HPS light superior vs current led tech?

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I have LED

i have 2 aquarium LED lights, one is over 5 years and the other is going on 3 years.

Some people just like to argue and wear tinfoil hats 🤷‍♂️
Aquarium led does not count, not the same concept in entirety. It is not argument to stand up for your principles nor to call someone out for their BS. Of course I wear a tinfoil hat, and I believe that CNN is the greatest news network of all time,(they would never lie to us).
 
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Mic drop! And I don't mean any disrespect to you HID guys.
how was that a mic drop, it is all data not actual applied data, just raw data. It is off a company website, sad, not impressed, more so, tell me how long do LED's last?A couple of years, does, 400 watts of led light equal 400 watts of HID light? NO ONE ANSWERED! They can not, they do not know, what they do know is commercials and adds that have been drummed into their heads.
 
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While i agree. I also have to say compare how many new LED's that are viable to achieve this and the number of people growing in those size setups using these LED's compared to HPS. There just aren't the number of quality growers of that size using them to see the volume that most HPS growers will accept to make the change. Its been done as you stated which means it is possible there are just not as many people doing yet as HPS growers. Its a big investment right now but the prices are coming down and IMHO the culture will eventually shift to LED.

Also can we PLEASE stop grouping these fucking garbage LED's in with the quality fixtures. There is a reason @sixstring and @Burned Haze can pull it off and its not using the garbage LED's.

@Ace9137 Can you tell us exactly what LED you had experience with?

I don't blame anyone for staying with what works and being cautious of new products....Look at the fert industry ffs its a fucking mess. These discussions need to happen but people need to realize that the answers will take time. LED's that are challenging HID are relatively new and there is now way to clearly validate them in practice yet. At least not to an undisputed level.

Let's not forget that the strain plays a big part in yields but I get what your saying.
I have told people several times. No one wants to listen. I made valid points, posted a opinion, and was accused of being a racist, wow on that. More so, I keep seeing post on theoretical possibilities for LED, none of it is hard data, in fact most of, if not all of what LED manufactuers comes from the Asian market, so when people talk about blurple lights, the same tech in those blurple lights are being used to some degree or another in your cobs and quantum boards, but somehow it is better. Cracks me up that everyone is an expert and posts what company websites have for their products, as I have said, all of it is pseudoscience.
 
This is my 7k led setup and my 5k hps setup.

Same progress. This is also my first harvest .
Expectations? Yield per light?
Plants are 5’8
 
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I have told people several times. No one wants to listen. I made valid points, posted a opinion, and was accused of being a racist, wow on that. More so, I keep seeing post on theoretical possibilities for LED, none of it is hard data, in fact most of, if not all of what LED manufactuers comes from the Asian market, so when people talk about blurple lights, the same tech in those blurple lights are being used to some degree or another in your cobs and quantum boards, but somehow it is better. Cracks me up that everyone is an expert and posts what company websites have for their products, as I have said, all of it is pseudoscience.
Take a look here. Like i said not to many experienced growers doing this yet because tech is newer not because they don't work.

Look i hear what your saying. But LED is not LED. What LED was it you had experience with so I don't have to waste time searching it out. I don't blame people for the hate LED has received. I'm a stubborn old ass myself and must prove to myself or have someone else prove to me before i accept things. I'm not saying you have to accept my opinions but by the same hand I won't accept the view that HPS is simply better because I don't believe it is. I also cannot sit here and say LED is better, there are so many junk LED's out there that are nothing but garbage and yes they will still grow plants too. I think your experience might be related to the LED you used IDK.
 
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how was that a mic drop, it is all data not actual applied data, just raw data. It is off a company website, sad, not impressed, more so, tell me how long do LED's last?A couple of years, does, 400 watts of led light equal 400 watts of HID light? NO ONE ANSWERED! They can not, they do not know, what they do know is commercials and adds that have been drummed into their heads.
There is data on the degradation of LED i can't remember where i seen it. I think you start seeing a minimal decrease after about a year. But its data so you wont accept it 😜 so i guess the answer is no.

I mean you can clearly see using any par meter that LED provides more par/watt than HID. So yes 400W of LED produces more light than 400W of HID. This is measurable and so is efficiency. This is true of all lighting. Spectrum will be different.

I think NASA digress with you also they have been using them for well over 10 years and not switching back to HID. Maybe the people responsible for making the calculations to put a spaceship on the moon can convince you that LED is much more efficient? This is not a scientific study but just a quick google search: https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2018/cg_7.html

And that was not raw data... that was a very experienced grower. Giving real info not copy/pasted of some website. Who just happens to grow with LED.
 
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Man I would be so confused if I were starting from scratch right now.

For a new small room build I would absolutely be tempted to run LED. Already having HID and being happy with it is a different story though, it's going to take some real world results shown to me before I'm convinced to drop a pile more money on replacing my lights.

