Arguing vs Debating vs Discussing

[2Water]

Ok ya'll, I need some outside opinions (since most of ya have read what happened.

Maybe it's because I wrote it, but where did I bicker, argue, bring negativity, or not ask pertinent questions?

If I ask questions or make a suggestion on a thread that is looking for growers to make an educational series, I thought the thread was to discuss what is considered basic for ALL styles of growing not just one.

I never tried to belittle to be rude, and when I tried to disengage, I was still being talked for or talked down to while the other side of the discussion started to try to show his authority on the subject. Now all I see, "nice now the arguing and bickering is gone, we can get on track." I never argued anything except that the idea of too much information is a red flag for me.

Everyone jumped on VPD and negated anything else I said, wow, I'm not trying to play victim but wtf. Yeah, I trolled just as much as I was being called out or having words put in my mouth, so that makes me the bad guy?

Maybe it's just me and my perspective but anyone who tries to name drop without direct contact to an individual tells me all I need to know about thier character and true colors.

 

[2Water]

This is a great idea!

Maybe have a go to list of experienced growers listed and sorted by types of growing. Then when a new has problems we all know who to tag

Don't totally agree with you on humidity not being important during veg, but I do think people put more undue emphasis on it over learning the what and how of what they're doing.

I feel like some veteran growers exacerbate this by jumping on journals and telling new growers that the should have purchased this or that, and go off on how they do it instead of helping the new grower find a solution that works for them, thier finances, and their current setup.

I am a firm believer in following VPD, more advanced for new growers, but basing grows on arbitrary rh %s (I feel) is part of the hard time for new growers

Sorry, just going off on a tangent, but I think elder growers should focus on teaching new growers the hows and whys, not the whats.... if that makes sense. I think the big step new growers take, when becoming more comfortable, is finally understanding the plant and growing more. Too many people get it twisted that cannabis is just a plant like any other.... a goddamn weed, lol! Basic gardening practices and the "science" behind it all should always be the first step

But to ignore vpd completely will lead to new growers who start question why their plant isn't as vigorous or doesnt veg as fast. This kind of leads us back to the whys over the hows

It can be very disheartening to watch other growers plants flourish while their's looks "weak"

That isn't an understanding of vpd or proper ventilation and circulation though. All these things are equally important.

I think people see the charts and are told just to by the rh% or that, VPD affectS respiration, nutrient uptake, and can be the true reason behind what might appear to be a nutrient deficiency.

Is it necessary to grow by VPD? No

Is it necessary to understand what it is, what it does and all of the components behind VPD? YES

Sorry if I'm being a pain in the butt, but I was in these new growers shoes a little under a year and a half. My saving grace was because I took the time to learn for myself. Most people dont want to learn, just follow directions

I was trying to keep it "basic" but in layman terms how is saying vpd affect those processes incorrect? Once again, the hows and whys. We have 2 different teaching and learning styles.

Honestly might help everyone @ACSippi if you define what you refer to as VPD.

For me it is an understanding of transpiration and how that interacts with the plants ability to photosynthesize either the water/nutrients they are being provided and the light energy it is receiving.

Understanding proper nutrition, lighting, and environmental inputs are important.

Like you said, you're NOT interested in taking the time to learn it. But you want to teach temp, rh, lighting.... all attributes to what I am referring to. There is a graduate level scientific understanding or a practical understanding of the mechanics to help learn how to "read" and respond to plants. This is very necessary for organic soil growers who do not bottle feed our plants. Not sure what you're other post was referring to about vets, but

Just to use myself (a relatively new grower) as an anecdotal example, i have played with and recorded for myself how adjusting the vpd in my tent can speed up or slow my vegetative growth. I needed my MACdawg to veg slower so I let them coast 0.8 kpa.

Once again, anecdotal evidence from a new/poor home grower. But my point is still the the same, some learners need the why and hows, not just be told which directions to follow


***edited for fat fingers

No, not teaching it, but providing "NGs" with a general understanding of it. How would that be harmful or too much information? They then can learn to dial in their environments (as they should) as the grow. You can show how unimportant it is, but how is sharing knowledge ever bad?

I would rather a "NG" be given the resources and a list of topics that they should research before even germinating a seed. New growers never (me included) never fully calculate the costs involved in this beloved hobby. And I am only referring to hobby growers, not commercial grows, but it is difficult financially to how a bunch of practice grows before they are taught how to actually grow. Instead of giving directions "do this if this," provide links beforehand on materials (printable indexes, charts, diagnosis examples for different problems, etc) so that they can keep and reference for themselves.

No right or wrong way to teach, but things can easily be taught the wrong way. It's been my experience that the learning curve for new processes are generally learned quicker with detailed information to retain ALONG the pracitcal application of the process.

Very gentlemanly of you. Good luck on your endeavors sir

By the way, I hope more "NGs" do turn out like me

First, you have no idea how old I am. Second, understanding the science of the literally oldest science in human society (agriculture) is beneficial ESPECIALLY for new growers

My pops grew, I've been around growers myself since the 90s. Since I wanted to grow for myself I decided to (shocker!!!) Educate myself, but if you want to be right, go ahead big guy. You won a debate on the internet. All because you assume you know anything about me

That's my point, I'm not trying to be a teacher.... you are! But you're not even up to date on the subject!

