4 600s or 3 1000s

  • Thread starter Bobby Smith
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J

jakew215

oh i have done a shit ton of reading on MPB's. and im glad your taking this constructively, im just stokin the fire, my own fire so to speak.
 
B

Bobby Smith

oh i have done a shit ton of reading on MPB's. and im glad your taking this constructively, im just stokin the fire, my own fire so to speak.
Trust me, I was like you (I'm assuming you're already thinking of renovating and thinking of different plans) a year ago, and I did more research than is humanly possible - came to the conclusion that by far the most "bang for your buck" is from vertically hung lights.

RMCG, without getting into too lengthy of a discussion, I think trees are pretty similar in concept to VSOGS - a vertically hung bulb illuminating 360 degrees - just the trees are bigger, is all; of course there's small nuances between them, but four trees around a 1K is pretty damn similar to 100 clones around a 1K (IMO).

EDIT: BTW Jake, I've said in a couple of other threads - if I was a large-ish medical grower (10K+) and depended on that income to support me and/or my family, I'd do 20-30 gallon soil/coco drain to waste all day - the risk of shit going wrong in RDWC (for me, anyways) would be too great to be able to depend on harvest after harvest.

You see outstanding growers on here (Jack, Lost, Dizzle) fuck up and lose plants (if not entire harvests), and to me that's just a little too scary to jump headfirst into.
 
B

Bobby Smith

All right, got a couple things brewing right now:

1) Replacement glass got delivered yesterday, so I glued that in and it's basically dry right now - glue job looks like it was done by a first grader, but it'll get the job done.

2) Bought some tubing to move my water access to the other side of the reservoir, and as getting into that corner where the hose bib is is almost impossible now and will be fully impossible when the sytem's up and running - only problem is I can't find my second set of fucking pliers which is REALLY starting to piss me off right now.

3) Have had water running through the chiller for a week now just to make sure there's no leaks, so just turned on the chiller a bit ago to see how it holds up - water temp was 72F, set it for 68F so we'll see how it does - once it (hopefully) gets down to 68F, gonna see how low it can go just for shits and giggles.
 
B

Bobby Smith

1 - chiller did fine, got the reservoir down to 65F before I reset it to 67F (65F was plenty low enough for me to make sure it worked, but we'll see what it does at 84F temps - I'm confident in it, though)

2 - "mounted" the Vertitube after reinstalling glass into the section where the glass had broken

3 - let's play "guess which clones are old and which are new" - yeah, the old ones look like shit, but they've almost all got at least root nubs, so I'm hoping they'll start growing soon - gonna install my chiller into the cloner soon, and gonna try to get that thing under fluoros sooner rather than later - those baby clones can't handle a 400 all up in their business (obviously)

4 -still couldn't find my pliers, but it's a good thing because I think I'm gonna take back this tubing I bought and get CPVC instead - worried about the weight of this 3' piece of steel tubing on the existing hose bib

5 - gonna install the intake and exhaust fans for the Vertitube tomorrow, and also try to get the wiring done - might need to use one of the 15' cord sets I bought because I'm not sure the included cords will reach to the bottom light (but I think the other three will be fine)

6 - built a flower bed where the drain line runs out to from my garage for stealth, but there was still a "gurgling" sound from running water, so I glued 3/4" tubing to it and ran it to under the soil - haven't tried it yet (glue is still drying), but I'm thinking it should be pretty silent

That's about it, any questions/comments/jokes feel free.
 
Shady

Shady

Chillin' in the Shade...
Supporter
Looking good Bobby... It's gonna be great to see those clones in the Pentadecagon! Just curious how you access the center once all the plants are inserted? Is there some sort of hinge that opens up one side of the system or is there an open gap to walk through? :wondering
 
B

Bobby Smith

Thanks for stopping by, bro - since it's a pentadecagon and not a hexadecagon, there's an open side (but it's not that large, and I'm kind of a large man).

Here's a shot from the center looking head-on at the opening (which is also where the rez is, obviously).
 
Shady

Shady

Chillin' in the Shade...
Supporter
Hmmm... It def looks like a tight fit and will be even tighter once the canopy fills the gap... :thinking
 
B

Bobby Smith

Boom, thanks for checking in, homeboy - hope all's well with you :)

Shady, you're right about that little space, but hopefully it'll motivate me to get my fat ass on the treadmill.
 
I

Indefinately

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Hey Bobby,

Im just checking in to see how you are doing......
Hope your project is moving along faster than mine.

Give us an update on what you have been up to......

Indefinately.......
 
B

Bobby Smith

Hey Bobby,

Im just checking in to see how you are doing......
Hope your project is moving along faster than mine.

Give us an update on what you have been up to......

Indefinately.......
Thanks for checking in, bro - I'm still around, been traveling a lot (I must lead the league in traveling for an unemployed guy) and doing holiday type shit.

Still dealing with some EZ Clone issues (temp fluctuations, totally my fault), but I THINK I've gotten them figured out by this point (they won't be totally figured out until everything is setup and my temp is fully regulated, which is/was really the "issue"), so (fingers crossed) shooting to have plants in there (the PD) by the 15th.

Set up and wired the vertitube a couple of days ago and took readings - the results I posted in another thread but I'll repost at the bottom of this post if anyone's interested.

Also getting some float valves delivered today, because I've decided to change the water delivery (really, the return and not the delivery) system in the PD - getting rid of the return pump and catch basin (too much opportunity for algae to grow, too much electricity usage, too much chance for flooding from debris clogging the pump, etc.)

