HPS light superior vs current led tech?

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MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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Cobs are led chips in high density grouped together.

Quantum boards are the same tech spread across a panel. If their doing it with cobs. They doing it with qbs.

A chinese version of the hlg 550 costs the same for me as a 315 sunsystem cmh fixture.

500 bucks for each.

A diy version of the qb costs the same as a sunsystem 315 cmh

Not to mention Philip's 4100k bulb costs 100 bucks I'd have to replace every grow or second grow.

I'm in canada. So yes prices are diff. That said I'd rather have a 315 watt lec over a 480 watt quantum. In terms of everything other than coverage.


Phillips bulbs claim 90% output for up to 2 years with the square wave ballast. Honestly i think mine started going bad after a year. With hortilux super hps 600 i can get about 9 months before growth suffers.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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My 1 question is with LED's is take a 4x8 table or tent. Anyone pulling over 4lbs off 1 table/tent with LED's personally not someone claiming to be on a video? That has been a tried a true standard with HPS for a decade or more with old SE tech not even DE. Then take the cost. We are talking like 300-500 bucks to setup a 2k room for constant lbs for me buying used equip hell even new I would tack on another maybe 200 bucks for 2k. Lets also not gloss over the fact that if you build your HPS ballast like people who build their LED setups you start talking stupid cheap. I'm not saying they aren't comparable. I'm saying that I hear how they are comparable, and people always argue how they are comparable or even better, but I hardly have ever actually seen it. Now is the time. Lets see it. If the cost was cheaper then I would be on board (see what I did there) but at the current price I would always just go strait to 315's without much thought. I have seen COBs hit around the same but the initial cost setting those up is more expensive then 315's to get the same thing.

Listen this isn't someone pissing in your pool. Don't get all twisted and think you are getting called out. This is a conversation. Just throw it up for a comparison. Larger scale stuff. I've been on the fence to throw them in one of my rooms and give them a whirl for a year or 2. I just haven't been convinced enough to do so yet whether its yield or the quality of the finished product vs cost. @Burned Haze & @sixstring are about the only dudes I have seen doing it at that scale and hitting numbers and quality but they both have a serious investment into the equipment where initial cost wasn't really a factor which I respect. I think newer growers sometimes get steered in the wrong direction by everyones claims as you have seen from some people above but everyone is different. It's not like LED's are blowing HPS out of the water yet where there is no comparison. And we are talking old old tech vs tech that in maybe the last 4 years has finally caught up hence why the price is still so high. Why HPS is still a good option since its so cheap. Be real if you talk about getting the Chinese knockoff's and some are good do you not think they also make HPS stuff for cheap? Let's also not discount the STRAIT UP lies and misinformation the LED people pushed for years (and still are which is why we see at least 1 thread a day about this ) when the tech wasnt there and how many people got strait up ripped for trying to be an early adopter. If you have been around we all knew people who bought $2k UFO's that pulled the same as a 400w HPS. Buying/building a 1k HPS ballast will give you a 1k light no matter what. Hell even consider a $30 knock off bulb vs a $60-120 hortilux. The yield difference is small since the tech has been around so long and copied we are in a good spot.

I just wish more people would look at everything else in their grows the same way they go over and over with the lights dealing with spectrum, cost, heat ect with something like nutes that will be a bigger cost in the long run for them but strangely you get preaching about LED's and then they use 9 bottles of Advanced or running the full Canna or H&G line and make weekly trips to a hydro shop. Makes people like me scratch their heads.

Dude, ya took the words out of my mouth.
 
Ace9137

Ace9137

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Our new LEDs are sold in EU for 150$ - that would probably be 100$ in the US. (200W)
Not thousands.

Do we have expensive samsung chips aswell? Ofcurse, but these actually perform equal for alot less.

You can buy quality SMD LEDs from china, if you buy the correct ones cheap Sir
I have 400 watts for for 125 dollars(American), Chinese quality is poor and do not like their business practices.
 
BigCube

BigCube

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All this is why I actually bought a par meter. Lol. At least the manufacture of my led was very close to the advertised numbers.

