Calling All Positive Good Karma Junkies

[MGRox]

@jumpincactus
I know I'm a bit late here and definitely ill equipped for emotional stuff, but I want to pop in and wish you and your daughter well!
It's good to see you stand behind her and be there to help; I imagine that can be a hard position to be in and I feel for you there. You have the right perspective in knowing that it's ultimately up to her to change and that is also good.
My mother / step father were determined to force a change on me with my "addiction" to marijuana. Suffice it to say I've not spoken to them in 18 years now. (though I intend to meet with my mom at some point to let her know I don't hold things against her and I know she was doing what she thought best).

Perception / perspective = reality. The largest thing is for her to, be able to, change her perspective to a reality that does not have drugs at the top of the list.
Go to a party with a bunch of people and everyone of them will walk out with a different perspective on what the party was like (reality) and they are all correct. Take everyone in a state, country or the world; we all have different perspectives on reality and, to each of us; that perspective / reality is correct. Now there are many cases where multiple perspectives (realities) will have things in common and these could be, in general, agreed upon as a "truth"; however there are many things in life that belong to our own perspective / reality and they are our "choice" for how we absorb them. I.E. back to the first party analogy, if everyone has a good time there, but one person doesn't; that was, in part, his /her own "choice" in perceiving that reality.

With your daughter things are similar too, as humans we do not act irrationally or illogically to our own perspective on reality. The reality for her atm, is that these drugs are the most important and that without these; life would not be enjoyable or easy to deal with. This however, is in part, her choosing; but is totally valid from her perspective. Change will come when she can perceive a higher value in other things and be reinforced with the knowledge that she CAN deal with life and have enjoyment without drugs.

Good wishes being sent your way!

 

[jumpincactus]

Hey, im relatively new in the comunity but i find all your posts very interesting and informative. Thats how i ran into this because i always take a look @ yer threads. Im sending all my best wishes 2u man and positive vibrations. I hope that you and your family overcome this adversity and emerge both stronger and closer from this experience.

Welcome to the Farm @Mr.X Thanks for the kind words man.

 

[jumpincactus]

@jumpincactus
I know I'm a bit late here and definitely ill equipped for emotional stuff, but I want to pop in and wish you and your daughter well!
It's good to see you stand behind her and be there to help; I imagine that can be a hard position to be in and I feel for you there. You have the right perspective in knowing that it's ultimately up to her to change and that is also good.
My mother / step father were determined to force a change on me with my "addiction" to marijuana. Suffice it to say I've not spoken to them in 18 years now. (though I intend to meet with my mom at some point to let her know I don't hold things against her and I know she was doing what she thought best).

Perception / perspective = reality. The largest thing is for her to, be able to, change her perspective to a reality that does not have drugs at the top of the list.
Go to a party with a bunch of people and everyone of them will walk out with a different perspective on what the party was like (reality) and they are all correct. Take everyone in a state, country or the world; we all have different perspectives on reality and, to each of us; that perspective / reality is correct. Now there are many cases where multiple perspectives (realities) will have things in common and these could be, in general, agreed upon as a "truth"; however there are many things in life that belong to our own perspective / reality and they are our "choice" for how we absorb them. I.E. back to the first party analogy, if everyone has a good time there, but one person doesn't; that was, in part, his /her own "choice" in perceiving that reality.

With your daughter things are similar too, as humans we do not act irrationally or illogically to our own perspective on reality. The reality for her atm, is that these drugs are the most important and that without these; life would not be enjoyable or easy to deal with. This however, is in part, her choosing; but is totally valid from her perspective. Change will come when she can perceive a higher value in other things and be reinforced with the knowledge that she CAN deal with life and have enjoyment without drugs.

Good wishes being sent your way!

