LED light vs HPS light yield / watt

[Dirtbag]

This to me is really a setup and scale thing. Like was said, if you're in a small tent LED bar light makes the most sense by a long shot. But if you have a room with high ceilings, I still think DE-HPS in an adjustawing reflector is tough to beat. Especially if you grow somewhere cold like Canada in the winter.
A ton of growers around me now use a mix of both DE-HPS and LED fluence or Gavita bar lights. I'm currently running on a slightly smaller scale with a mix of SE-HID along with 480w quantum board and bar lights to test the LED waters..

From what I've seen so far, I think LED is certainly proving it has reached the realm of being a decent replacement for SE lamps. But DE-HPS is a monster. Only the best LED can come close to what they produce, and that brings it back to a cost vs benefit analysis.

 

[MedicalOnly]

I have a hard time believing anyone who tells me LEDs and Autoflowers increase quality. That article is 90% fake news and marketing BS.

Read the article its all good info.
The article does state that leds produce better quality over hid, thats debatable but with a dialed setup i believe they are.

 

[MilkyTrichomes]

Baaaaa, I’m right and you’re wrong!
I don’t grow professionally, never have but wired up my first 1000w MH/HPS in 1981. I worked for a lighting contractor doing a lot of automobile sales lots, switching from fluorescence to MH. The lamp and ballast were in a small walk-in closet and I almost burned down the house. I’m all LED now and very happy with results. Less heat and power consumption was the deciding factors for me. You guys are much better growers than I’ll ever be but for my set up quality LED is the way to go.

 

[growsince79]

Read the article its all good info.
The article does state that leds produce better quality over hid, thats debatable but with a dialed setup i believe they are.

Not debatable for me and I use both. I've still never saw an auto that were better quality than photos. That's bs too. They are better at making money for seed companies though.

 

[MedicalOnly]

Did the article say autos are better than photos?

 

[MedicalOnly]

Another negative about hid lighting is the contain mercury

 

[Aqua Man]

How to increase terpene levels in cannabis plants

Cannabis terpenes give cannabis the rich, aromatic signature aroma. Read on for our tips to maximise the terpene content in your next grow

dutch-passion.com

Another reason why adjustable spectrum is best is you can give whats called "blue light therapy" the last 2-3 days of flower and increase terpenes.

I honestly don't have the time to sit and pick the blog apart but there are reasons for many of the claims made. The problem is other than proper dry cure and genetics these guys are either.

A) clueless
B) making claims for marketing and profit
C) a combination of A and B

There is some truth to the quantity of terpenes produced being attributed to spectrum, specifically blue (including but not limited to the UV portion) and green which most HID lacks in comparison to LED.

Also certain stresses have an impact on thus as well.

When we talk efficiency there are 2 type at play.

1.Efficiency in terms of watts to photons. (Varies by spectrum)

2.Efficiency in term of absorbance of photons by the plant. Also varies by spectrum but add to that the photo biological effects (not all light spectrums are only used for photosynthesis) and the morphology impact that spectrums have.

So while we can debate the HID to death. Science has also done so and backed it all up with data repeatedly.

HIDs limited in almost all departments when compared to LED. Plants don't see light fixtures they see photons and the quantity and ratios of those are what impacts the plants. There is no such thing as quality of a photon produced. If HID is better then it's a simple solution to make LED better than that in all cases.... change the spectrum spectrum match the HID being used and now it's only difference is that LED produces more photons per watt and is more efficient.

It's indisputable at this stage of the game. Pretty much ALL full spectrum LEDs are superior to any HID. 2+2=4

Unless anyone can show me how a plant prefers a bulb shape and name over photons? Idk I know many won't like that answer but I'm just speaking the truth as I see it. I'd almost call it fact if I didn't understand that science changes and a fact is absolute.

 

[Madmax]

You dropped something Aqua

 

[grnmtn]

My issue is heat. I run HID with LED or I would have to run a heater 24/7 and there goes any savings from the LED. In doing so I have seen some fantastic results on using the combo in flowering.

 

[Dirtbag]

I gotta disagree with you @Aqua Man. Yes, LED beats HID on paper but anyone I've ever known to run DE-HPS beside any LED out there, will tell you the DE-HPS outproduces. It just does.

If they were forced to choose just one, it would be DE-HPS for flower. Ideally a mix of DE and LED.