I would have to run a 1000w hps in my little 3x3 to equal the led I have now. It uses 250w. It doesn't heat the tent up more than 3c, it was $120 Canadian and it has a 2 year warranty. I can't wait to scrog with it.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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All this is why I actually bought a par meter. Lol. At least the manufacture of my led was very close to the advertised numbers.

I would have to run a 1000w hps in my little 3x3 to equal the led I have now. It uses 250w. It doesn't heat the tent up more than 3c, it was $120 Canadian and it has a 2 year warranty. I can't wait to scrog with it.

I find PAR interesting, there is no doubt something to it but numbers wise it's not adding up to me. You are saying you would need to use a 1000w to light up a 3x3 the same as the LED, But I use a single 1000w to light up a 4x8 section of a semi-stadium.

I'm not saying your light wont work well, I'm sure it's great for a tent scrog grow as your pics look great, but I think it's a major stretch to say its equal to a 1000w HID in terms of how much bud you can grow with it. I'm doubtful 2 LED's could do what 2 of my HPS can.

20190321 080022
20190331 113141
 
Animal Chin

Animal Chin

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Me and my built in 2011 and still going strong Illumitex Eclipse rails say high. :cool:
They're so old I think there's been 2 new Eclipse models since mine came out. They're like the OG of COB but blurple. They can do everything an HPS can do but using about 40% less electricity.
I also use the newer California Lightworks programmable lights. Mine are in their 3rd year of use. They can basically replace every light from a 50 watt seed starter to about 500 watts worth of flower power in a 400 watt package and every light spectrum or wattage in between when using the controller.
They're not as efficient as other LED compared to HPS and are closer to a watt for watt comparison.
All together at max power I use 1050 watts of LED with another 315 watts of CMH covering a 4'x10' footprint. Confirmed true power as well tested at the outlet with a KillAwatt meter.

If I used all HID it would probably be 1200 watts of HPS or 1260 watts of CMH so I dont save anything in regards to electricity when my LED are at max power.
But my room is only at max power for 5 weeks of a 12-13 week grow. The savings I get comes from having that flexibility of one light for all purposes and not needing to turn on a 600 watt light when I only need it to be a 300 watt light for a few weeks.
There's also a user friendly factor not having to run duct work yet the room still needs climate control. And since they're small and light weight, they go great on a mover to cover a little more footprint and can be hung at different heights to accommodate stretching and non stretching plants in the same space.
Unfortunately none if it came cheap and took a few years to afford everything I have in my light system
 
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Ace9137

Ace9137

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Samsung asian.
And make the best chips available besides the German osram.
95% of everything you buy has a Chinese built board in it stud.
And a 3 or 5 year warranty is the same in chinese world as it is american world.

When building a gaming rig you want the 2080ti built with samsung dies. As it outperforms and outlast all other graphics cards using different die.

Samsung may be asian. But they are the fucking beezneeze. Alot of Chinese cob and led manufactures use samsung top bin chips.

It's well known asian countries make the best electronics and have some of the most advanced tech.

Optic 8 dude grew 2.4 lbs dry off one light. It's an american company with Chinese parts.

Do you think all African americans eat chicken and watermelon for breakfast lunch and dinner as well?
If I say Chinese cut corners on their products, that makes me business savvy not a bigot, Now all day you have said you are not in one camp or another. You are obviously in the LED camp, second all you have done is make unsubstantiated claims that mirror most LED sites, you say these are facts, then someone else said that quantum boards haven't even been out for five years, truth is, quick conclusion based on data, non applied data, that actually is theory, of course embellished and exaggerated, with no absolute actual proven data. So the breakdown, Asia has the market in electronics, sure, do they make high quality products, sometimes. In the end, I do not understand why you would imply something as horrible as you just did, it is bigoted, and disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
Kingjoshh