Anyways, peace and blessing to all... I'm out!

How about, if you really want to compare, you (the master grower) provide the genetic and we can have a comparison grow. I'm down, are you.

My point, and why I kept on it, it that I believe new growers SHOULD be given ALL the information on ALL the different styles and methods of growing so that THEY can CHOOSE for themselves on what works best for their locale, budget, and setup/space.

My key point of contention it that understanding VPD and the plants response to it. Not telling them to dial in thier grow first run, but understanding it will help them dial-in in the future. Create growers with understanding, you know teach a man to fish.

I think everyone can agree that growing comes down to 4 basic elements: lighting, watering, nutrients, and environment. There are a million different ways to attack each one, and that's the beauty of it. So many ways to grow, why hinder growers by saying "do this" since you're new? I've been the type when I trained employees and coaches to break down all the information with the understanding of the final goal.

When people understand what they are doing and not just repeating steps that's when the magic happens. Im not a fan of the way school systems in the US have dumbed society down by playing to the lowest denominator. Why dumb it down when we can make everyone smarter so to speak

For more experienced growers, yes, but new growers should really have an understanding of environmental factors and setups because it will give them a foundation to build on moving forward

To me, no such thing as too much information, just too much BAD information. We are growers should strive to learn all we can about this plant

Watering properly is probably considered the toughest thing for new growers to learn, and takes time and practice. Environmental setup can be learned ahead of time and implemented to limit the possible problems when they arrive and make it easier to diagnose.

Just my opinion, like I said before, I'm just a novice

I'm going to just leave one more thought and then leave this thread to the legit growers.


I learned and studied for 2 years to catch up on all of the current information in growing before germinating my first seed. But I have been around growers since high school, we had an aquaponics with HPS setup. I have argued these same things with my buddies that grow because I'm all about simplicity. I wanted an easy, just water way to grow.

I had 1 thing to learn properly because I researched and educated myself, how to water correctly. I've then worked on dialing in my setup and environment. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but it made my experience so much easier.

I'm not the one throwing shots, just asking what he was referring to, since it seems to be implied as a negative

Everyone jumped on the trigger word "VPD" and negated that I was only advocating for educating new growers over "that's too much information." Go back read every post I made in this thread. I asked questions that were answered by attacking the questioner rather than the question.

Now he is implying I'm sort of grower he avoids, figure it would be nice for the other growers that are like me to know so they can avoid him

@LoveGrowingIt , I agree about lighting being part of environment, I separated because of the emphasis new growers and the industry put on it. Far too many people have fallen for the "more light means more buds" sales programming

I think respect goes a long way. Even when teaching someone, the teacher should expect to learn as well. Be it from the student, his own growth and understanding, or new updates on the material be taught. Teach from common ground not authority

I literally grow by water only. What bad programming and teaching have I fallen for? Do you know my setup, my philosophy in growing, my goals for growing? Lots of assumptions.... and you know what they say about that

Also makes me question your motives. You throw out how everyone has nefarious reasoning for pushing a product or style. What's yours? Can't just be about education or why attack anything I've said

Admittedly I grow in amended living organic soil that I re-amend and recycle. 4th grow, about to go five. I do use a drop of raw organic unfiltered honey to keep the microbes happy, but that's it

I apologize to @Putthataway and anyone else who came onto this thread expecting to learn something and ran into an argument.

I do not appreciate assumptions of me or people trying to "son me" based off those assumptions. Keep it respectful and I will too, but I've always question authority (as other people have mentioned on here), that should spark debate and discussion. That is how we all grow.

@ACSippi , if you want to respond with anything to me, do it in a message, we can debate. Once again I apologize to everyone

Is that a response to any of my questions or another attack on me or a way to stand from authority on your part? In that long rant or at any part of our interaction have you really tried to "teach." Funny to me how you had the perfect opportunity to not only teach ME, but all of the other new growers watching this thread.

Once again, you don't know a single thing about me, so your assumptions make you look stupid.

ONCE AGAIN WHY IS GIVING ALL OF THE INFORMATION TO NEW GROWERS A BAD THING???? Maybe for some, but those are the ones that would need thier hand held the whole time. For others that flourish that way, why dumb them down?

I can appreciate, but the argument can be made both sides (as it should).

I still think that you are hung up on some notion that my main emphasis at any point of this engagement was VPD, but rather giving new growers all credible information available and letting them navigate what works for them.

I explained briefly my viewpoint on that in this thread. Like I said, there are arguments on both sides. I'm a novice, so I dont want to spread my misinformation on this legit growers thread, but you can shoot me a message or discuss on my thread

I don't PH. Why is humidity a factor for flower?

Yup, you made it about me with your assumption and accusations. When you refer to "basics" that is defined by you, since you could have taught at the Cannabis University (debating from authority example), we are supposed to just take your way. But when I ask a simple trigger question about VPD, you gave me the first clue. When you refused to answer my questions, second clue.... see where I'm heading?

