Kanzeon's Perpetual Growth and Death Thread

The G13 looks ripened to perfection. Enjoy the rewards.


"Race doesn't exist in humans?"

I am still confused but I'll leave it at that.

Races don't inherently exist, ethnicities do. Race is just an inaccurate shorthand for a group of ethnicities with similar skin color.

People with a lot of melanin could be from Jamaica, Holland, Australia, Sub-Saharan Africa, Haiti, or Cleveland, you know? But they're all "black" when viewed through the artificial lens of race, despite the huge differences in cultures.

Likewise with Latinos- a person from Spain barely speaks the same kind of Spanish as someone from the Dominican Republic, and both have enormous differences in culture from a Peruvian person, but racially they're "latino."

There's a whole complicated racial history in Asia, but when people say "asian," they're referring to a general set of physical descriptors that describes Japanese, Chinese, Thai, Filipino, Korean, Taiwanese, etc people. Despite the fact that a lot of Asia is Russia, and a lot of Russians don't look super similar to Japanese people, Japanese people are "asian" and Russians aren't.

Just like "white people" don't really exist. Irish, French, Scottish, Canadian, etc. ones do. Viewing things through the lens of ethnicity allows for more subtlety and cultural nuance when discussing them than viewing them through the lens of race.

As pertains to the plants, I just don't see why anyone would have a particular interest in a landrace that they were not immediately hoping to turn into an heirloom....or the fact that it is naturally adapted to a climate they are immediately pulling it from. Unless they had just arrived on the land and were looking for something that grew well on that land. In which case, yeah....great! But that is just about nobody on these boards.....

What is relevant to almost all buyers is that the genetics are uncrossed with other genetics.

As such, I just don't find it a useful distinction. And it causes controversey sometimes. So I just stopped using it.

Kanzeon said:

I think you answered your first question with your second one. It's not a botanical term, so why use it? How does it differ from heirloom? Or "regional heirloom?" What makes it better?

View attachment 1097189

There they are, chopped, rinsed, and hung. Rinsed in what you ask?

View attachment 1097188

Because fuck chlorine, that's why.

My hands fucking reek of G13 Hashplant. Mildewed old sock, tennis ball, armpit, and a tiny hint of pine.

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Don't touch your face or eyes, I always make that rookie mistake while working on plants, damn it burns.

Set up a nice, warm spot for the reg seedlings to start life under 12/12.



Very excited to have new males getting added to the mix. Blue Power Mango, Framboise (the Raspberry Picker x MAC/Cherry Wine cross), and Blueberry Amnesia.

I also wanted to start a discussion about selecting males, and the methods that I've started to use so far.

First, apparently the density of hairs on cotes correlates to the density of trichomes on the end product, so those seedlings with high density get marked with a plus.

Second, stem rubs throughout veg. The most aromatic individuals get marked with a plus.

Third, structure. Stuff like internode distance, branch strength, general vigor, or branch lignification speed in some phenos, Those plants get marked with a plus.

Fourth, resilience. Any breeding males get heat stressed, cold stressed, drought stressed, overwatered, topped, supercropped, rootbound, and more. The ones that survive all of this get marked with a plus.

Fifth, trichome production. Obviously any males that produce trichomes will increase the potency of their progeny. Males with trichomes get marked with two pluses.

Keep track of the pluses for each plant from seedling separation to mid-flowering, collect the pollen of the highest scoring plants.

Happy to take input or suggestions from the great minds here.

Now listening.

Kanzeon said:

I also wanted to start a discussion about selecting males, and the methods that I've started to use so far.

First, apparently the density of hairs on cotes correlates to the density of trichomes on the end product, so those seedlings with high density get marked with a plus.

Second, stem rubs throughout veg. The most aromatic individuals get marked with a plus.

Third, structure. Stuff like internode distance, branch strength, general vigor, or branch lignification speed in some phenos, Those plants get marked with a plus.

Fourth, resilience. Any breeding males get heat stressed, cold stressed, drought stressed, overwatered, topped, supercropped, rootbound, and more. The ones that survive all of this get marked with a plus.

Fifth, trichome production. Obviously any males that produce trichomes will increase the potency of their progeny. Males with trichomes get marked with two pluses.

Keep track of the pluses for each plant from seedling separation to mid-flowering, collect the pollen of the highest scoring plants.

Happy to take input or suggestions from the great minds here.

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This is more or less what i did....except i don't mark with points really.

Hollow stem was the other thing i was looking for....

More than anything though, i find one can really feel the presence of the males especially.

Yeah, the points are a relatively new development. I'll probably draw up a rating matrix for more consistency going forward. Something like a 100 point total scale with different characteristics being weighted differently.

Another thing that I just remembered is smoking/vaping the fan leaves of males to test for potency. I really like that idea combined with stem rubs to test for a male's ability to contribute potency and terps.

Kanzeon said:

I also wanted to start a discussion about selecting males, and the methods that I've started to use so far.

First, apparently the density of hairs on cotes correlates to the density of trichomes on the end product, so those seedlings with high density get marked with a plus.

Second, stem rubs throughout veg. The most aromatic individuals get marked with a plus.