Kingjoshh

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If I say Chinese cut corners on their products, that makes me business savvy not a bigot, Now all day you have said you are not in one camp or another. You are obviously in the LED camp, second all you have done is make unsubstantiated claims that mirror most LED sites, you say these are facts, then someone else said that quantum boards haven't even been out for five years, truth is, quick conclusion based on data, non applied data, that actually is theory, of course embellished and exaggerated, with no absolute actual proven data. So the breakdown, Asia has the market in electronics, sure, do they make high quality products, sometimes. In the end, I do not understand why you would imply something as horrible as you just did, it is bigoted, and disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.
What claims specifically has he said? Because I don’t see him trying to say a 600 w amazon light can replace a 1000w hps and that’s what your acting like he’s saying. and no saying leds don’t hold anything up against hps is pure biased opinion no matter how you look at it 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
GrnMtnGrowR

GrnMtnGrowR

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I think, for me anyway, it boils down to how you are set up and where you are using certain types of lights. I have 3 Matristar 150watt LED lights, 1 is the S1 and has Osram diodes, 2 are S2's and use a quantum style board and the Samsung diodes. Both models use Meanwell drivers, they are passive cooled with high finned heatsinks and they rarely get above 118°F. I make lots of cabinets into grow cabinets and use tents plus constructed one chamber using would and foam. The constructed chamber is great with my HPS light, heats the area in the winter and doesn't get too bad in the summer. But my 1 st tent is only 36" x 20" x 63" and I thought having even a 250 watt HPS light in that tent would be extremely hot and hard to cool, so I put a Matristar150 watt LED in there keeps things less than 80° with a cheap 4" fan. The same for a metal cabinet I converted that is in the upper story of my house, where it is hotter than hell in the summer, I used to fry plants with a 250 watt HPS up there in that 28" x 18" X 50" area during the summer, so again the 150 watt passive cooled LED was the answer for that cabinet at least in the warmer months. HPS has its place and time to be a better choice and apparently LED also has its time when it is a better choice.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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My 1 question is with LED's is take a 4x8 table or tent. Anyone pulling over 4lbs off 1 table/tent with LED's personally not someone claiming to be on a video? That has been a tried a true standard with HPS for a decade or more with old SE tech not even DE. Then take the cost. We are talking like 300-500 bucks to setup a 2k room for constant lbs for me buying used equip hell even new I would tack on another maybe 200 bucks for 2k. Lets also not gloss over the fact that if you build your HPS ballast like people who build their LED setups you start talking stupid cheap. I'm not saying they aren't comparable. I'm saying that I hear how they are comparable, and people always argue how they are comparable or even better, but I hardly have ever actually seen it. Now is the time. Lets see it. If the cost was cheaper then I would be on board (see what I did there) but at the current price I would always just go strait to 315's without much thought. I have seen COBs hit around the same but the initial cost setting those up is more expensive then 315's to get the same thing.

Listen this isn't someone pissing in your pool. Don't get all twisted and think you are getting called out. This is a conversation. Just throw it up for a comparison. Larger scale stuff. I've been on the fence to throw them in one of my rooms and give them a whirl for a year or 2. I just haven't been convinced enough to do so yet whether its yield or the quality of the finished product vs cost. @Burned Haze & @sixstring are about the only dudes I have seen doing it at that scale and hitting numbers and quality but they both have a serious investment into the equipment where initial cost wasn't really a factor which I respect. I think newer growers sometimes get steered in the wrong direction by everyones claims as you have seen from some people above but everyone is different. It's not like LED's are blowing HPS out of the water yet where there is no comparison. And we are talking old old tech vs tech that in maybe the last 4 years has finally caught up hence why the price is still so high. Why HPS is still a good option since its so cheap. Be real if you talk about getting the Chinese knockoff's and some are good do you not think they also make HPS stuff for cheap? Let's also not discount the STRAIT UP lies and misinformation the LED people pushed for years (and still are which is why we see at least 1 thread a day about this ) when the tech wasnt there and how many people got strait up ripped for trying to be an early adopter. If you have been around we all knew people who bought $2k UFO's that pulled the same as a 400w HPS. Buying/building a 1k HPS ballast will give you a 1k light no matter what. Hell even consider a $30 knock off bulb vs a $60-120 hortilux. The yield difference is small since the tech has been around so long and copied we are in a good spot.

