4 600s or 3 1000s

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Bobby Smith

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Whats happening bobby, Clones did not make it?

Was hoping I would see the system being blown up with plants by now....

Yeah, decided I didn't want to have to worry about a new and untested system burning down/flooding my house while in Europe for two weeks, so just killed the clones that were in there and jetted off to Paris.

Left my mothers in dirt in a puddle of water about 6' from a weak fluoro bulb, so when I got home they were struggling to say the least (in addition to a severe case of spider mite-itis).

Been nursing them back to health for the past month and trying to work out some EZ Cloner issues (all my fault and temp related), but I think we're back on track now.

Cost myself over two months with my laziness of everything not being setup fully before I left (which sucks), but this is a hobby and not how I pay my bills, so I'll live with it.

Shit happens.

EDIT: float valves just got delivered
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
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So true, only time. I wish I was on vacation.

Get some clear res from ezclone. clones will still root even with high temps.

Hope them mites die fast for you. Can't be lazy now got kill them fuckers.
 
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Bobby Smith

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Yeah, as soon as all the plants are healthy enough to take it I'm gonna drop a bomb on their asses in there.

Also can't sleep and am awake at 2:19am because I'm been tossing and turning in bed because I'm now back to my idea of watercooling the entire garden using cool air from my crawl space.

Really want a totally sealed room, and that's the only way I can think of to do that - will supplement with a 1HP chiller during the summer, but the other nine months that's just free cooling that I'd be wasting.

Jesus Christ.
 
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Bobby Smith

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So, I think I have everything I need to setup my new reservoir "system" - wish me luck, I'll take pics as I go and report back.

Also, just sent this email to Hydro Innovations (lengthy):

Dear sir or madame:

I've corresponded with you guys before and you're great - I currently have a Hydrogen CO2 Gen and a Cool Coil in my grow room, but I'm now trying to add some more of your gear so have a couple more questions.

Real quick, my setup:

14x10 sealed room, super insulated (R19 at least, R30 in some areas) but inside a non-insulated garage (so gets to 20F in winter and 100F in summer in the garage area)
Veg tent has 700 watts (non air-cooled)
Flowering area has 2400 watts - cooltubed on a closed circuit, so heat from the bulbs is GREATLY reduced
All ballasts are digital
96 pint dehumidifier
1/8 and 1/15 chillers (but they would be gone if this idea moves forward)
Watercooled CO2 generator (run off of tap water, drain to waste)

I think that's about it for the basics of my heat producing equipment.

This room is currently cooled by a 14K dual hose portable AC (which would become the 96 pint dehuey if this idea moves forward), but that is unable to keep the room completely sealed (portables suck), so I want to go fully watercooled for that reason and for the increased efficiency (i.e. lower electric bill).

I have a crawlspace under my house which stays <=65F in the dead of summer and around 50F for the other nine months of the year.

I was planning on putting a 150-200 gallon reservoir in there (the crawlspace), and from that running a feed and return line into an ice chest (insulated "beer cooler") located in my grow room - that would basically be my "epicenter" - somewhere in the 30 gallon size range - I understand that you guys recommend a 50 gallon reservoir with a proper sized chiller, but I'm trying to use as much of the cool ambient air as possible to cool (without using a chiller), so I need to go bigger on the reservoir.

This ice chest would feed one or two 8" Ice Boxes (purely for AC needs, not for attaching inline with the aircooled lights) and one or two cool coils (reservoirs of 25 gallons and 40 galllons, respectively).

There will (eventually) be a 1HP chiller hooked up to the reservoir for the summertime, but with the ambient temps down there that (IMO) won't be necessary until May at the earliest.

Anyways, my questions are as follows:

1) How many 8" Ice Boxes do I need for this application? Can I get away with one or do I need two?
2) What size pumps do the Ice Boxes need to operate? I've read the "head at 8' for 500GPH" stuff, but that's over my head - could you simply provide a link to a pump that would power this properly for me? I'm not the brightest bulb in the box.
3) What water temp would I need to maintain in my epicenter to perform these functions? I'm guessing around 60F (as your website recommends a 20F difference for supplemental AC).
4) At what temp is the effectiveness of the chiller seriously compromised? Whereas the crawl space is 65F in the dead of summer, I realize that the chiller will certainly heat it up to some extent (but I'd be shocked if it ever got over 85F) - and no, the chiller can not be located outside, it must be in the crawlspace for security reasons.
5) Is 30 gallons a reasonable size for my epicenter (located inside the grow room), or would I want to go bigger?

