rhizo water uptake.
@Ecompost is this good to do? Or u think it would go anaerobic from that if it wasn't being aerated at the time? Thanks
you mix it dry buddy, then add it to the brew...see here
To spill a small secret, I’ve been pre-feeding or pre-activating [vermi]compost which is not so fresh by mixing in a small amount of wheat bran (livestock store or bulk foods department grocery store) and moistening with very diluted black strap molasses, loosely covered with cloth or paper towel 24 hours ahead of brew. (approximate ratios, wheat bran 1:30 [vermi]compost & BSM 1:300 water).
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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@Ecompost that *is* a deal!

@Perception -- your phone and a microscope eyepiece?!
Wow I thought you'd need a super expensive phase contrast scope to get images like that..... Very nice. I'm on it. Thanks:D
Right? I thought that's what he was using.
To spill a small secret, I’ve been pre-feeding or pre-activating [vermi]compost which is not so fresh by mixing in a small amount of wheat bran (livestock store or bulk foods department grocery store) and moistening with very diluted black strap molasses, loosely covered with cloth or paper towel 24 hours ahead of brew. (approximate ratios, wheat bran 1:30 [vermi]compost & BSM 1:300 water).
Aha! That is no small secret, sir. Thank you for sharing.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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@Seamaiden Clarification: I'm just holding my iPhone 6 up to the microscope. No special adaptor or anything. Takes a steady hand though
yo bro you got that.

If you had a good scope you would kill it brother. i reckon you just let this tea roll too long, easy mistake man, hot weather etc can impact the rate of growth. Also where possible, try to limit the foaming, this is bad for DO2, less head is typically a little better but i know its not easy sometimes. You can use a drop of olive oil or something to help, other people use other things to help limit foaming activity.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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Wow, I wish I could justify buying that binocular. I get so absorbed looking at everything under the scope. Find myself running late for work, etc... Haha.
oh man, we have dyes etc here, we have some really pokey scopes. its so mad to look at this world we pass over, or we read about in books for real happening on your slide preps.

I always scope my inputs ahead of time. the biggest arse ache I find is I cant grow Mycos in my ACT readily. I can grow all manner of trichoderma, yeasts, actinos, but i think may be people are expecting to see glomus everywhere which in my experience is not usual. Typically we can breed saprophytic fungi depending on the inputs in our compost piles, and often where we use BSM we tend to focus on "sugar fungi, ie those that use the same simple structures as bacteria rather than the carbon ring of lignin or other.
In order to ensure you have mutulalistic fungal strains, it is likely better to try to source a good product as a base, add this before you water in or at transplant and worth noting, you should never need to re add mycos if you get symbiosis, Mycos are a one off treatment typically, you only need one spore to connect with a plant root, dont add it with a BSM feed, i prefer to use a fish Hydrolsyate, 0.19% and alfalfa meal typically less than 0.25% when brewing fungal teas, I go light always on organic inputs so as to limit the DO2 barriers.
I personally do not use BSM when brewing a fungal tea. I find many sugar fungi also impact the colonization of mycorrhizal fungi and lots of yeasts really slow the growth of Mycos and so i do not use a BSM tea on young plants, I find BSM can breed some nasty actors too, the longer its in the system the more chance of this happening IMO.

You first have to decide what it is you want. i would suggest lots of you guys running heavy super soils, dont actually need glomus, you need trichoderma, yeast and endospore-forming bacterium such as Paenibacillus polymyxa.
If you are adding lots of P and K based inputs, you really dont need mycos you need PSB's like Bacillus megaterium and KSB's like Pseudomonas, Burkholderia, Acidothiobacillus ferrooxidans, Bacillus mucilaginosus, Bacillus edaphicus, B. circulans and Paenibacillus sp
You might need Bio Control fungus like Cordyceps, entomopathogenic fungus Metarhizium anisopliae var., Beauveria bassiana to manage the high rates of VOC released from many super soils during bacterial respiration that might be calling cards for the local pests.

Mycos are for poor soils, for where we re use media, they are not for farmers who also pour on lots of fertilsers, esp those which are synthetic salts. Mycos are for growers concerned with rates of Phosphate leaching. They are not for people who pour on endless amounts of liquid P or whom add pellets of chicken shit like they arte going out of fashion. Mycos are a tool to limit nutrient inputs, this includes teas. If you grow in super soil, I would not use other ferts, why, whats the point? The idea of super soil is to provide the plant with everything it needs right. The idea of Mycos is to provide plants with a stream of P in circumstances where life restricts access. I really see little value in Mycos for super soils, and i sell mycos. Not saying they wont help, but I really think you can get most of whats needed with simpler forms of fungi and bacteria. may be once you've grown in its a few times.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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added why else you should learn to grow with mycos ...
Phosphorus Fertilizer Bans
In an effort to reduce the damage caused by phosphate runoff and resulting algae blooms in lakes, a number of local, state and provincial governments have banned phosphorus fertilizer for lawns.

A series of random soil tests in WI showed phosphorus levels were always adequate for lawns with a average P level two and half times that needed for healthy lawns. Restrictions exist in Manitoba, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Maine, New Jersey, New York, and Florida.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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@Ecompost you got my attention with the mention of the foam. I see foam as DOCs (dissolved organic compounds) that have a hydrophilic and hydrophobic end, polarity if you will, and their presence at the top of the water column is an indication that foam fractionation, a form of chemical filtration (one of the oldest forms IIRC) is occurring.