Third, structure. Stuff like internode distance, branch strength, general vigor, or branch lignification speed in some phenos, Those plants get marked with a plus.

Fourth, resilience. Any breeding males get heat stressed, cold stressed, drought stressed, overwatered, topped, supercropped, rootbound, and more. The ones that survive all of this get marked with a plus.

Fifth, trichome production. Obviously any males that produce trichomes will increase the potency of their progeny. Males with trichomes get marked with two pluses.

Keep track of the pluses for each plant from seedling separation to mid-flowering, collect the pollen of the highest scoring plants.

Happy to take input or suggestions from the great minds here.

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A bit reluctant to answer because of the great minds comment, but its so interesting...

I never even thought about the first method.

And about the second i would like to ask you the science behind it.

If smell comes from terpenes,
and terpenes are in the trichomes on flowers and leaves from the flowering plants, how can a stem rub from a male plant in veg give an indication ?

Does a male plant in veg have trichomes on the stem ?

I know many people use this method, i have just never been convinced it works for me.

To me 3 and 4 are the most important.
And obviously, 5, any male with visible resin production could be a special one.

I don't think that smell comes solely from trichomes, I've had some immensely stinky plants in veg. But I do think that there's a correlation between the stinkiness of a stem rub and the pungency of the buds. Between that and the fan leaf smoking/vaping, there's a lot of information.

Poekie said:

A bit reluctant to answer because of the great minds comment, but its so interesting...

I never even thought about the first method.

And about the second i would like to ask you the science behind it.

If smell comes from terpenes,
and terpenes are in the trichomes on flowers and leaves from the flowering plants, how can a stem rub from a male plant in veg give an indication ?

Does a male plant in veg have trichomes on the stem ?

I know many people use this method, i have just never been convinced it works for me.

To me 3 and 4 are the most important.
And obviously, 5, any male with visible resin production could be a special one.

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Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think terps are exclusively found in trichomes?

Kanzeon said:

I don't think that smell comes solely from trichomes, I've had some immensely stinky plants in veg. But I do think that there's a correlation between the stinkiness of a stem rub and the pungency of the buds. Between that and the fan leaf smoking/vaping, there's a lot of information.

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I have seen some obvious exceptions to this rule, had a strain pre-98 (before it was pre-98)Bubba/Purple Skunk that literally had no smell on stem rub throughout and gave zero smell throughout Veg, those ladies could be smelled 3 blocks away in flower! It was ridiculous my house was unbearable to some. Was my first inclination to buy a charcoal filter way back! Wish I would have been keeping moms back then because that line was ridiculously potent, stinky and one of the first really purple phenos I ever witnessed.

TopShelfTrees said:

I have seen some obvious exceptions to this rule, had a strain pre-98 (before it was pre-98)Bubba/Purple Skunk that literally had no smell on stem rub throughout and gave zero smell throughout Veg, those ladies could be smelled 3 blocks away in flower! It was ridiculous my house was unbearable to some. Was my first inclination to buy a charcoal filter way back! Wish I would have been keeping moms back then because that line was ridiculously potent, stinky and one of the first really purple phenos I ever witnessed.

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That's interesting. I wonder if some terps express earlier than others or if it's more that the plants genetically express terps at different times.

Milson said:

That's interesting. I wonder if some terps express earlier than others or if it's more that the plants genetically express terps at different times.

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Actually wondering the same thing, I will say it was a one off (at least for me) but I have witnessed it before.

TopShelfTrees said:

Actually wondering the same thing, I will say it was a one off (at least for me) but I have witnessed it before.

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Should have stated “an obvious exception to the rule” as opposed to “some” “exceptions” my bad

Seb said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think terps are exclusively found in trichomes?

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Cannabis resin contains hundreds of different terpene and cannabinoid metabolites. Many of these metabolites have not been conclusively identified. Our understanding of the genomic and biosynthetic systems of these metabolites in cannabis, and the factors that affect their variability, is rudimentary.

Seb said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think terps are exclusively found in trichomes?

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I thought terpenes and cannabinoids are only found inside the resin glands, but i am open to any new information.

Kanzeon said:

I don't think that smell comes solely from trichomes, I've had some immensely stinky plants in veg. But I do think that there's a correlation between the stinkiness of a stem rub and the pungency of the buds. Between that and the fan leaf smoking/vaping, there's a lot of information.

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I understand, but to me they just smell like stem...
Maybe i've inhaled too many terpenes and terpenoids already.
I've never smoked a fan leaf, but i'm gonna give It a try some day !

Yeah, stem rubs are certainly more subtle than buds. I think the principle is stinky stem rub resin = stinky trichome resin.

TBH my favorite thing to do with fan leaves is to rinse them and make smoothies with them, water, ice, and sugar. Of course that's only an option if there haven't been bug issues and if toxic stuff hasn't been sprayed on the leaves. They technically shouldn't get you high because none of the THC is decarbed, but they absolutely do.

...although now that I'm thinking about it, taste/smell/potency of fan leaves would be another way to check out a plant's personality. Gonna incorporate that and hope that the fan leaves on the upcoming Afghani males don't taste like sun-roasted assholes and armpits.