 

[Goblinkiller]

My issue is heat. I run HID with LED or I would have to run a heater 24/7 and there goes any savings from the LED. In doing so I have seen some fantastic results on using the combo in flowering.

Is there not a difference in the ventilation requirements as well? I imagined you would need more ventilation with hid than led. But it might be my imagination.

I guess ventilation could be cheaper with led because of reduced heat compared to hid

 

[Frankster]

This to me is really a setup and scale thing. Like was said, if you're in a small tent LED bar light makes the most sense by a long shot. But if you have a room with high ceilings, I still think DE-HPS in an adjustawing reflector is tough to beat. Especially if you grow somewhere cold like Canada in the winter.
A ton of growers around me now use a mix of both DE-HPS and LED fluence or Gavita bar lights. I'm currently running on a slightly smaller scale with a mix of SE-HID along with 480w quantum board and bar lights to test the LED waters..

From what I've seen so far, I think LED is certainly proving it has reached the realm of being a decent replacement for SE lamps. But DE-HPS is a monster. Only the best LED can come close to what they produce, and that brings it back to a cost vs benefit analysis.

What he said. Everything's a mixed bag, and lots can be done with LED, but HPS still has a gap to fill. Hybrid grows can expand that efficiency effectively.
The one thing I'll add is LED is great for summer and warm weather growing conditions, cause it keeps the cooling cost down.

Quality of spectrum is what really matters here.

 

[Aqua Man]

I gotta disagree with you @Aqua Man. Yes, LED beats HID on paper but anyone I've ever known to run DE-HPS beside any LED out there, will tell you the DE-HPS outproduces. It just does.

If they were forced to choose just one, it would be DE-HPS for flower. Ideally a mix of DE and LED.

Fair enough but why does it outproduce? The number don't add up.

Are you sure your ot comparing the 600w watt LED to 1000w DE? Cause that may make sense to me.

1000w vs 1000w there is no possible way.

 

[grnmtn]

Is there not a difference in the ventilation requirements as well? I imagined you would need more ventilation with hid than led. But it might be my imagination.

I guess ventilation could be cheaper with led because of reduced heat compared to hid

I grow in a garage in VT. Keeping things cool is not an issue.

 

[Frankster]

Fair enough but why does it outproduce? The number don't add up.

Are you sure your ot comparing the 600w watt LED to 1000w DE? Cause that may make sense to me.

1000w vs 1000w there is no possible way.

I'll agree that the DE HPS create a hell of a lot of density; and canopy penetration; some of my best grows have been under those hoods. But watt for watt; I'm with aquaman on this one; I'm just beginning to realize some of what's possible under a quality LED panel.

IMO, it boils down to technique, and it's apples vs oranges. Cause growing under a HPS is a bit of a no brainer; as long as you got good ventilation; whereas LED can take practice, and some finesse. There's more that can go wrong, it seems. But I think it has to do with how radiation heat tends to insulate a grow, somehow. There's simply more radiant energy focused over a HPS grow; and that's a bit of advantage, IMO.

LEDs have great potential, but it takes practice to get it down well; IMO.

 

[growsince79]

I'll agree that the DE HPS create a hell of a lot of density; and canopy penetration; some of my best grows have been under those hoods. But watt for watt; I'm with aquaman on this one; I'm just beginning to realize some of what's possible under a quality LED panel.

IMO, it boils down to technique, and it's apples vs oranges. Cause growing under a HPS is a bit of a no brainer; as long as you got good ventilation; whereas LED can take practice, and some finesse. There's more that can go wrong, it seems. But I think it has to do with how radiation heat tends to insulate a grow, somehow. There's simply more radiant energy focused over a HPS grow; and that's a bit of advantage, IMO.

LEDs have great potential, but it takes practice to get it down well; IMO.

Watt to watt LED will always win. But that doesn't mean the buds are any better quality. And it doesn't mean they can produce more in a given space. Will 1000w led make more buds in a 4 x 4 than a 1000w DE HPS? In this case, space is the limiting factor.

 

[Dirtbag]

Fair enough but why does it outproduce? The number don't add up.

Are you sure your ot comparing the 600w watt LED to 1000w DE? Cause that may make sense to me.

1000w vs 1000w there is no possible way.