Also, every piece of equipment is going to be run off of its own pump and controller, so I'm not planning on setting up a manifold - my 1/6HP pumps suck 600 watts, so to leave that running fulltime to pressurize the piping would defeat the purpose of going watercooled to me.

Again, really appreciate everything you guys do and I'm sorry for how long this was - just wanted to get all the details in there.

Thanks,
Bob
 
B

Bobby Smith

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Wow; after spending an afternoon with it, I feel like my life wasn't complete before I found the step drill bit - sickest thing ever, I've been drilling everything I can find with it (I'm seriously about to drill the dog).

Had some plumbing issues that I had to take care of for the better part of the afternoon, but I'm now back to being rocking and rolling with this shit.

Really quickly, I think I'm gonna hook up my R/O filter and use it - now that I'm turning into a plumbing master, I guess I might as well - not digging the hard water stains on the shit inside my large reservoir (even though tap isn't that bad, 7.5/125).

Anyhow, went pretty well - reservoir filled up to about 12-15 gallons and there were zero leaks on one side (the right side) and a slight leak on the left side - the tubing is so strong that it's pulling the seal apart, so I'm gonna stick a barb or elbow in between to lessen the pressure on the bulkheads - BTW, that's a nice segue to how awesome these electrical bulkheads are - they're the fucking shit.

Also, put in the check valve upside down.........lol, I'm a tard.

That new sprinkler I tried out didn't work for shit, but I wouldn't have used them anyways because when I took out the other one I could see how much "gunk" was already in there - gonna go with them for "clog-free" reasons and deal with the poor dispersion.............hmmmm, I wonder if the sprinkler didn't work that well because the water just searched for a lower pressure release? Might need to set up all 15 sites with them to really give an accurate test...........they're only $2 a piece, so even if they don't work I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Anyone know where to get one of those prefilters for pumps? They look like large bags to put around them of fine mesh netting or something like that? I think they have those somewhere, but I could be wrong.

All in all, not displeased with it so far.

P.S. - still pursuing that watercooling idea and I WILL make it a reality (if it's feasible) - hopefully by now you guys know that I mean what I say, so please start trying to point out holes in my ideas if you wouldn't mind :)
 
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snickerss

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Anyone know where to get one of those prefilters for pumps? They look like large bags to put around them of fine mesh netting or something like that? I think they have those somewhere, but I could be wrong


http://www.amazon.com/EcoPlus-Pump-Filter-Bag-Large/dp/B000W4S42U


EcoPlus Pump Filter Bag - Large - 10 in. x 12 1/2 in.
by SUNLIGHT SUPPLY
Be the first to review this item
Price: .50
Sale: .39
You Save: .11 (10%)
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In Stock.
Ships from and sold by BetterGrow Hydro.
Ordering for Christmas? Based on the shipping schedule of BetterGrow Hydro, choose Standard at checkout for delivery by December 24. See BetterGrow Hydro shipping deta
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
Pump filter bags can be purchased at hydro store. (or online) ecoplus and sunleaves are a few brands that make em. you put the entire pump in the filter bag.

I am all about walking before I run.

water cooling can cost some bucks to do right. Looks cool and high tech. Spoke with hydro innovations, watercooled gardens guys before at the dro expo. Checkout there booth and setup in actions for the quotes and brochure.

here is some info from a brochure to bust out some facts and costs (in case you have not seen em)
.
2-3k complete setup retails @ 3407.39,
$2892.78@watercooledgardens dot com.