I just wish more people would look at everything else in their grows the same way they go over and over with the lights dealing with spectrum, cost, heat ect with something like nutes that will be a bigger cost in the long run for them but strangely you get preaching about LED's and then they use 9 bottles of Advanced or running the full Canna or H&G line and make weekly trips to a hydro shop. Makes people like me scratch their heads.
While i agree. I also have to say compare how many new LED's that are viable to achieve this and the number of people growing in those size setups using these LED's compared to HPS. There just aren't the number of quality growers of that size using them to see the volume that most HPS growers will accept to make the change. Its been done as you stated which means it is possible there are just not as many people doing yet as HPS growers. Its a big investment right now but the prices are coming down and IMHO the culture will eventually shift to LED.

Also can we PLEASE stop grouping these fucking garbage LED's in with the quality fixtures. There is a reason @sixstring and @Burned Haze can pull it off and its not using the garbage LED's.

@Ace9137 Can you tell us exactly what LED you had experience with?

I don't blame anyone for staying with what works and being cautious of new products....Look at the fert industry ffs its a fucking mess. These discussions need to happen but people need to realize that the answers will take time. LED's that are challenging HID are relatively new and there is now way to clearly validate them in practice yet. At least not to an undisputed level.

Let's not forget that the strain plays a big part in yields but I get what your saying.
 
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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Time will tell. I believe that there are LEDs that already will out perform HID but can I prove this...nope at least not right now. Does that mean there aren't...nope. Can anyone prove that none of the current LEDs cannot outperform HID... nope.

We are arguing over something that just doesn't have enough info on either side to determine yet.

I'm not talking in terms of garbage LEDs only the top ones showing very promising results.... SO FAR.
 
Dirtbag

Dirtbag

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Time will tell. I believe that there are LEDs that already will out perform HID but can I prove this...nope at least not right now. Does that mean there aren't...nope. Can anyone prove that none of the current LEDs cannot outperform HID... nope.

We are arguing over something that just doesn't have enough info on either side to determine yet.

I'm not talking in terms of garbage LEDs only the top ones showing very promising results.... SO FAR.
Well said man, I fully agree. Youd have to be totally ignorant to think LED doesnt have the potential, it clearly does. Any grower who isnt open to new tech will be left in the dust when it becomes mainstream.

But right now, as far as I can tell each system has its benefits under certain conditions and variables. The only truth I think is HID is a guarantee, control your environment and it will grow deadly pot. LED... I dont even know where to start. Some seem to work great, but a lot of them wont do what I need them to, and the ones that will are out there I'm sure, but the name brands are pricey as hell and the knockoffs are just that, can you really trust a knockoff yet? I dont know.

I also think that the size of your grow makes a difference, I'm yet to see where an LED setup can match what an 80 light HID setup can do. But in a tent LED doesnt seem bad... I dont know. I'm not convinced to ditch my HID. It fits my needs very affordably, and its brainless.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Well said man, I fully agree. Youd have to be totally ignorant to think LED doesnt have the potential, it clearly does. Any grower who isnt open to new tech will be left in the dust when it becomes mainstream.

But right now, as far as I can tell each system has its benefits under certain conditions and variables. The only truth I think is HID is a guarantee, control your environment and it will grow deadly pot. LED... I dont even know where to start. Some seem to work great, but a lot of them wont do what I need them to, and the ones that will are out there I'm sure, but the name brands are pricey as hell and the knockoffs are just that, can you really trust a knockoff yet? I dont know.

I also think that the size of your grow makes a difference, I'm yet to see where an LED setup can match what an 80 light HID setup can do. But in a tent LED doesnt seem bad... I dont know. I'm not convinced to ditch my HID. It fits my needs very affordably, and its brainless.
Amen brother
 
916Fisherman

916Fisherman

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Seem

I love how you try to make it seem like you know more than you do. First off sounds like your selling something, LED's right now do not last five years, maybe two years at most. When an LED breaks down, whether it is cob or blurple, you have to replace it. Yammering out numbers and saying it is fact just does not fly with me. More so DIY companies are financially conning people out of money for the purpose of flying the flag, Hey bro, what company you work for? More so, you talk well , your sales pitch sucks though.
I have LED
Does my aquarium planted tank light count? I'm using for my mother's in dirt. If so then yes 6yrs old still working like a champ.