True enough, the main dude I'm thinking of runs Gavita 1700's along side the DEHPS, and I believe they are under 700w, so I'll eat crow here. And they do really well, but going in his room you can instantly tell the HPS lit plants are bigger and chunkier.

But again to me, I'm not sure if I would drop 2K on an LED that can compete with the DE, which you can buy second hand by the truckload all day long for $300 or so where I'm at. Especially if we're now burning the same wattage. Cost benefit analysis to me doesn't add up to being a worthwhile Investment just yet for production rooms.

For a personal grow in a bigger tent or small room, it would make more sense I guess as you could control heat a bit easier and it would be nice to have variable intensity with dimming.. but I have to think those high wattage LED also pump out some heat. So I don't know, I feel like it's kinda splitting hairs when talking about which one is technically "better". At the end of the day, if I needed to setup a 6+ light show, I'd be spending 2K on DE-HID's instead of 12 grand for LED.

 

[PizzaBob]

True enough, the main dude I'm thinking of runs Gavita 1700's along side the DEHPS, and I believe they are under 700w, so I'll eat crow here. And they do really well, but going in his room you can instantly tell the HPS lit plants are bigger and chunkier.

But again to me, I'm not sure if I would drop 2K on an LED that can compete with the DE, which you can buy second hand by the truckload all day long for $300 or so where I'm at. Especially if we're now burning the same wattage. Cost benefit analysis to me doesn't add up to being a worthwhile Investment just yet for production rooms.

For a personal grow in a bigger tent or small room, it would make more sense I guess as you could control heat a bit easier and it would be nice to have variable intensity with dimming.. but I have to think those high wattage LED also pump out some heat. So I don't know, I feel like it's kinda splitting hairs when talking about which one is technically "better". At the end of the day, if I needed to setup a 6+ light show, I'd be spending 2K on DE-HID's instead of 12 grand for LED.

And if you are legit legal putting up a mid sized room (50-200+) then go get the used DEs. Get going then call the power company. They will give you tons of cash to go LED. Dare to ask why?

The power factor (PF) differential. HPS are 80 ish while LEDs run around 96. So they save that 16% since it’s lost. They produce it but doesn’t “spin” the meter. So go cheap make a buck and get the power company to subsidize your upgrade. I know a real ass hole that gave me the LD. Lol.

But if you’re a big grower 500+ you’ll be on rate that already compensates for PF.

 

[Aqua Man]

Watt to watt LED will always win. But that doesn't mean the buds are any better quality. And it doesn't mean they can produce more in a given space. Will 1000w led make more buds in a 4 x 4 than a 1000w DE HPS? In this case, space is the limiting factor.

That's kinda where is sit too... if your maxing your light your maxing your light... no matter how many watts it takes.

 

[MedicalOnly]

I honestly don't have the time to sit and pick the blog apart but there are reasons for many of the claims made. The problem is other than proper dry cure and genetics these guys are either.

A) clueless
B) making claims for marketing and profit
C) a combination of A and B

There is some truth to the quantity of terpenes produced being attributed to spectrum, specifically blue (including but not limited to the UV portion) and green which most HID lacks in comparison to LED.

Also certain stresses have an impact on thus as well.

When we talk efficiency there are 2 type at play.

1.Efficiency in terms of watts to photons. (Varies by spectrum)

2.Efficiency in term of absorbance of photons by the plant. Also varies by spectrum but add to that the photo biological effects (not all light spectrums are only used for photosynthesis) and the morphology impact that spectrums have.

So while we can debate the HID to death. Science has also done so and backed it all up with data repeatedly.

HIDs limited in almost all departments when compared to LED. Plants don't see light fixtures they see photons and the quantity and ratios of those are what impacts the plants. There is no such thing as quality of a photon produced. If HID is better then it's a simple solution to make LED better than that in all cases.... change the spectrum spectrum match the HID being used and now it's only difference is that LED produces more photons per watt and is more efficient.

It's indisputable at this stage of the game. Pretty much ALL full spectrum LEDs are superior to any HID. 2+2=4

Unless anyone can show me how a plant prefers a bulb shape and name over photons? Idk I know many won't like that answer but I'm just speaking the truth as I see it. I'd almost call it fact if I didn't understand that science changes and a fact is absolute.

They have won over 70 cannabis cups so they might be onto something.