Legit experienced growers enter here.

[2Water]

Here's an example of how/why we can simplify things for NGs.

These seeds were under 100% humidity for 5 days. I put them in the rockwool yesterday and left uncovered at 35% humidity. Earlier today it was 39% and a few hours later it crept up into the 40s. Not ideal but do you see a problem?

Now if I was to tell a NG to keep the humidity high, cover them with a dome, the seedling will grow and neglect the roots causing leggy seedlings. Now the NG may have problems with floppy plants, problem with keeping the humidity just right, and now they gotta harden them off. I don't know about you but I hate hardening plants off. It's not hard but if you get caught slipping hardening off isn't so easy, there's a delicate balance there, why put NGs through that? I know what I'm doing and I don't want to mess with any of that stuff ya know? Why burden them?

We can eliminate humidity talk for 90% of NGs and let them know they won't have to worry about humidity till a month into flowering. Nice and easy, set your dehumidifier to 55 on day one (because it's usually close enough to 60 when it kicks on) and forget about it till a month into flowering.

That's how I roll, I don't put effort into humidity till a month into flowering. I know I sound crazy but the proof is in the puddin. How much more extreme can I get with abusing seedlings to get people to understand that humidity isn't that important?

Everywhere I look I see humidity abuse, even humidifiers in tents with fully veggies plants. So much effort and money is spent on humidity cluttering up grow tents with humidity equipment. It's really determental a lot of the times.

I get it tho, humidity, as simple as it is, gets a lot of attention. It's relatively easy, NGs feel accomplished and proud when they get their humidity just right. Kinda like a badge of honor.

But to ignore vpd completely will lead to new growers who start question why their plant isn't as vigorous or doesnt veg as fast. This kind of leads us back to the whys over the hows

It can be very disheartening to watch other growers plants flourish while their's looks "weak"

 

[ACSippi]

Remember, we're talking about New Growers. They don't know anything. How can they tell if their plant is flourishing or not? I basically can't tell because genetics come into play.

VPD is for scientists. Unneeded for growers unless they're board and want to mess around. I hate it even became a thing. You do know it started as a way to fight Powdery Mildew within the past 6-8 years. Thought to be the golden ticket. Overnight that was forgotten about and VPD became the standard with no explanation. Like it's always been a thing but it hasn't.

You're not thinking about what I'm trying to do. Cultivation 101. Save the science talk for people that already know what VPD is so you dont have to explaine what VPS is in the first place. Steer NGs away from things that arnt critical. After that the field is wide open ya know?

I learned about VPD when a well known breeder had PM problems. I suggested just using UVc but looked into VPG and quickly realized it's not good overall for Cannabis. The breeder still had PM problems and I let them know again, UVc. They never responded but soon after I haven't heard them say a word about PM. I wasn't expecting a response as I just made a comment. Maybe one day I'll contact them and ask how they got rid of their PM and see what they say. I don't like bothering those guys because they always take time out of their day to respond to me and I just got done having a conversation with them. If I were to bet I'd say they bailed on VPD and lit up some UVc bulbs.

 

[cannafarmer420]

I am a firm believer in following VPD, more advanced for new growers, but basing grows on arbitrary rh %s (I feel) is part of the hard time for new growers

My trepidation with VPD for newbies is simply the fact that blindly following VPD will get you bud rot/PM real quick in flower. Also there are too many different VPD charts it can be confusing ✌

 

[Captspaulding]

My trepidation with VPD for newbies is simply the fact that blindly following VPD will get you bud rot/PM real quick in flower. Also there are too many different VPD charts it can be confusing ✌

 

[Captspaulding]

I have a rough draft written. It needs some work still but I’ll be sending something soon it soon.

 

[2Water]

My trepidation with VPD for newbies is simply the fact that blindly following VPD will get you bud rot/PM real quick in flower. Also there are too many different VPD charts it can be confusing ✌

That isn't an understanding of vpd or proper ventilation and circulation though. All these things are equally important.

I think people see the charts and are told just to by the rh% or that, VPD affectS respiration, nutrient uptake, and can be the true reason behind what might appear to be a nutrient deficiency.