1hp chiller
1 ice box thermostat fan controller
75' rubber rubbing blue 1/2"
1 flotec 3/10 hp submersible pump
2 ice boxes 6" upgrade to 8" for 100.00

claimed to cool the lights only. so then you would need to run ac or buy more water cooling equipment to keep the room cool.

then you could be possibly where you are now and then having to invest more time and $$.

why not get a mini split?

cold water with heat can cause condensation. search and look around at grow thread and diaries. how many got water cooled lights? how many do not?

ok not alot but do see c02 generators, res chillers, etc. yes do need a chiller for the res temps. so why not go overkill and then handle everything right?

I thought same thing until I did the math of costs and looked at what is already proven and works and have no chance of leaking water.

lights, mainly air cooled or open bulb.

Look at the big guns threads (jackmayoffer ben, others as well not only here but other forums). they got big bucks to choose whatever they want. notice a common theme? no watercooled hoods.

yes a few people are water cooled hoods.

but break out the calculator and do some statistics and the percentages of persons using them are small. other factor is the disclosing of failures are they disclosed or not.

SO I went and asked around in person.

Every single local dro store to me does not recommend hydro innovations products. more than one refuses to sell there products. hey to be fair maybe there are a few isolated incidents. They will order dro innovations products for you but do not recommend there entire setup. And you have to deal with hydro innovations if anything goes wrong.

Rather give you advice from my own experience of using there products but I am not willing to take the risk currently. If I did I would not but there products I would outsource the parts from the proper non-hydro industries and then put it together.

digitalhippy @ icmag look like he loves his setup. Celticebe on here is as well. so it works. I like the idea of not having any in or out or all that ductwork.

then back to kiss. things are no longer as simple as using a mini split ac.

so what is the goal? cool your room without an ac?

ok long term watercooling may be cheaper. but then requires more building water lines and things that can cause more issues. Less is more sometimes.

wanted to share all the pros and cons I came up with in my research.

not trying to put down hydro innovations just unbiased fact about the available options. if you do not hear from them maybe call them or watercooledgardens 800 #

hydrothermal is high tech but but you can deliver the dank without it.
Hope you get things works out and rolling.
 
B

Bobby Smith

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Leadsled, thanks much - as soon as I had a name to Google, was able to find them online (just placed an order for three) - was gonna wait to get them from the hydro store but I have no problem ordering from aquarium places :).

As far as the whole watercooling thing, I'm pretty damn set on doing it - a mini-split isn't an option because I can't have an HVAC guy anywhere near my grow, as well as being outside and on (possibly) in the middle of the winter - I could try to put the condensor in the crawlspace, but that's got tons of problems of its own.

Honestly, the first few pages of this thread are me going back and forth debating between an AC or watercooling (I obviously chose AC), but now I'm back to watercooling - it's totally feasible and I don't think it will be very hard at all - the hardest part right now is finding a store that sells Ice Boxes in my area.

Total cost will be this:

1HP chiller (used off of Craigslist) - $5-600, and that won't be purchased until spring
200 gallons worth of reservoir (prolly 8-10 MPBs plumbed together) - $100
30-50 gallon ice chest/beer cooler (epicenter in grow room) - $100
50' cool coil (for veg reservoir) - $50
2/3 8" Ice Boxes - $540 if three, $360 if two - still researching something comparable to this I could use - maybe bend my own copper and make a MASSIVE ice box?
3 Ranco controllers - $150 ($50 each)
Small pumps, misc. - $100

So right now it'd be like $850 for what I needed now, and then I just remember to check Craigslist every week until summer to find a good deal on a 1HP chiller.

Not too bad, IMO - FWIW, this thread is starting to pick up steam and I lay my plans out a little more clearly in it:



Anyways, nothing watercooling starts until some other stuff gets done in there that's a little more pressing - I can live with an AC for the next month or two if I need to.

EDIT: also spent $100 at two different Lowes getting new fittings/tubing for a new water delivery system - going to upgrade to a 1.25" feed tube which then "Ts" off into two separate 3/4" feed tubes to feed the 2.25GPM sprinklers (.5" feed into each sprinkler) I've purchased.

The previous setup was .5" tubing into a .5" tee and two .5" tubing sections with "water diffusers" (not sprinklers), so I think the new setup should give me a lot more flow/pressure (but I'm assuming, I admittedly don't understand water pressure very well).
 
4

4.D.