I don't think people have felt the led tech was there yet until a few years ago it's still relatively new so you probably won't find much on that right now. However I don't think that takes away from where the tech is at this moment. I'm talking about the quality units/kits.

With a lot of the cobs and QB's it's just as easy to replace let's just says bulbs as HID only the long run costs for this with led will be much lower. I mean we have LED's in one of the plants that are over 5 years no replacement s have been done on bulbs. It's easy to see though other applications they stand the test of time. However the quality of components and using properly rated components will greatly affect the life expectancy.
i have 2 aquarium LED lights, one is over 5 years and the other is going on 3 years.

Some people just like to argue and wear tinfoil hats 🤷‍♂️
 
R

RolandNiels

45
18
Yea but as i understand one thing your concerned about, is the lifetime?

LED Will safe you on electricity (provided its the new SMD's) & Honestly it will last 5 years+
I can tell you from my experience: even our budget light, is tested to simulate 2 years of daily use minimum.

General life for a quality Chip like Samsung / Bridgelux etc is 50000 - 100000 Hours.

As i stated early, HPS are still very viable. But i would argue you, today a budget SMD (like our bridgelux 3030) would be better/cheaper than an HPS.

Electricity safe, Higher output, longer lifetime, lower temperatures, (no heatspots). Well alot of benefits.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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In defense of the HID guys there has been a shit ton of absolute bullshit info given out by a lot of LED manufacturers. I can't blame them for not accepting LED as equivalent yet. But some LED manufacturers have been vary straight forward and honest.
 
B

Burned Haze

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@Aqua Man
Thanks for debating with all these haters ( your being logical and not one sided , respected ), cause honesting I read all the pages I def saw a lot pissing on led’s To show how amazing hps’s are, if they are so awesome, than why the fuck are my de’s and my air cools in my storage .

I just wanna be part of thcf to help and learn . Nothing more

—-

you can’t compare a Chinese made led and previously ran/outdated tech cob to current technologies . It’s a insult ( it’s like using 90’s level hps tech hps ) it’s said people want to generalize the brands and lights to one, do you generalize you car companies to just one? I like to see real facts and real compares but also pars per pars ( DE HPS = 600-700 pars generalized at 3.5 feet and raise canopy 6-10f ) timber Led fatty ( 900-1300 pars pars ) with raise of 1-2f canopy spydrx plus 750-1000 at 6 inches to 8 inches with raise of 4-6f of canopy. Not only have I reduced my electric bill, improved my bud quality and weight ( almost ) zero popcorn where hps produce shit tons compared tons compared to it ( no matter what strain. yes it’s not 5x yields over, its like 10-25% improvements ( but man the quality’s are betters and less waste ) and less electricity? And you don’t have to replace your bulbs and reflectors every seasons? Imagine on high scale? That would hurt?

* 100 light setup compare on just heat ( AC requirements ) led vs hps
That’s

1 ton = 12,000 btu
50 Tons minimum of AC alone for DE’s (6k per bulb ) =
30-35 tons minimum AC alone for Led I general ( 3–4K+ btu and if you do cob’s that’s def over rated )

= 16.67 tons of saved power for led’s (remember that’s not counting the dehumidifiers, fans, pumps or anything else you use in your room)
So you can pay for your second A/C 50% on led’s And the led’s Want it at 80-84f with 55-65 ( depending on stage ) humidity instead of suggested 70-78f ( keeping that coolness and less dryiness with 100 lights adds up)

Most big rec/LP should run double AC what they are suggestion or have a backup AC so the AC isn’t running 24/7 and not being over stressed and if it gets any issues/fails you have your rated ( your not fucked ) a not smart LP/grower would be blind on that part and want to waste as much as possible or not have preventive/fail safes on board ( cause it does happen )

Led’s Are def 40-60% cheaper on your end results, produce better medicine ( but it’s not magic) it’s only one big stepping stone of your success . just like your proper genetic choices or anything else in your environment ( those percentages all add up)
 
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