Is it necessary to grow by VPD? No

Is it necessary to understand what it is, what it does and all of the components behind VPD? YES

 

[2Water]

Sorry if I'm being a pain in the butt, but I was in these new growers shoes a little under a year and a half. My saving grace was because I took the time to learn for myself. Most people dont want to learn, just follow directions

 

[ACSippi]

I want to work together with yall to build a knowledge base. None of us are wrong.
We're blurring simplicity and advanced. We have a wide range of growers here from Noobs to actual scientists.

The problem we as a community has had for decades is everyone trying to be helpful, even if they've never grown a plant before. These communities are the most lovingist and at the same time argumentative. Again, for the most part we're all right.

People who love VPD, go for it! But I ain't splaining that to a NG and I don't want you to either because now they're distracted. NGs, fahgitaboutit till youre experienced!

Another thing about NGs, most of them can't even keep their humidity right even when I give them a wide range. I can't expect them to follow VPD.

If I told a NG on day 1 to set their Dehumidifier at 55 and their AC to xx° then ignore humidity till a month into flower where they'll want to step it down 5% every week...there's no failure rate, no stunted plants, nothing negative. There's nothing to debate as everyone should say 'yup that'll work!' They don't even need a dehumidifier till flower, just getting them used to it being a very important piece of equipment during flower.

One thing I've learned is sometimes people have already helped someone. It may not be what I'd advise but it doesn't mean it's bad information. I gotta catch myself and ask myself, 'will that work? Ahh yes!' Then go about my business.

There can be levels of experience. Tightening up the grow every step of the way.

If we can can agree on hella wide parameters or things not critical it would be easier for everyone when it comes to NGs.

 

[ACSippi]

can be the true reason behind what might appear to be a nutrient deficiency.

I know  exactly what youre talking about. You're close but so far away. That's not VPD. It's on that science level tho, wrong tree.

 

[ACSippi]

Sorry if I'm being a pain in the butt

No you're being helpful. It gives me ideas how to navigate something that's never been navigated, trying to turn us into a team.

 

[ACSippi]

I have a rough draft written. It needs some work still but I’ll be sending something soon it soon.

No rush! It takes time. I'm just starting myself. Redoing videos and now I stumbled onto a whole new project, in the past 18 hours I've turned a 180. I'm still doing the beginner grow tutorial seed to harvest but I got to fit in a unique breeding project without confusing a new grower.

 

[2Water]

I know  exactly what youre talking about. You're close but so far away. That's not VPD. It's on that science level tho, wrong tree.

I was trying to keep it "basic" but in layman terms how is saying vpd affect those processes incorrect? Once again, the hows and whys. We have 2 different teaching and learning styles.

 

[2Water]

Honestly might help everyone @ACSippi if you define what you refer to as VPD.

For me it is an understanding of transpiration and how that interacts with the plants ability to photosynthesize either the water/nutrients they are being provided and the light energy it is receiving.

Understanding proper nutrition, lighting, and environmental inputs are important.

 

[ACSippi]

I was trying to keep it "basic" but in layman terms how is saying vpd affect those processes incorrect? Once again, the hows and whys. We have 2 different teaching and learning styles.

You said 'can' and 'might.' That gave me the impression that you're not sold on VPD correction fixing those problems. Your intuition is telling you something. I'm not going to say and I hope no one else does, that info can turn bum businesses run by slime into cocky winners with inflated egos. Bigger than the egos their scummy butts already have. Don't mind me, there's a business run by not good people that tried weaseling that information out of me by sending a woeful and pitiful veteran that needed help with that exact problem. Trying to take advantage of me because they know I'll drop what I'm doing to help a vet. Too bad for them I knew things and sent their little minion back to them empty handed.

 

[ACSippi]

Honestly might help everyone @ACSippi if you define what you refer to as VPD.

For me it is an understanding of transpiration and how that interacts with the plants ability to photosynthesize either the water/nutrients they are being provided and the light energy it is receiving.

Understanding proper nutrition, lighting, and environmental inputs are important.

I'm not a scientist nor do I grow in lab conditions. VPD isn't important enough for me to waste time studying and tweaking it. My plants only live 3-4 months tops. I don't have nor could I afford the equipment to deep dive into my plants health like that.

What meter do you use to measure the plants perspiration? You'd have to check each plant. What's a good perspiration rate? What's the general window size of a good reading? Do you test perspiration at the top, middle or bottom of the plant?

You can read about that stuff but if you're not testing then how does anyone know what's just right? Are all cultivars the same because if not...there's a lot of phenos out there. Some plants are genetically hardened for super dry weather, some not so dry. Do they have different perspiration rates?