@MGRox thank you for Your perspective on this. I appreciate you taking the time. I can relate to what you say about the perspective, when I sobered/cleaned up 20 some years ago the toughest part staying sober was wrapping my head around life without alcohol and drugs. Just could not picture having fun without them. Decades later I see now that it was just because I had never done anything without chemical aid. But I have come to learn that life without the booze and hard dope is immensely more enjoyable. And in the process I am more inline with the spiritual nature within me and don't need a bunch of garbage to feel filled. I learned how not to be so selfish and found more joy in giving than receiving. A concept I surely would have scoffed at 20 years ago. Thanks again for stopping in. Peace

 

[jumpincactus]

Bit of an update. I talked to Alicia today and she has decided not to go to inpatient. Ran some random BS on me. She has a whoppin few days clean and is talking about how great she feels yada yada yada. Riding a pink cloud and convinced she can do it on her own. I see so much of me in her. When I first got clean I didn't have a humble bone in my body and was convinced I go ride solo, it damn near killed me.
Ive been around long enough to know she truly isnt ready yet. I warned her that with each relapse it gets harder to find your way home. She gave me that "yea I know Dad it will be ok". I used to tell peeps that shit too and was really feeling like the little kid whistling past the grave yard in the dark.

I thought that way 24 years ago and my shit almost buried me. I was really hopeful she was done this time but today wasn't very encouraging. I offered to take her to a NA meeting tonight and she wanted to hike with one of her junkie buddies instead. That doesn't sound like an addict that's done to me. Powerless over people,places & things!!!!

All is I can say at this point is, "but for the grace of God, there go I" ........... Much love Peace

 

[Mr.X]

Patience is the key bro, she will come to the realization when shes good and ready. Shes not going to do it for you , her beautiful daughter or anyone but herself. All those who care can do is watch be patient and pick up the broken pieces. Hopefully there will be enough for her to be who she once was. I know 1st hand the heartache and pain that addiction causes in a family. But remember relapse is part of the recovery process. It sounds corny but, when shes tired of being sick and tired as long as she has a loving and understanding father as you seem to be. She might just be all right. Hang in there and stay strong, not only for yourself but for all. Avoiding people places N things is the key @ 1st, clearly shes not quite there yet. Hang in there man N jus keep on keepin on. Much luck, blessings and positive vibrations to you and yours in this difficult time.

 

[LittleDabbie]

Wishing her and you the best of luck bro!

 

[chickenman]

Bit of an update. I talked to Alicia today and she has decided not to go to inpatient. Ran some random BS on me. She has a whoppin few days clean and is talking about how great she feels yada yada yada. Riding a pink cloud and convinced she can do it on her own. I see so much of me in her. When I first got clean I didn't have a humble bone in my body and was convinced I go ride solo, it damn near killed me.
Ive been around long enough to know she truly isnt ready yet. I warned her that with each relapse it gets harder to find your way home. She gave me that "yea I know Dad it will be ok". I used to tell peeps that shit too and was really feeling like the little kid whistling past the grave yard in the dark.

I thought that way 24 years ago and my shit almost buried me. I was really hopeful she was done this time but today wasn't very encouraging. I offered to take her to a NA meeting tonight and she wanted to hike with one of her junkie buddies instead. That doesn't sound like an addict that's done to me. Powerless over people,places & things!!!!

All is I can say at this point is, "but for the grace of God, there go I" ........... Much love Peace

Sorry about all this. Looks like you have been down the road as well.
No one can beat this alone. Chances are 100% she will use again if she's out hanging around so called friends who use.
Tough love?
Give her the choice either accept rehab or have nothing to do with her is what some believe is the only way.
Really is a hard decision. What if you do give her the choice and she uses and you loose her. If she continues on with or without the choice she and you and the child will surely be miserable either way.
best is not to enable her to manipulate to get her way as her way has gotten her into this mess in the 1st place. Us addicts are masters of manipulating, even fooling ourselves, which she is doing right now.
She don't even know what she is up against the addiction is so powerful, cunning baffling and patient.
She has to decide what more important. Your love, her child, her life.
She would have so much to look forward to if she got sober.
She has to make the decision before its too late what really matters in her life.
Right now is the time. The choice worked for me.
I either quit my drinking, my health was suffering, but worse would have been the loss of the person who saw the goodness in me, the person who loved me despite my addiction.
That person is my wife who told me from the bottom of her heart she loved me so much she would have to let me go as she cannot and will not see me destroy myself as well as herself.
Have you tried an intervention? Gather up non using friends and family and explain we love you so very much and you are such a wonderful gift and you have so much to offer but we cannot and will not allow this to go on.
explain it's now or never. Like they say in AA, Na, 1/2 measures get us nowhere.
Do or die. Tough love, is really just that really tough.
I really care and hate to see you and her or anyone else for that matter suffer as I know what suffering is all about.
The other side of darkness is pure light. Putting the past behind and living happy and free with no guilt or shame. Being happy and free sure beats the sickness of addiction.
This rant also helps me keep on track and gives me courage to carry on. I only have the courage, I am not stronger than the addiction, it wins every time.
But I also must remember I surrendered to the fact that the 1st sip I will loose everything I have achieved and all my happiness wil turn to deep sorrow and I have no more recoveries left.
sweet surrender...Courage, strength, wisdom, one never can get enough...
Keep you own head on, do your best..
Maybe also seek help thru alanon or other avenues of support and advice for those who are in your shoes...

