***Saturation Levels Of Dissolved Oxygen In Relation To Water Temperature***

  • Thread starter Ben Derdundat
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Papa

Papa

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Lost,
i think i see what you're asking . . . and after rereading ben's post i think i see the problem.

ben wrote: "Here is a list of water temperatures and the amounts of dissolved oxygen that water contains in relation to these temperatures:"

as i understand it, it should have read "Here is a list of water temperatures and the saturation level of dissolved oxygen that water may be able to achieve:"

as i understand it, there is a maximum level of dissolved oxygen (DO) in water that can be achieved. this maximum level is referred to as the "Saturation Level." the saturation level can vary because of at least three factors: temperature, TDS, and atmospheric pressure.

by cooling our reservoirs, we are trying to increase the capacity of our water to hold more DO.

let's take your example: a reservoir of 74°F nuted water with DO of 6.3 ppm. perhaps it's stagnant, maybe it was aerated a while ago, maybe not, we don't know. what we do know is that it's 74°F and has a DO of 6.3 ppm.

ben's post tells us that 74°F water (likely 0 TDS and at sea level) is capable (in ideal lab conditions) of achieving a maximum of 8.5 ppm of DO.

your 74°F nuted water at a DO of 6.3 ppm isn't yet saturated. (maybe it is, depending on how much stuff you've added to it, maybe not).

let's stick a venturi in that bucket and see if we can get those DO numbers up!

yep, that's great, we've aerated the bucket with a venturi and the DO has risen to 7.6 ppm! that's about 20%!


what ben's post tells us is that no matter how long we keep that venturi going, and no matter how pure we make the water . . . we ain't never getting the DO higher than 8.5 . . . unless we drop the temperature. if we drop the temperature from 74°F to 65°F >>>> we may be able to achieve an additional 10% increase in DO!!

i hope this helps.










Papa
 
L

Lost

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What I think we also need in this thread is a metabolic rate of roots VS. Temp. That would give us the 3 biggest variables and so we can finally tackle a range or formula for calculating nute temp based on a given PPM look for optimal DO level, etc, etc
 
J

jakew215

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Well dickwad I put as much facts as the next and looking at your posts my mistakes offer more. I try to be polite to my fellow farmers but at the same time I feel I should be as verbal. You want a respectful answers you kind of got to show some, Bitch.

i dont ever see you being polite im sorry, also sorry for being "verbal" myself. i DO believe you have a lot to offer, just seems your being awfully negative towards others in a majority of the posts i read.

and reading back on my last post i obviously dont do a good job of portraying myself on here, didnt really mean to come off so rude. ive just read other things that i just really didnt agree with how you approached, and me being a immature 22 yo i just blurt out how i feel. not proud of it 6 hours later.

i apologize again, ill try to hold my tongue more often guys, stay on topic. try to be more respectful, i could use your respect and help.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

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The reason I mention it is because of this here:

When we measured DO in our greenhouse reservoirs, we found that a 74°F (23°C) nutrient tank at an EC of 2 had a DO of 6.3 ppm (low because of salts and sitting still). When we turned on an eductor (venturi), which we do in ALL reservoirs, we received a reading of 7.6 ppm. BIG difference. That’s an increase of 1.3 ppm without changing temperature.

So a sitting solution and a venturi airated one will have 2 different readings.

I agree the #'s are hard #'s but under what circutstances? Is this a solution that has been as airated and that is the number? Or is that a stagnant solution, non airated.

Hope that makes sence.
I thought this was the same paper, but no.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w172rg362h301r04/

It's extremely important to make a distinction here that JK has mentioned--bubble size. A good venturi is going to create superfine bubbles. (Put those in a reaction chamber and you have foam fractionation, I think I've mentioned that somewhere else) I'm thinking that if you have sufficient ratio of bubbles:water volume, those bubbles themselves may actually be the exchange site. Goes against what I've learned/been taught previously, but then there's that paper, with their hard numbers and all.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
I have no problems with disagreement. Pointing out I did not say why I disagreed was ok(you were somewhat right) but it was how you went about it. Sat Nam JK
i dont ever see you being polite im sorry, also sorry for being "verbal" myself. i DO believe you have a lot to offer, just seems your being awfully negative towards others in a majority of the posts i read.

and reading back on my last post i obviously dont do a good job of portraying myself on here, didnt really mean to come off so rude. ive just read other things that i just really didnt agree with how you approached, and me being a immature 22 yo i just blurt out how i feel. not proud of it 6 hours later.

i apologize again, ill try to hold my tongue more often guys, stay on topic. try to be more respectful, i could use your respect and help.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
JK i could of sworn you were a bubble man while fatman (when he was posting here) argued the opposite of you. I was trying to dig that thread up but i guess the mod deleted it.

If you mean by bubbleman I believe in pumping air into my rez and plumbing you are right. I believe in using a regen pump and pumping massive air. I use this and a lot of water movement in my rcdwc but it has nothing to do with D.O. It is what makes my tanks really work better then others. If you can punch out your nutes with saturated DO and move it quick enough I do not believe you will need to put airstones with you plants for them to absorb O from the water. But your plants will suffer if you do not use water movement and airbubbles in with your roots for another reason. JK
 
J

jakew215

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I do not believe you will need to put airstones with you plants for them to absorb O from the water. But your plants will suffer if you do not use water movement and airbubbles in with your roots for another reason. JK

Please elaborate, you think the plant absorbs O out of the water without bubbles but you still need to add bubbles?

