House & Garden Nutes., Under Current Systems, 30,000 Watts, 10 Tons of A/C, Co2

[Socachi]

^^^^ I stand corrected. Thanks RMCG. And I thought I read somewhere it was used in place of water to increase the efficiency of the system. I wonder what I was thinking of :thinking

 

[Ben Derdundat]

hey Ben the room looks silly good bro

I think that lil tip burn is calcium deficiency caused by high levels of PK and rapid growth, it happens a lot of rdwc.

Ive been finding if I dont add cal-mg at the same time I start adding bloom boosters Ill get the burn even at low PPms

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to give it a shot my next go around.:happy

Hey Ben, had a couple of questions about this whole coil setup, if you didn't mind.

1) Do you use pure propylene glycol in your "cooling rez", or is it some mixture of water and PG? Because for a 200 gallon rez @$30/gallon, that's a shitload of PG.

2) I know it's moronic for me to suggest something to you, but you said that you have valves that you open and close to control your "satellite" rez temps - would it not be easier to just hook up one of the controllers below to a pump feeding each "satellite" rez and be able to "set it and forget it"?

http://www.etcsupply.com/

Have been thinking about the cooling coils for a few weeks now, and figured that'd be the easiest way to control the temps in multiple reservoirs..........that said, obviously you're getting along okay with what you're doing :sun

Anyways, keep up the good show my friend :bong2:

EDIT: Another question, if you wouldn't mind:

Is there any kind of general rule of thumb for how much cooler PG would keep a rez than water would? For instance, I have a crawlspace that maxes out (in the dead of summer) at ~68F - figure a 250 gallon reservoir of water would stay at 65F pretty easily - how much cooler would it be with PG?

Or does the PG allow the reservoir to maintain its cool temp for longer periods, and not necessarily allow it to "get cooler" than a comparable rez filled with water?

Sorry for the long-winded questions; they're kinda my trademark :dull

To answer your first question I use a mixture of 25% PG and 75% water in my chiller system. My whole system only holds 42 gallons total. That includes the 15 gallon stainless steel tank, all of the PVC plumbing and the cool coils.

In response to your second question, I do "set it and forget it." The Chiller I have came with a thermostat. In fact it came with the same one you posted a link to. All I have to do is set the thermostat to the desired temperature and the chiller maintains it. When I mentioned being able to control the temperature at each Cool Coil individually by restricting the flow with the ball valves, I should have been a little more clear as to why and how this might be done.... Restricting the flow of water/PG moving through the Cool Coil will cause less heat transfer and allow the nutrient solution temperature to rise while the other Cool Coils remain the same temperature set by the thermostat at the chiller. This comes in handy when running multiple Cool Coils in multiple rooms with plants in multiple stages of growth. For instance, if I have one room in late bloom and the other in early bloom I will want to have my water temperature different for each room. Cooler for late bloom and warmer for early bloom. To be able to accomplish this I set the temperature on the thermostat located on the chiller for the room in late bloom (cooler temp.) and leave the ball valves to the Cool Coils in this room completely open. In the room that is in early bloom (warmer temp.)I slightly close the ball valve on the return line from the Cool Coil. This slows the flow of water/PG moving through the Cool Coil causing less heat transfer and in turn a warmer water temperature than the room that is in late bloom.

Propylene Glycol Does not help in the transfer of heat and will not help you in the application you described unless you put a chiller in play. PG is used in chillers to keep the internal coils from freezing in case of pump failure or low water flow. Also it helps keep the system/ pump lubricated and stop corrosion. bd

Depending on if you run your chiller/plumbing outside in northern climates, I am not sure you ~need~ glycol. And you certainly wouldn't want to run it 100% unless you live in a VERY cold climate. Its essentially antifreeze.

Between 10 - 20% is normal.

Something like 40% is if your outdoor temps are regularly ~20 below and your chiller/lines are outside.