 

[jumpincactus]

Sorry about all this. Looks like you have been down the road as well.
No one can beat this alone. Chances are 100% she will use again if she's out hanging around so called friends who use.
Tough love?
Give her the choice either accept rehab or have nothing to do with her is what some believe is the only way.
Really is a hard decision. What if you do give her the choice and she uses and you loose her. If she continues on with or without the choice she and you and the child will surely be miserable either way.
best is not to enable her to manipulate to get her way as her way has gotten her into this mess in the 1st place. Us addicts are masters of manipulating, even fooling ourselves, which she is doing right now.
She don't even know what she is up against the addiction is so powerful, cunning baffling and patient.
She has to decide what more important. Your love, her child, her life.
She would have so much to look forward to if she got sober.
She has to make the decision before its too late what really matters in her life.
Right now is the time. The choice worked for me.
I either quit my drinking, my health was suffering, but worse would have been the loss of the person who saw the goodness in me, the person who loved me despite my addiction.
That person is my wife who told me from the bottom of her heart she loved me so much she would have to let me go as she cannot and will not see me destroy myself as well as herself.
Have you tried an intervention? Gather up non using friends and family and explain we love you so very much and you are such a wonderful gift and you have so much to offer but we cannot and will not allow this to go on.
explain it's now or never. Like they say in AA, Na, 1/2 measures get us nowhere.
Do or die. Tough love, is really just that really tough.
I really care and hate to see you and her or anyone else for that matter suffer as I know what suffering is all about.
The other side of darkness is pure light. Putting the past behind and living happy and free with no guilt or shame. Being happy and free sure beats the sickness of addiction.
This rant also helps me keep on track and gives me courage to carry on. I only have the courage, I am not stronger than the addiction, it wins every time.
But I also must remember I surrendered to the fact that the 1st sip I will loose everything I have achieved and all my happiness wil turn to deep sorrow and I have no more recoveries left.
sweet surrender...Courage, strength, wisdom, one never can get enough...
Keep you own head on, do your best..
Maybe also seek help thru alanon or other avenues of support and advice for those who are in your shoes...

This was not a rant by any means @chickenman I appreciate your sharing a bit about yourself. It one alkie reaching out to another. Thats how it works!!!!! I appreciate your sharing brother.

The tough part is having been down the rocky road and having had success thru the grace of my HP and others in recovery, I know what it takes to get and stay clean. Thats why it is so heart breaking. I know in my heart of hearts that the recovery rate is all contingent on HER being ready and until that time all I can really do is continue to be there for her and live by example. The scary part is some never get ready and are lost beyond repair.

What blew me away was when she tried using addict tactics on me and she got really pissed at me when I wouldn't loan her any money yesterday. Went something like this, " I thought you said you were always going to be there for me", you said anything I needed" (screw guilt baby gurl) I didnt say that but was what I was thinking......... My response was "Alicia I love you more than you know, I realize your are struggling right now and yes I meant what I said about being there for you", but with your hanging out with Amber who is actively using, I will not loan you any money as I feel that would be enabling you both to use. Being there for you doesn't mean being a money source for your additction. I will take you to meetings, I will support you spiritually and mentally. I will share with you the tools I have been given in my recovery and my door will always be open as long as you are clean and stay clean.

Suffice to say it didn't go well. She is knee deep in self deception and is lacking the humility she will need to reach her hand out and say I NEED HELP!!!!! I will continue to send good vibes and assist in anyway I can, but until she stops the ole playground and playmates I don't see there is much more I can do. It's not about me its about her. I know the insidiousness of what she is battling and I really hope she makes it. No father should have to bury his children. I buried a son in 86 and I don't think I could bear another. In closing I do have tools today that I can use for my own personal sanity. They have served me well over 23 years. Thank you again for taking the time man it really means a lot to me.