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sweet thread ricky bobby smith
just read the whole thing, thanks for sharing.
Have you ever seen HEATH ROBINSONS VERTICAL SOG?Googleit Heath is the man, a growsystem inventor, always putting his new ideas into play. He more or less discovered/invented (at least paved the way for) the MPB and Under Current. I think he got 2.14 gpw in his verti sog grow. I really want to do something like this but Im a medstate fellow myself. Check out his grows, Heath is a horticultural artist.

I want to reiterate that lumens and par are two different ballgames, Very interested to see how your yields vary from bulb to bulb if you do end up running a dual arc.
 
4

4.D.

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Here is a video from you tube I found.


I guess it was called heaths flooded tube
 
R

RMCG

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I know its a bit out of your chiller price range, but there's a dude on ebay that reconfigures new window A/C's into chillers. 1HP for ~900. 120 or 240.
 
R

RMCG

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Also, go hit youtube for every Hydro Innovations video out there. Make sure you know what you are getting in to.
 
B

Bobby Smith

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4.D. - thanks for stopping by; yeah, have read that thread over many times - was the main inspiration for the PVCagon.

RMCG - have watched all those videos several times - I'm weird, some shit I buy on impulse and some shit I research endlessly; watercooling is definitely the latter of the two.

Have a new gameplan, but I need to give it some more thought before it's ready to "publish" - pretty sure it's gonna work, but I need to think over some eventualities in my head to make sure.

RMCG, thanks again for all your help - really, really appreciate it.

EDIT: RMCG, is this the chiller you're talking about?
 
leadsled

leadsled

GrowRU
2,145
263
Hope the watercooling works out. Mini split was easy to install. I installed a few. I would guinea pig watercooling c02, if I had the $$ for the chiller. Maybe someday.

also guy in la that sells chillers that retail for 1800 for 700,
Hey just saw the link you posted, Same guy I was thinking of. he also AdvertiseS on criags. Look like a good deal.
 
R

RMCG

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This is the one I was talking about:




Ping that guy from your link and ask what the BTU rating of that chiller is.
 
J

jakew215

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Hope the watercooling works out. Mini split was easy to install. I installed a few. I would guinea pig watercooling c02, if I had the $$ for the chiller. Maybe someday.

also guy in la that sells chillers that retail for 1800 for 700,
Hey just saw the link you posted, Same guy I was thinking of. he also AdvertiseS on criags. Look like a good deal.

i use the hydro innovations water cooled co2 setups w/ out a water chiller. just recirculates the hot water. 50 gallons give or take. works great, blastin at 1600 ppm for months now.

and bobby. whoa man. shits is crazy. i hope to see a finish to this room someday!
 
Dunge

Dunge

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re. co2:
I was compelled by air quality issues (stink) to tent off my basement grow corner. So I put a ferment bucket in there to provide co2, but I have no idea how to monitor concentration. My local nursery has glass tubes at $5 each that proport to be the answer. That's $5 for a single data point. How do my fellow farmers know their co2 concentrations?
 
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Bobby Smith

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Jake, I figure in a year or two I should be fully setup :) - leaving for Florida early Wednesday morning so I'm trying to get as much done as possible in the interim.

Dunge, I'd be willing to wager that 95%+ of the people on this forum use a digital CO2 monitor to control usage - those that don't at least have a regulator, and that and some simple math (although using some assumptions, which are never good) can tell your your CO2 enrichment.

IMO, buying one of those tubs for $130 (or whatever they cost now) is just a waste of money - you have no idea how much CO2 is being released and you have no way to control it - save up and do it right (again, just my opinion).

Totally changed the water delivery system, will post pics tomorrow.
 
RollinEndough

RollinEndough

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Update bump.

Time to start makin' the money instead of spending it homie. :)
 
Shady

Shady

Chillin' in the Shade...
Supporter
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Update bump.

Time to start makin' the money instead of spending it homie. :)
No doubt... I don't know if I can wait 1 or 2 yrs to see this setup in action... Are your clones doing well Bobby? How about some bud shots from your previous grows for us picture whores while you're perfecting the Pentadecagon? :wondering
 
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