It does reduce the heat transfer efficiency slightly over H20, but does help lube the pump.

Here is the heat transfer coefficient of various %'s of PG.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html

Right on RMCG. Thanks for the help.
You are right about not wanting to use 100% PG and about it not transferring heat as well as water but, your percentages are a little off... Here is what Hydro Innovations recommends for its Chill King Chillers..."We recommend using at least 10% food grade propylene glycol in every water cooled system if your water temperature is set for 75 degrees or above, 25% if the water temperature is set from 50-75 degrees and 50% mixture if using it to maintain water temperatures below 50 degrees." It has nothing to do with whether your plumbing is running outdoors nor the temperature outdoors. bd

Is there any reason not to run 1 big epicenter with a larger reservoir rather then running 2 smaller ones, if the plants are getting the same food and are the same genetics?

Yes, If you want to be able to test new products and have a control group with little or no other variables involved. bd:nerd

Wow you have an amazing set up!!I have a large facility I am in the process of building. I will be growing in a few mediums at first. Coco and soiless is what I do now. I would like to try UC though. I will be posting some pics and my ideas for designs in the dream build section or whatever it is called.. I would really like some feed back from you if you get the time. I will try and build a thread tonight.

Thanks!
Sure thing. Let me know once you have your thread up.:bong2:

hi Ben, nice grow here. I'm trying to do some research on House & Garden Nutrients. Could you read what your label says on them?

For Aqua Flakes, I think there are a few different formulas,
pt A 3.1-0-3.4
pt B 1.5-3.4-6.5

but I think they have been changing their formula, so curious if this is the most up to date one? Their website doesn't list any info like that.

Thanks.
My labels read the same as yours. The numbers listed for the N-P-K values are a minimum guaranteed analysis. Different states/ countries have different tolerances as to the accuracy of these values listed, that is possibly why you might have noticed different values on bottles before. The Formula its self has been pretty consistent as far as I understand. bd

Ben been goin back over your thread and I very impressed with your design and construction skills. Did you do this all yourself? If so wanna build mine ;)?

The ladies are lookin real nice look forward to the end result. Can't wait till I get my UC up. The results I keep seeing are crazy.

The cool air you pull in for the lights does it come from an ac room or outside?

Thanks!
Yeah, I built and designed it myself. I did have some help from some friends at times but 90% of this build was all me. PM me I might be able to help you out... As for you cool air question, the interior of my building stays very cool year round so i am able to pull air pretty much from anywhere inside. bd

It is absolutely mixed with water.

You want to run as little glycol as possible because it reduces the heat transfer properties of the water. The higher the percentage of glycol in the system, the less efficient the system will be.

PG is used to ~prevent~ freezing or allows water to get colder before slushing.

The 'self-contained' Chill King chillers run with a 20G sealed/insulated reservoir. You shouldn't need more than that.

If your chiller/reservoir is set to maintain 58* and your condenser is inside, you should not use it.

If your condenser/plumbing is outside (in the winter) then mix the appropriate % of H20 and glycol to be have a freezing point of 20* less than ambient.


Even 30%/70% PG/H20 by Volume has a freezing point 9.2* F, so if your set up is inside and you keep your chiller at something normal, you don't need it.

I could see someone using it with a DIY Window A/C chiller that isn't on a temp controller and just allowed to 'run wild' (they will freeze up!) or if you were experimenting with cryogenics or laboratory process/laser chilling, but a temp controller would probably be cheaper in the long run.

If you were going to want to run anything, it would be something like 'Water Wetter' which INCREASES the heat transfer properties of water.

Note: This is NOT a FOOD SAFE product (like PG), so you cannot have any leaks to allow it to get in to the nute res's.