For me, the 40% power savings doesnt mean much, I simply dont care about that. My power is cheap. For my setup it would save me maybe $25 a month. Big whoop.

The cooler operating temperature doesnt mean much either, if anything it's a negative as I need the heat for 8 months of the year.

What I want to see is growth rates, dry yield per sq/ft of grow space, bud structure, cannabinoid and terpene development etc.

As far as I can tell, high quality (more expensive) LED is just starting to match HID in those areas, not blowing them out of the water.. But just being equal. Some may be exceeding HID but not by much. When LED starts to far exceed the growth rates, quality of finished product and dry weight yields of HID, then i would switch, if, and it's a big if, its affordable to do so. But last I checked, replacing my 2K HID which currently illuminates an 8x8' room stadium with HLG, I'd be looking at a little over 4 thousand dollars for 4 boards to essentially do the same thing I'm already doing. My only benefit would be not replacing bulbs and reduced power on the lights. But I'd have to heat my building which offsets that. And then how long will the LED go before the whole unit needs replacing again? Too many iffy variables for me just yet.
 
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Man I would be so confused if I were starting from scratch right now.

For a new small room build I would absolutely be tempted to run LED. Already having HID and being happy with it is a different story though, it's going to take some real world results shown to me before I'm convinced to drop a pile more money on replacing my lights.

For me, the 40% power savings doesnt mean much, I simply dont care about that. My power is cheap. For my setup it would save me maybe $25 a month. Big whoop.

The cooler operating temperature doesnt mean much either, if anything it's a negative as I need the heat for 8 months of the year.

What I want to see is growth rates, dry yield per sq/ft of grow space, bud structure, cannabinoid and terpene development etc.

As far as I can tell, high quality (more expensive) LED is just starting to match HID in those areas, not blowing them out of the water.. But just being equal. Some may be exceeding HID but not by much. When LED starts to far exceed the growth rates, quality of finished product and dry weight yields of HID, then i would switch, if, and it's a big if, its affordable to do so. But last I checked, replacing my 2K HID which currently illuminates an 8x8' room stadium with HLG, I'd be looking at a little over 4 thousand dollars for 4 boards.
Actually about $1500 the prices are starting to come down.

But there are lots of options that are good and even better ones out there.

I agree though if your already setup and can't justify the cost I would wait too. The tech is only getting better so nothing wrong with waiting if your satisfied. On a large scale the efficiency and heat can be lead to much bigger savings. I want as little heat and the most efficient fixtures I can get but much like yourself that's not everyones concerns.
 
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Actually about $1500 the prices are starting to come down.

But there are lots of options that are good and even better ones out there.

I agree though if your already setup and can't justify the cost I would wait too. The tech is only getting better so nothing wrong with waiting if your satisfied. On a large scale the efficiency and heat can be lead to much bigger savings. I want as little heat and the most efficient fixtures I can get but much like yourself that's not everyones concerns.
That's the one I looked at, but the flower footprint is 4x4, I'd need 4 of them in my 8x8 and I'd have to grow a flat canopy whereas I can do a semi vertical stadium with 2 HID and grow the same amount if not more pot.. Also that's in USD, In Canada they are nearly a grand each plus tax.

But again, if I were just starting out with a 4x4 or 5x5 tent in a house or a spacecraft or something, this HLG board would be a serious consideration.
 
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That's the one I looked at, but the flower footprint is 4x4, I'd need 4 of them in my 8x8 and I'd have to grow a flat canopy whereas I can do a semi vertical stadium with 2 HID and grow the same amount if not more pot.. Also that's in USD, In Canada they are nearly a grand each plus tax.

But again, if I were just starting out with a 4x4 or 5x5 tent in a house or a spacecraft or something, this HLG board would be a serious consideration.
My bad for some reason my brain decided it was a 4x8. Where meh coffee 😔
 
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Going back to life expectancy, that's another big concern of mine. Realistically how many years will you get out of an LED quantum board before it needs replacing? 5 years? 10? I honestly have no idea.
But If I had to replace every 5 years at current prices that's around $800 per year amortized cost, my HID costs me about $300 per year for bulbs and both lamp setups cost me less than $500 complete to install.
If I had to replace the LED's in 10 years that's still $400 per year amortized, which is still more than I spend on bulbs.

But again I grow in Canada... If I lived in Arizona or the ISS, heat mitigation and AC would be a major consideration to factor in. There are a lot of variables to consider when weighing the pros and cons of LED vs HID. I really dont think it's as simple as comparing PAR values and light vs heat efficiency, they're really apples and oranges imho.
 
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Man I would be so confused if I were starting from scratch right now.

For a new small room build I would absolutely be tempted to run LED. Already having HID and being happy with it is a different story though, it's going to take some real world results shown to me before I'm convinced to drop a pile more money on replacing my lights.