So I guess I'm curious how you've sorted that the foaming is impacting DO levels, and how application of an oil that would slick the surface of the water column would not similarly drive DO levels down here. Please keep in mind that my experience and thus paradigms come from a different world, decidedly more aquatic, with very different goals. Thus, my lens.
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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@Ecompost you got my attention with the mention of the foam. I see foam as DOCs (dissolved organic compounds) that have a hydrophilic and hydrophobic end, polarity if you will, and their presence at the top of the water column is an indication that foam fractionation, a form of chemical filtration (one of the oldest forms IIRC) is occurring.

So I guess I'm curious how you've sorted that the foaming is impacting DO levels, and how application of an oil that would slick the surface of the water column would not similarly drive DO levels down here. Please keep in mind that my experience and thus paradigms come from a different world, decidedly more aquatic, with very different goals. Thus, my lens.
hi mate,

Exert From The compost Tea Brewing Manual.

Foam . The presence of foam on the surface of tea is considered a positive sign, but just means there are free proteins, amino acids or carbohydrates present. This can occur as the result of adding fish hydrolysate, certain organic acids or carbohydrates. If worm compost was used, excessive foam suggests a few earth worms were in the compost and their dead bodies are providing this
source of protein/ carbohydrate. Excess protein or amino acids should not occur if bacteria are growing well, although dead worms may continue to release proteinaceous materials throughout the brewing cycle. Foam can be suppressed by using organic surfactants, such as yucca or vegetable oil. Don’t use commercial de-foamers – every single one we have tested kills the organisms in the tea.

Ergo, foam can mean several things, its not a reliable indicator, but it does tell me that something is not quite right if there is an excessive amount. That could be that the foam is telling me my bacteria are not growing well, and so most protein is making it way out as foam bubbles, in itself this could mean my DO2 levels need to be checked. It is not true to imagine that a foamy tea is an oxygen rich tea, or that the foam on top is adding value. it might just be spitting your microbes out the top all over the floor as each one bursts :-)
The reduction over time of biological diversity, added to the very foamy pictures I have seen in this thread, would leave me to assume the tea had depleted O2.
I would bow to your knowledge on aqua systems and I suspect the basic principles of aeration are similar for ACT as for Fish for example, the key is just making sure that as the microbes use the oxygen, that we have enough being replaced. If we dont, we will see a reduction in bio diversity as appears to be the case here. In our tests, Teas absent in fungal content are not worth using as a foliar :-) I suspect most people who ramp teas as useless are missing the significance of O2 ppms on an ability to brew a foilar disease counters etc.

I should have worded myself better but i am not English so sorry :-) Anything that is confusing please highlight so I can perhaps rethink my choices :-) or we can do this in Estonian :-)
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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First of all I gotta say thanks for sharing your time and knowledge :). Please forgive my ignorance as I'm a complete amateur to tea brewing and organic gardening in general..... So in my brewer for that brew the first thing I added was fish hydrolysate . I add it first to allow the phosphoric acid that's added to it by the manufacturer( pacific natural fresh fish fertilizer -same one Tim uses) to be neutralized ( a technique I copied from a colleague of Ingham's) before adding my compost. So anyway if I don't add the fish hydrolysate at all the tea has a tremendous amount of foam right from the start. If I do add it the foam doesn't appear at all til about the 18hour of brewing. I figured it was the oil in the fish hydro that was reducing the foam cuz it's very oily. As u can see from my pics(second pic 16 hour, third pic 22hour) the excessive foaming doesn't start til about 22-24 hour mark. Maybe I should just end my brew there? I know I need a scope badly and as both you and Tim state foam isn't necessarily a good indicator of a quality brew but like a total rookie I was using the foam to determine if my brew was successful. Now that u mention it I can see how foam might reduce DO almost like putting a blanket on a fire especially in a vortex brewer like mine where the oxygenation takes place at the surface not through an airstone(I use none). Thanks again;)
you are very welcome sir :)
I suspect the trade off is where your microbes are using more Oxygen than is being supplied and this will be occurring for you on or about 18-20 hours I suspect. Do you have a DO2 meter? Have you any way to check you have the requisite level, eg 6ppms min O2? An Oxygen meter might help you faster and cheaper, but even these arent low cost I know. To brew a tea you really first need to scope your media, know whats missing, then you can brew a tea to stimulate biology in the right areas, not a blanket approach, more targeted. The whole point of a tea is to replace microbes that may be lost, in order to keep a better overall balance of trophic systems, thereby maintaining overall soil health and so plant efficiency. Simply brewing teas without first knowing if you need to add microbes is a point one breakdown.
We cant very well lord over chemical farmers if we toxify soils with the wrong biology because just like the chemical feeders before us, we didnt find out what was needed, we just chucked stuff about the place imaging organics is somehow less damaging. We can debate this point forever of course and I understand people want to go locakl and do themselves. I am all for powering everyone to do this BTW, but dont imagine its easy, or that by going to a store you are cheating:)

Ok I heard about this FH from PNFFF, i can provide you one that wont give you the timing headache eg, it does not contain additions, it is very pure and highly concentrated. Its called Bio Veg is is the base grow nutrient I use for pretty much everything. On acidic loving plants, i make sure i run it in combination with a fulvic acid to help maintain pH. Otherwise it is very easy to use, its proteins and biology mate not salts,
 
Ecompost

Ecompost

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Your text is great very easy to understand. You write in English better than me and it's the ONLY language I know:D
hahaha when only 1.4 million people speak your language, you better learn someone elses if you want to get by. Estonians are good with languages because we have so few people here that other nations dont bother to learn our tongue, like Welsh, people speak it, but most others not born there dont bother to learn since there are so few people with which to use it on. Swedish, Russian, English are the dominant languages, even here in Tallinn
 
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