I get it, you're good at what you do, but not everyone wants to grow or learns like you!

I mentioned VPD because I have trigger words that I use for growers, vets, and martial artists. 3 areas I have been around my whole life. Based on responses will affect how I engage.

Sorry, guess I just made this about me. I will stop when people stop mentioning ME

That's awesome you know Todd, this is serious, not me trolling. I've been trying to get ahold of him to reach out to Seattle Greg. I'm Bob from Tacoma's son, my parents divorced and I dont know my Washington family too well. If you can get that message out, it would be appreciated

Yeah, I've spoken with him a couple times, figured he was unresponsive because of his mom. Figured you had direct connections, thanks though

I don't have direct connections to anyone on this planet, I just reach out or people reach out to me, that's as far as it goes.

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

Ok ya'll, I need some outside opinions (since most of ya have read what happened.

My advice: Let it go. Take a walk. Clear your head. Get high. Do something you enjoy. Forget about it.

 

[2Water]

My advice: Let it go. Take a walk. Clear your head. Get high. Do something you enjoy. Forget about it.

I tried, but if I'm going to made to look like a problem or bad guy then I'd like to know. I love this site, the people I've met, things I've learned.... but I'm always going to be me, so if I'm the type of individual not wanted on here I'd like know

 

[LoveGrowingIt]

I tried, but if I'm going to made to look like a problem or bad guy then I'd like to know. I love this site, the people I've met, things I've learned.... but I'm always going to be me, so if I'm the type of individual not wanted on here I'd like know

You're not a bad guy. I'm sure you're welcome here. Don't make it more than it is.

 

[Greenadian]

Hey there 2Water if I were you I would totally ignore that fella. I have my opinion about that person....leave it at that. Check out their pics and background.....leave it at that.
Your a good one, so ignore that shit and keep being you!!!!

 

[Putthataway]

There’s no reason to leave. You can just ignore em.

 

[HerbalEdu]

you just need to get over that the fact humanity has been growing and enjoying weed for thousand years without having a single clue about vpd.

vpd knowledge isn't necessary for someone to grow weed he can enjoy.

i think that's mostly the point in the other thread, nothing more

 

[2Water]

There’s no reason to leave. You can just ignore em.

Yeah, I did this morning, that is what spawned this post because literally it went from "glad the problem is gone" (paraphrasing) to still discussing the same topic I was trying to Maybe I just need to unplug for a couple days

 

[2Water]

you just need to get over that the fact humanity has been growing and enjoying weed for thousand years without having a single clue about vpd.

vpd knowledge isn't necessary for someone to grow weed he can enjoy.

Awesome, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Please reread all of my quotes that I shared above. Thanks

 

[HerbalEdu]

that's not my opinion that's thousand years of humanity history bro ...

you have 5 grow behind your belt and your acting like you've seen it all ...

( no offence intended ) just the general feeling i think about the other thread ...

 

[2Water]

that's not my opinion that's thousdand years of humanity history bro ...

you have 5 grow behind your belt and your acting like you've seen it it all ...

Sweet, read my quotes from the thread that I pasted on here. If you want to discuss or debate, let me know, but please for the love of GOD read all of my statements. Thanks

 

[2Water]

you have 5 grow behind your belt and your acting like you've seen it all ...

( no offence intended ) just the general feeling i think about the other thread ...

Well since the other guy didn't want to reply to my questions, from what I wrote above please answer those and we can discuss

 

[Bilber]

( Bilber slips this in, tells 2Water, be water, tuns around and quietly closes the door behind him )

 

[2Water]

( Bilber slips this in, tells 2Water, be water, tuns around and quietly closes the door behind him )

View attachment 2126761

Tsunami or babbling brook that is the everlasting problem with water..... but I appreciate your intent kind sir

 

[2Water]

I love discussing and debating, our society has fallen victim to the idea that arguing is bad. NO, arguing off baseless claim or without support to back up your argument is a waste of time and breath. But the sharing of differing ideas in a respectful manner is beneficial for everyone

 

[HerbalEdu]

well then make your own video tutorial about vpd , but you can't force someone else to include vpd in his tutorial if his opinion is that it's not essential to achieve producing weed you can enjoy.

 

[ACSippi]

Hey there 2Water if I were you I would totally ignore that fella. I have my opinion about that person....leave it at that. Check out their pics and background.....leave it at that.
Your a good one, so ignore that shit and keep being you!!!!

Me? Can't be me, I have nice pics and a solid, spotless background.

 

[2Water]

well then make your own video tutorial about vpd , but you can't force someone else to include vpd in his tutorial if his opinion is that it's not essential to achieve producing weed you can enjoy.

Bro, read his first post, literally asked for other growers of all styles to collectively come together to formulate what the community views as the key basics as a whole...

In my culture, we always downplay ourselves that is why I make and made sure to let it be known that I have only a few independent grows under my belt. It is not my way to impose my way on things unless asked. That is how I am on everything, he asked, I put in my opinion and suggestions, you all were triggered by VPD.

 

[2Water]

Me? Can't be me, I have nice pics and a solid, spotless background.

Feel free to respond to any of my questions I asked