For me, the 40% power savings doesnt mean much, I simply dont care about that. My power is cheap. For my setup it would save me maybe $25 a month. Big whoop.

The cooler operating temperature doesnt mean much either, if anything it's a negative as I need the heat for 8 months of the year.

What I want to see is growth rates, dry yield per sq/ft of grow space, bud structure, cannabinoid and terpene development etc.

As far as I can tell, high quality (more expensive) LED is just starting to match HID in those areas, not blowing them out of the water.. But just being equal. Some may be exceeding HID but not by much. When LED starts to far exceed the growth rates, quality of finished product and dry weight yields of HID, then i would switch, if, and it's a big if, its affordable to do so. But last I checked, replacing my 2K HID which currently illuminates an 8x8' room stadium with HLG, I'd be looking at a little over 4 thousand dollars for 4 boards to essentially do the same thing I'm already doing. My only benefit would be not replacing bulbs and reduced power on the lights. But I'd have to heat my building which offsets that. And then how long will the LED go before the whole unit needs replacing again? Too many iffy variables for me just yet.
This is what I am saying....I can't begin to even explain that I am one of the few that actually went to LED first and then switched to HPS after LED use. I am not challenging anything other than the claims LED manufacturers make, and most are exaggerated, if LED could match what I have, sure I would buy LED and champion it, it just does not do that. The other point is if LED saves 40% in energy costs, then the production of energy only be 60% of said lighting system, which means that even though something is rated at 100 watts, is actually running at 60 watts to do what an actual 100 watts would do, theoretically, meaning you do not get the most out of your lighting system. Cost effective, sure, actual power is exaggerated, let give an example, it can, it is possible, or research has shown. Why do I bring those statements up? Simple, the test that are run are run at the point of breaking for said item, yet if said item could run at actual full performance your LED would last maybe six months. Meaning most buy LEDs that work at 60% or less of their actual capacity, so claiming that something could match something at greater wattage than the LED is a faux statement in which you are to buy into. 2 years, either the tech is obsolete, or it will break down.
 
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As @Burned Haze & @Aqua Man said. I'm not knocking the tech. They can both exists in the same space. If it wasnt for people like @Burned Haze it would all just be claims from the company without real world testing. Respect for taking the leap and the investment. You can't deny your results. No offence but you are a diamond in the rough at the moment in imo. You don't see too many at scale with your results as most people I see with full LED setups are mostly new growers. That isn't a knock. That is just me being real. We will prb see in time as they become more skilled getting to the point I'm looking for on the smaller scale. I paid next to nothing for my equip to pretty much free so dropping a ton of money on new stuff imo is just wasting money at this point. I get away with running 10k (non sealed - no gas) w/o a/c about 7 months out of the year so my setup is on the stupid cheap side in terms of power. Maybe why I have been hesitant for so long. It's also more for me as the tech keeps improving, and there for gets cheaper, the longer you wait the more your money will buy you. I think that's a big part of why you see more of the older people who have accumulated equip over the last 10 to 20 years not just stepping up to the plate and in a holding pattern.

You also cant deny you can get a 1k bulb/ballast/fixture for $160ish bucks now new. As far as startup costs can you get equivalent LED for that kind of price point as far as potential yield? Not to say that's a better choice just strictly from a price/yield standpoint. That is the point I'm trying to make. Startup cost vs potential output. Not what is the best and brightest. I still remember my very first grow. Cheap 1k mag mh/hps. Some $10 Nirvana NL x Big Bud seeds (got to love them hermies). 5 gal pots of promix in a 4 x 5 closet and getting 2.1 lbs knowing next to nothing with a ton of mistakes using PBP. I guess that kind of jaded me from the get go and its only been bigger and better from that point on. Just hard to scale back when that is your base so lbs are kind of the gauge point for me. GPW means nothing unless I see a full racks like @Dirtbag.

Ill say this if I still lived in TX I would prob have full LED rooms rocking at this point since you need about 2 tons per 2k with those summers.

Being on 1 side of the camp or other is just dumb. Tech is tech. If you are getting flowers at the end of a run it doesn't matter. That's on both sides of the fence. If you are happy with your purchase and the final result then it doesn't matter. Also understand there are many type of growers with way different setups and expectations all together in this 1 place. Some people are happy with 100 grams off a run. Other people would cry and reconsider their life choices with that type of yield. Like I said in the other post just don't stop with the lights and look at everything in your grow the same way. Medium or nutes and everything else in between. Start really looking at your cost per gram to produce (including your investment on the equip and everything else per year). Working in the industry and watching the type of money that gets thrown around and wasted really opened my eyes to this in the last 4 years and made me completely do a 180 on my approach to everything. I don't care what medium/nute/light I use as long as its cheaper then the last and the quality doesn't drift.