Again, some solid information RMCG. Can't say I know about "cryogenics" or "laboratory process/ laser chilling" but, I do know a little about running a chiller. So, like I mentioned earlier, spot on with the heat transfer properties of PG even though it is not as bad as you make it sound... With recirculating chillers, a solution of 30% propylene glycol will result in only about a 3% drop in thermal performance over using water alone but will provide corrosion protection as well as freeze protection down to -15°C (5°F)... Also, still off in regards to why and when to use PG. It is recommended to use PG in all chillers from Hydro Innovations/Chill king (see above response to your first guess). Again outside temperatures and whether your plumbing is outside does not denote whether or not to use PG. It should always be used. Not only to protect the chiller from freezing over but, also to help prevent corrosion and lubricate the pump... Hope this clears things up for everyone.bd;)

 

[UCMENOW]

Ben.....can't wait to see more pics :)

 

[Headach]

Ben,


How often do you crown feed with great white?

 

[CannabisJohn]

Ben if your are still trying to figure out how to do multiple rezs at different temps I have an answer. Use solenoid valves and thermostats that control the valves for each coil. Could use tstat to control power to outlet to start and stop pumps and open and close solenoid valve.

 

[UCMENOW]

Bingo Ringo

Ben if your are still trying to figure out how to do multiple rezs at different temps I have an answer. Use solenoid valves and thermostats that control the valves for each coil. Could use tstat to control power to outlet to start and stop pumps and open and close solenoid valve.

That's exactly how Hydro Innovations new cool coil thermostats work from what I understand.....

Canna John, you work for H.I. bro?

 

[CannabisJohn]

That's exactly how Hydro Innovations new cool coil thermostats work from what I understand.....

Canna John, you work for H.I. bro?

No sir. Am just a HVAC veteran (16 plus years).

 

[Ben Derdundat]

More Toys?!?!

Cool Coil thermostats?:happy Nice! I'm going to have to give Hydro Innovations a call...:phone-2

Restricting the flow to the cool coils with the ball valves works but, it would be nice to have them fully automated...:character0180:

 

[green as grass]

Watch this video it is fucking hilarious!!!:rofl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rqGzkqHneg&feature

that shit is soooo fucking halarious and true

 

[Ben Derdundat]

Update:

Day 39

Day 41

Day 43

Day 45

Day 46

Day 47

Day 48

 

[FreshSteppin]

HOLY SHITTTTTTTT
explosionnnnn

killin bro! fuck ya. can't wait to see your nugs in another 2 weeks

 

[Ben Derdundat]

Right on! Thanks!
These girls are huge... The pics don't do them justice... The lids are buckling hard... I hope they don't get any worse...:sweating

 

[SmokeyOG]

You have the sickest setup I have ever laid eyes on how much is the electric bill a month???damn

 

[dagobaker]

this is what happens when work ur BALLS off
damn props x 10000000
this is how its done.........damn

its like a supermodel in playboy

 

[666elsie]

B D your gonna end up in the bottom of those buckets.
Get some strong dowl and cross em one on each side,bothways ,rest em on outter the rim should be good to go.
and wow I am impressed!GL.

 

[mal]

Awesome

Very impressive sir, your time and effort is to be admired. As well as those f'n beautifully chrystalled plants, very cool



mal

 

[scarface1980]

amazing setup.... 100% perfection.

 

[UCMENOW]

Those must not be the Heavy Harvest 1/4" thick lids.........better hit up CC to get those out for your next run.

They sent out the standard non-Heavy Duty lids on some of the first 13's that went out....its obvious why they made the Heavy Duty ones.

 

[dusty]

SOooooo awesome

 

[HG23]

Hey ben, looks good, nice even canopy. Wow, those lids are really buckling, looks like a definitle place for improvement of the system. In your pics, it looks like the buckets are buckling slightly from the roots/water and the lip that holds the lid along the side is wayyy to small. I was always kinda skeptical of those containers, lids in particular, especially for the money you pay for the CC system. I mean, I'm sure they'll work, but for a coupla thousand bucks, I think they should re-engineer them to better suit the conditions.

Edit: Just saw UCMENOW's post. I figured they were the HH lids already.