So:

1) I'm going to put rubber endcaps on the ends of the structure where they drain into the "catch basin".
2) Going to insert 3/4" E&F fittings (or two 1/2" barbs/grommets on each endcap, not sure yet - that would be a total of four return lines) into each endcap (drilled, obviously) and make sure they're waterproof
3) Going to run 3/4" tubing to a 27 gallon strong box (aka "MPB") which will be filled up to about 8" with solution (guessing about 15 gallon's worth) - this will be my "main" reservoir, housing the cool coil, having the chiller and pump running to it, the 1/6HP will be pumping out of here, etc.
4) Going to install a float valve into that MPB which will automatically top it off from the current 64 gallon reservoir (Brute Trashcan) I have.

I like this new setup for all the reasons mentioned above (simpler, less algae, less electric) as well as the fact that this system is kind of a hybrid between a large recirculating reservoir (which would need to be fully changed every two weeks, wasting 64 gallons of water) and a drain to waste, where pH/PPM fluctuation and waste are minimized.

With this new setup, I may use my R/O filter (wasn't planning on it) and auto-top off my top-off reservoir, so I can take two week vacations and not have to worry about my plants drying out.

Anyhow, here's the post from another thread about the readings I took with my light meter:

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f8/dual-arc-hps-positioning-26518/

Took readings from 18" from the BULB (16" from the cooltube) from all four directions off of each bulb (at 90 degree angles, but directly perpendicular to the middle of the bulb), with four bulbs, for 16 total measurements.

^^^If this explanation is confusing, lemme know.

The bulbs (working from top to bottom) are dual arc, super hps, dual arc, and super hps (all used for <1 hour total).

The dual arcs put out 61K lumens and the HPS 90K, tested and verified bare bulbed with my light meter a week or two ago.

Location One (from top to bottom):
2340
3930
4050
3920

Location Two (same top to bottom):
2520
3770
3930
3840

Location Three:
2560
4210
3370
3850

Location Four:
2480
3650
3560
3810

Average:
Top Bulb (DA) - 2475
Second Bulb (HPS) - 3890
Third Bulb (DA) - 3727.5
Bottom Bulb (HPS) - 3855

Conclusion - without a doubt, swapping out the top dual arc for an HPS (and possibly the other dual arc as well, still undecided on that) - I just can't justify that amount of light loss for the top-most plants, regardless of how much better the spectrum may be - I'm not sure my canopy will even get to 18" from the bulbs (it prolly will, but it could stay in the low 20s easily as well), and 2500 foot candles ain't cutting it for me - I'll take 3500 foot candles and a shitty spectrum all day in that situation.

P.S. - don't forget to wear your welding goggles when dealing with vertical bulbs, people.

EDIT: I guess I could swap the top two bulbs and have the dual arcs in the middle and the HPS on the outsides - methinks that would give me the most even canopy lighting (as even bulbs will certainly favor the middle) as well as giving me a better chance to see the true "effect" of the dual arc spectrum on the plants in the middle vs. the plants on the perimeter when both sets are receiving a comparable number of footcandles..........thoughts?
 
B

Bobby Smith

BTW, have also been exploring easy ways of converting the water flow from the tops of the columns to more of an aero mist than the NFT-type flow they are right now - definitely not going to hard plumb the whole thing with PVC to run "true" aero, but if anyone has any ideas for that I'm all ears.

Not too worried about it as the top roots should diffuse the water anyways, but I figured I had some down time and could fuck around with it if anyone had any ideas that were relatively painless.

EDIT: would also love anyone's input on my smaller reservoir idea - I realize that pH/PPM fluctuation COULD become an issue with it if not handled, but with using tap water I know how much pH reacts - it steadily creeps up, so I would just set the top-off water around 5 and that should keep my pH in the 5.5 - 6.0 range.

PPMs will obviously be another story and that's just gonna have to be some trial and error, but I don't think it'll be that big of a deal.
 
R

RMCG

With enough pressure on the feed pump, you could use rainbird type sprinklers instead of that dripper on the top. Not exactly a 'mist' but it would at least spread out some water flow, esp when the tubes get full of roots.
 
R

RMCG

BTW, interesting work on the Dual Arc readings...

While lumen output isn't 'everything', it sure is something.
 
B

Bobby Smith

BTW, interesting work on the Dual Arc readings...

While lumen output isn't 'everything', it sure is something.
Yeah, for sure - gonna take some more measurements of the current configuration at 24" inches, then switch the top two bulbs (so two DAs in the middle and HPS at top and bottom) and take measurements at 18" and 24", and then put in all HPS and take measurements.

Agreed that lumens aren't everything, but I do feel like you need a certain minimimum amount before you go differentiating between wavelengths - I'm thinking (all depending on the "test" results) that 4 HPS are probably gonna be what's in there for the first run, but we'll see.

Yeah, I'd forgotten about those "real" sprinklers........will have to do some research, but the pump (1/6HP) certainly isn't gonna stop me from doing anything - it's a 5 amp beast of a pump.

My limitation is gonna be the weakness of the plastic fittings and tubing not being able to handle higher PSIs, methinks.
 
B

Bobby Smith

HAHA That pump will DEFINITELY put out for you. Might shear roots!
Lol, it's no joke.......but at least now you know why I couldn't have TWO of them running all the time (as it was setup previously) - that would be fucking murderous on ye olde electric bill.

Any thoughts on the smaller reservoir (15ish gallons) and top-off idea? Any big problems you see that I might be missing?

If anything was unclear in my description lemme know and I'll fix it.........I love that no water would ever get a whiff of light with the new setup, that's huge to me.
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
Whats happening bobby, Clones did not make it?

Was hoping I would see the system being blown up with plants by now....
 
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