I might be slow but I'm getting there. Finally switched to 315's in veg vs 1000w turned down to 600's about 8 months ago.
signal-attachment-2019-07-20-105335.jpeg


But still rocking the old SE tech in my rooms cause it's cheap and gives me lots of grams. Strictly cost approach to scale. Keeps my wife trimming every 2 weeks.
IMG_1641.JPG
 
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Going back to life expectancy, that's another big concern of mine. Realistically how many years will you get out of an LED quantum board before it needs replacing? 5 years? 10? I honestly have no idea.
But If I had to replace every 5 years at current prices that's around $800 per year amortized cost, my HID costs me about $300 per year for bulbs and both lamp setups cost me less than $500 complete to install.
If I had to replace the LED's in 10 years that's still $400 per year amortized, which is still more than I spend on bulbs.

But again I grow in Canada... If I lived in Arizona or the ISS, heat mitigation and AC would be a major consideration to factor in. There are a lot of variables weighing pros and cons of LED vs HID. I really dont think it's as simple as comparing PAR values and light vs heat efficiency. They're really apples and oranges imho.
No you can buy the boards separate for much cheaper and this allows you to just change the boards as tech upgrades.
V2 boards here:
V1 boards here:



Also how many lights are you running and are you replacing them equally?

Add in your figure of $25/month for power savings and thats $300 more a year for your HID also so that $600/year for your HID.

5 year LED with V2 $70x16=1120/5= $224/year
10 year LED with V2 70x16-1120/10=$112/year

quite a savings of $600-$112=$488/year
 
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As @Burned Haze & @Aqua Man said. I'm not knocking the tech. They can both exists in the same space. If it wasnt for people like @Burned Haze it would all just be claims from the company without real world testing. Respect for taking the leap and the investment. You can't deny your results. No offence but you are a diamond in the rough at the moment in imo. You don't see too many at scale with your results as most people I see with full LED setups are mostly new growers. That isn't a knock. That is just me being real. We will prb see in time as they become more skilled getting to the point I'm looking for on the smaller scale. I paid next to nothing for my equip to pretty much free so dropping a ton of money on new stuff imo is just wasting money at this point. I get away with running 10k (non sealed - no gas) w/o a/c about 7 months out of the year so my setup is on the stupid cheap side in terms of power. Maybe why I have been hesitant for so long. It's also more for me as the tech keeps improving, and there for gets cheaper, the longer you wait the more your money will buy you. I think that's a big part of why you see more of the older people who have accumulated equip over the last 10 to 20 years not just stepping up to the plate and in a holding pattern.

You also cant deny you can get a 1k bulb/ballast/fixture for $160ish bucks now new. As far as startup costs can you get equivalent LED for that kind of price point as far as potential yield? Not to say that's a better choice just strictly from a price/yield standpoint. That is the point I'm trying to make. Startup cost vs potential output. Not what is the best and brightest. I still remember my very first grow. Cheap 1k mag mh/hps. Some $10 Nirvana NL x Big Bud seeds (got to love them hermies). 5 gal pots of promix in a 4 x 5 closet and getting 2.1 lbs knowing next to nothing with a ton of mistakes using PBP. I guess that kind of jaded me from the get go and its only been bigger and better from that point on. Just hard to scale back when that is your base so lbs are kind of the gauge point for me. GPW means nothing unless I see a full racks like @Dirtbag.

Ill say this if I still lived in TX I would prob have full LED rooms rocking at this point since you need about 2 tons per 2k with those summers.

Being on 1 side of the camp or other is just dumb. Tech is tech. If you are getting flowers at the end of a run it doesn't matter. That's on both sides of the fence. If you are happy with your purchase and the final result then it doesn't matter. Also understand there are many type of growers with way different setups and expectations all together in this 1 place. Some people are happy with 100 grams off a run. Other people would cry and reconsider their life choices with that type of yield. Like I said in the other post just don't stop with the lights and look at everything in your grow the same way. Medium or nutes and everything else in between. Start really looking at your cost per gram to produce (including your investment on the equip and everything else per year). Working in the industry and watching the type of money that gets thrown around and wasted really opened my eyes to this in the last 4 years and made me completely do a 180 on my approach to everything. I don't care what medium/nute/light I use as long as its cheaper then the last and the quality doesn't drift.



I might be slow but I'm getting there. Finally switched to 315's in veg vs 1000w turned down to 600's about 8 months ago.
View attachment 882284

But still rocking the old SE tech in my rooms cause it's cheap and gives me lots of grams. Strictly cost approach to scale.
View attachment 882288
You are right, it is pointless to argue over lights. I enjoy what I have, I will eventually go to LEDs, when they are more practical and the prices go down and when the science actually matches the claims.
 

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