I dont understand.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

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Bubbles do other things besides providing O to the water. If you provide enough O to the water in your rez or plumbing you do not need to provide air in the root zone as long as you have proper water movement. JK
 
J

jakew215

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Bubbles do other things besides providing O to the water. If you provide enough O to the water in your rez or plumbing you do not need to provide air in the root zone as long as you have proper water movement. JK

exactly my question, what are the other things that they do? Why do i need an airstone under the plant if you can provide the D.O. elsewhere.
 
Papa

Papa

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exactly my question, what are the other things that they do? Why do i need an airstone under the plant if you can provide the D.O. elsewhere.


JK just answered your question.

water movement.
 
L

Lost

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as long as you have proper water movement. JK

While I agree with this to a point, I think that whatever the airstone provides, it is essential after a certain size. The water movement needed to be pretty rapid. The bigger the plant the faster the exchange needs to be. Ever have a tub without an airstone? The plant growth almost slows to a crawl compared to the other girls.
 
J

jakew215

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JK just answered your question.

water movement.

im sorry i dont know if i believe all that.

i think an air stone provides DO to the water. i realize you guys have a TON of experience but like lost said take the airstone out of a bucket and it slows growth to a crawl.

i think the D.O. of water would fluctuate a LOT depending on conditions. i mean you add air stone to a fish tank to add D.O. right? i dont think they put them in there for water movement...

like if you had an air stone in your res or control bucket i think the water exiting those tubs will have a high DO but as it travels to your plant a lot of the oxygen would rise out of the water, resulting in a low D.O. when it arrives at the plant, resulting in a choked plant. this is all my just opinion, i have ZERO real world experience with any of this. i just disagree.

i think we need to know how LONG D.O. stays at saturated levels and what is detrimental to keeping high D.O. levels.

i could be way off here. just trying to stimulate some thoughts.
 
J

jakew215

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okay. fine.










Papa

necessary? i wasnt even disagreeing with you papa, just questioning JK's thoughts on the subject.

why does EVERYONE on here have an ego? like get over yourselves, you can grow dank pot, doesnt make me an inferior person because im young and dont have the experience. is it wrong for me to question or to disagree?

its obviously okay for JK to just disagree without any valid points to why he thinks that.

i come out and say i disagree with reasons WHY i think that and you have to a smartass? like seriously?

this shit is just outrageous. you guys tells me to be respectful and i start being respectful after I eat my words AND APOLOGIZE, something i have yet to see anyone else do, and you guys still act like your shit dont stink and you've never asked a stupid question in your life.

get over your ego's we're all here for the same reason.

if you think my statements are wrong, tell me WHY you think this. educate. your post did not help anyone papa.
 
B

Bobby Smith

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Hey Jake, in Papa's defense, you're arguing a point against a bunch of veteran growers who are saying something contrary to what you "think".

They have years of experience backing up their point of view; to back up your view(s), you say "this is all my just opinion, i have ZERO real world experience with any of this. i just disagree."

You can kind of see where they wouldn't take your disagreement seriously, can't you?

Just sayin' man........smoke a joint and relax, no biggie.
 
J

Jalisco Kid

Guest
necessary? i wasnt even disagreeing with you papa, just questioning JK's thoughts on the subject.

why does EVERYONE on here have an ego? like get over yourselves, you can grow dank pot, doesnt make me an inferior person because im young and dont have the experience. is it wrong for me to question or to disagree?

its obviously okay for JK to just disagree without any valid points to why he thinks that.

i come out and say i disagree with reasons WHY i think that and you have to a smartass? like seriously?

this shit is just outrageous. you guys tells me to be respectful and i start being respectful after I eat my words AND APOLOGIZE, something i have yet to see anyone else do, and you guys still act like your shit dont stink and you've never asked a stupid question in your life.

get over your ego's we're all here for the same reason.

if you think my statements are wrong, tell me WHY you think this. educate. your post did not help anyone papa.

You should be aerating your nutes,do I feel it needs to be done at the bucket, no. I aerate the nutes in my rez, I also do this in my feed lines. Since I do that I do not believe I need to do it at the bucket.My round trip for my nutes is a short amount of time using 2" lines and a combo of 2" and 3" drain pipes. I put air in my tanks for another reason which also has nothing to do with water movement. And no I will not say why.
People respond to a post, not to you. We have no idea how ugly,smart,rich you are so you need to take your ego out. You have the right to an explanation if someone disagrees, just ask why do you think that. And remember we are not disagreeing with YOU we are disagreeing with your thoughts. I never take it personally when on a board because people have no clue who/what I am. And I can relate to you because you attacked me saying I was/am a mean dick. When all my friends would disagree. It is just the way things come out when read something then what you would come away with if we carried on a conversation. We need tonal,and visual clues that are not in posts. JK
 
J

jakew215

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im not asking them to take it seriously. im looking to learn something.

i have clearly said that have much more experience than i.

i just want know there thought process behind it. think of it as the student (myself) asking the teacher (experienced ones in this thread) how they think the water provides DO without an air stone.

i just dont understand, im sorry, once again...

everytime i say something i have someone else right behind me saying DONT QUESTION THEM THEY'RE EXPERIENCED, just do as they say. Uhm NO. im gonna question what i have questions about. is this wrong? i guess i just dont understand the thread politics around here. just seems like a joke.
 
RollinEndough

RollinEndough

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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNMTUBtynSY&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/YOUTUBE]
 
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