Does anyone know what the perfect VPD for Cannabis is? Are the charts even right for Cannabis?

One weak link in the chain and it's a waste of time.

 

[Mikedin]

Big thing I’ve noticed with folks starting out over the years-is a lack of patience and discipline, over analyzing and taking actions that results in negative ways in there grows.

Aka people coddle their plants too much, they see a leaf or 2 getting yellowed, start asking questions, people atart throwing out defs left and right (cal def most commonly) when the simplest solution (or quickest immediate actions they should do is simply… turn down the power 10% and raise the lights up 3-4” and let the plant recover for a dry cycle or 2.

Instead they throw a triple wack of nitrogen at it, next thing they know their leaf tips are burnt and leaves are curling under and waxy as hell…

Another thing is people thinking their plants won’t produce if they can’t get their light to 100%… this one gets me the most, I wayyyy overpower my lights usually… I like to run mine in the 60-75% range max in flower, (my 840w light I’m usually pulling 500-600w max), helps with heat control as well, especially with non-detachable drivers.

 

[Bdubs]

I want to work together with yall to build a knowledge base. None of us are wrong.
We're blurring simplicity and advanced. We have a wide range of growers here from Noobs to actual scientists.

The problem we as a community has had for decades is everyone trying to be helpful, even if they've never grown a plant before. These communities are the most lovingist and at the same time argumentative. Again, for the most part we're all right.

People who love VPD, go for it! But I ain't splaining that to a NG and I don't want you to either because now they're distracted. NGs, fahgitaboutit till youre experienced!

Another thing about NGs, most of them can't even keep their humidity right even when I give them a wide range. I can't expect them to follow VPD.

If I told a NG on day 1 to set their Dehumidifier at 55 and their AC to xx° then ignore humidity till a month into flower where they'll want to step it down 5% every week...there's no failure rate, no stunted plants, nothing negative. There's nothing to debate as everyone should say 'yup that'll work!' They don't even need a dehumidifier till flower, just getting them used to it being a very important piece of equipment during flower.

One thing I've learned is sometimes people have already helped someone. It may not be what I'd advise but it doesn't mean it's bad information. I gotta catch myself and ask myself, 'will that work? Ahh yes!' Then go about my business.

There can be levels of experience. Tightening up the grow every step of the way.

If we can can agree on hella wide parameters or things not critical it would be easier for everyone when it comes to NGs.

Because what you should be referring to is LVPD. And educate the room. What are we talking about now? Not growing by VPD standards?

 

[2Water]

Like you said, you're NOT interested in taking the time to learn it. But you want to teach temp, rh, lighting.... all attributes to what I am referring to. There is a graduate level scientific understanding or a practical understanding of the mechanics to help learn how to "read" and respond to plants. This is very necessary for organic soil growers who do not bottle feed our plants. Not sure what you're other post was referring to about vets, but

 

[2Water]

Just to use myself (a relatively new grower) as an anecdotal example, i have played with and recorded for myself how adjusting the vpd in my tent can speed up or slow my vegetative growth. I needed my MACdawg to veg slower so I let them coast 0.8 kpa.

Once again, anecdotal evidence from a new/poor home grower. But my point is still the the same, some learners need the why and hows, not just be told which directions to follow


***edited for fat fingers

 

[Captspaulding]

Aka people coddle their plants too much, they see a leaf or 2 getting yellowed, start asking questions, people atart throwing out defs left and right (cal def most commonly) when the simplest solution (or quickest immediate actions they should do is simply… turn down the power 10% and raise the lights up 3-4” and let the plant recover for a dry cycle or 2.

Instead they throw a triple wack of nitrogen at it, next thing they know their leaf tips are burnt and leaves are curling under and waxy as hell…

Another thing is people thinking their plants won’t produce if they can’t get their light to 100%… this one gets me the most, I wayyyy overpower my lights usually… I like to run mine in the 60-75% range max in flower, (my 840w light I’m usually pulling 500-600w max), helps with heat control as well, especially with non-detachable drivers.

Yeah, finding someone at 16in from canopy at 80% when they are just barely into full veg….
EASY TIGER……pump the brakes.
Whoa Nelly…..too much nitrogen, to large a pot and lights cranked to 11 because this tick toc video I saw one time.