Peace

 

[Mr.DreamBoat]

Your doing good, stay positive!

 

[jumpincactus]

Nice avatar @Mr.DreamBoat !!! Thanks for the positive vibes

 

[jumpincactus]

@chickenman said "Have you tried an intervention? Gather up non using friends and family and explain we love you so very much and you are such a wonderful gift and you have so much to offer but we cannot and will not allow this to go on."

There in lies my struggle, my ex does nothing but enable the behavior. Every time Alicia gets spun out on meth, 6 mos later when she shows up broke and battered Mom takes her in, lets her get healthy a bit and then its off to the races again. I on the other hand, told her years ago that when she is ripping and running she isn't allowed to stay with us unless she lets me drive her to rehab. Obviously she goes with Mom and NO ride to treatment. This has been going on 6 years now. When I have tried an intervention with them both present Mom makes excuses for baby gurl and I get ganged up on.

I have seen hundreds of addicts over the years and truth be known she doesn't have a lot of gas left in her tank. I attempted to explain to her that eventually it will become impossible to make it back from the pits. She doesn't yet get the gravity of what she is F&&&&&& with. Hopefully she wont lose the baby or die during the process, or end up in the joint.

Talked to my sponsor the other day and he said all I can do is pray and wait. So that is what I am doing. I wanted to again thank everyone that has stopped and contributed to this thread. You all are frikkn awesome!!!!

 

[kolah]

Y'all are in my morning and evening prayers!

 

[altitudefarmer]

Good vibes and positive thoughts, prayers etc coming to you from CO. Addiction is a roughroad for all involved. You're doing the right thing; be strong in love.
Peace, Alt

 

[MrBelvedere]

There are many addiction counselors who notice that a large majority of their patients suffer from some kind of Acute or Complex trauma through their life, and one of the most effective ways to treat the trauma, anger, loathing, and grief is by self medication. The law, society, and family members criminalize this self medication, resulting in continuing the trauma. Huge amounts of people in prison have witnessed horrors when they were "innocent and free"... but after experiencing trauma developed fight-or-flight responses and PTSD.

Going to meetings works for many people, but it is not the only way to stop using a substance. I've never met a strong person that likes to be forcefully made to do something. Choices yes, Force no. Being forced to vocally affirm and accept you're an addict does not work for people who've made up their mind they are not an addict.

The addict may be incredibly strong inside, hate authority, and reject all mandates and advice. It may have to be that stopping using is "their idea" and their idea alone. Sometimes going to a meeting about Anger Management or PTSD may be more effective than a NA meeting. NA meetings may be PTSD meetings in disguise. The person who can rise above will appreciate unconditional love (which is not the same as enabling).

Chickenmans advice about going to a support meeting is great, sometimes happiness is contagious.

Beating somebody in the head with a treatment hammer seldom works.

Hopefully somebody with PTSD or CPTSD trying to stop using a man made drug will "remember on their own" how nice cannabis is for relief! And turning good music up louder helps also.

This is a great plain English explanation on PTSD brain chemistry
http://www.washacadsci.org/Journal/Journalarticles/V.93-3-Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Sethanne Howard and Mark Crandalll.pdf

let it be

 

[G gnome]

I know its a helpless feeling having to stand by and watch your daughter go down this road,man. She needs to find her bottom wherever that is. Whether it be a jail or d.c.f.s. getting the baby. Everyone has their own bottom. I imagine by now the thrill of getting high for her is long gone. Its as we say in the rooms "using against our will".
Its not a matter of will power as I have read some very well meaning people write in this thread. In fact its my contention that its in fact the exact opposite. Its about surrender. Obviously thats only my opinion. When I stopped deluding myself and realized I have no control over my addiction. I realized that was in fact the nature of the problem I had lost all control. I realized I cant use successfully, that there would never be a balance struck between me and drugs. It is ,for an addict, a hard pill to swallow (no pun intended).
I know she can do it cuz i did it.
I was as hopeless as they get. I now have more confidence than i have ever had. Ifeel better than i ever have. Im stronger than I ever was(both mentally and physically)
Not to mention making real connections w my fam and friends. I had no idea how much i lost till i got it all back and more.
This is what she has to look forward to and you can tell her G gnome says so.
I'm talking about real bliss,spirituality, trust ,love, and most of all a clear conscience. Being able to take comfort in knowing that you are improving. The instant gratification we as addicts get from drugs doesn't hold a candle to the satisfaction we as addicts get from climbing back up from our bottom.
Your doin the right thing brother. Let us know how shes doin. Best wishes

 

[G gnome]

Correction : I didn't do it. I'm doing it one day at a time.

 

[G gnome]

This has been a message of inspiration from your friends at thc farmer community

 

[chickenman]

This has been a message of inspiration from your friends at thc farmer community

Some folks around here may resent my sharing of my life's happiness and even have said they are jealous.
Well it was not so joyful for many years.
If you went thru what I have been thru,depression, misery, confusion, lies, stealing, fooling self and others, helplessness, fear, doubt, all that was due to the lifestyle based on lies to self.
Once I learned that absolute honesty honesty is the only way to deal with all aspects in life then I realized what was needed to achieve serenity and happiness.
Admitting that I am a loser when it came to my demon, alcohol, and I am powerless, and the 1st sip will bring back all the pain, it is just not worth going there ever again but only just for today, yesterday's in the past, tomorrow will come do what is needed then but just for today right now to not take the sip and in time things have worked out far far beyond my wildest hopes and dreams.
So many people loved me but hated to see my destruction. Once I learned to love my self it is so much easier to keep the jug plugged. The only fear I sometimes have is the occasional stinking thinking that happens now and again. Sometimes I can just taste a nice cold QUALITY beer..
It's just amazing how faith in my higher power which is the little bit of land right outside my back door has been my strength. All I have to do is recall in my mind the feeling I got when I first stepped foot here and the promise I made to myself to make this work and become mine.
I look around and it still is the most beautiful place I have ever seen and we have made so much of what we got that power is so strong and the feeling could not ever be replaced by drinking which would destroy everything I have attained and worked so hard for.
So I hope my sharing is an inspiration to help others find happiness and serenity.
Misery isn't free, I got to be free...

 

[FlyinJStable]

YOU all took care of me here when I couldn't take care of Myself
Now I try to give back every DAY
@jumpincactus "This to Shall Pass" Kinda Hard as F&^% when its your Kid..
We all try to share here. We talk and be here in a place that ties us, the love for the Plant and in most part Compassion.
My sponsor would say each of us have a story that has yet to find its end, for some we find that Moment of Clarity and
crawl from that Big ass hole we dig for our-self.
Thats the Nightmare, our-self, For this addict (Me) I was able to find my Bottom
the day my Son died from a drug Overdose,
and with A lot of support and help from The Farm (Group Therapy) (Cultivation therapy) and whole lot of 90/90
there I go and live today for today.
But I now know I could not have Changed what My Boy did.
I cant change People Places and Things All I can do, is share my Experience strength and Hope with you and say Do what you can Do, help with the part you can help with, Know you are there for her, But let that be your Part....
To say you have done all you can do, and for this addict that's what has helped me.
and the rest IS up to her and her Choice in her disease.
Stay Strong and be the example of doing the next right thing Bro.
Sending all the FlyinJ Vibes I have

 

[G gnome]

YOU all took care of me here when I couldn't take care of Myself
Now I try to give back every DAY
@jumpincactus "This to Shall Pass" Kinda Hard as F&^% when its your Kid..
We all try to share here. We talk and be here in a place that ties us, the love for the Plant and in most part Compassion.
My sponsor would say each of us have a story that has yet to find its end, for some we find that Moment of Clarity and
crawl from that Big ass hole we dig for our-self.
Thats the Nightmare, our-self, For this addict (Me) I was able to find my Bottom
the day my Son died from a drug Overdose,
and with A lot of support and help from The Farm (Group Therapy) (Cultivation therapy) and whole lot of 90/90
there I go and live today for today.
But I now know I could not have Changed what My Boy did.
I cant change People Places and Things All I can do, is share my Experience strength and Hope with you and say Do what you can Do, help with the part you can help with, Know you are there for her, But let that be your Part....
To say you have done all you can do, and for this addict that's what has helped me.
and the rest IS up to her and her Choice in her disease.
Stay Strong and be the example of doing the next right thing Bro.
Sending all the FlyinJ Vibes I have

Well said