Desperately needing help. Dead and dying

[Aqua Man]

I agree look chronically underwatered. And I'd say that was likely the cause of all the other issues

 

[Lacey]

Mix all this into one and give it. Not to much at a time, give the plant time to realize it's getting fed.

ok, I will get it done. Thank You

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Be sure and water with a probe. That alone will solve many issues.

 

[OldManRiver]

Mix all this into one and give it. Not to much at a time, give the plant time to realize it's getting fed.

The guy's plants died because of being overfertilized. And everyone here is telling him to feed more.

This is what they grow too if you leave them alone. Those were fertilized less than once a month so far.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

The guy's plants died because of being overfertilized. And everyone here is telling him to feed more.

This is what they grow too if you leave them alone. Those were fertilized less than once a month so far.

I hear you, but his watering caused all sorts of issues, not the least of which is a lockout of everything.
If the plant has no water, its not getting fed.
It needs to get pushed into health quickly, and that is going to include a gentle feeding.
Reduce lights by 15% - 20% until it recovers.

 

[Aqua Man]

The guy's plants died because of being overfertilized. And everyone here is telling him to feed more.

This is what they grow too if you leave them alone. Those were fertilized less than once a month so far.

Water more not feed more. They are over ferted because nutrients concentrate when underwatered.

 

[Lacey]

Water more not feed more. They are over ferted because nutrients concentrate when underwatered.

I just learned something! I had NO idea nutrients concentrate when underwatered.
.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

I just learned something! I had NO idea nutrients concentrate when underwatered.
.

Very much so. They have to be dilute for the plant to absorb them.

 

[Aqua Man]

Very much so. They have to be dilute for the plant to absorb them.

Yep they will become more concentrated and you will see tox signs then as it gets worse the plant become salt stressed due to the salinity. Pretty much stops the plant from uptaking water and nutrients and it just snowballs from there.

 

[Lacey]

Very much so. They have to be dilute for the plant to absorb them.

Things get so confusing. Maybe I am just that new to this.
I worry about overwatering, so I wait till the soil dries out, But if the soil gets to dry then the nutrients gets concentrated and thats bad too. Maybe I am waiting till they get too dry before watering. Crap... I hope I get the hang of this stuff.
The best plant we had was in my veggie garden. Then... BAM high winds came and tore her out of the ground! The winds also took some of my veggies as well. No one was expecting that much or that strong of winds either. No one was prepared. My point was.... She got fed twice and was always forgotten about on feeding day. She was also in the ground and not in a grow pot..... Ohhhhhhhhhh I think I get it now.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Things get so confusing. Maybe I am just that new to this.
I worry about overwatering, so I wait till the soil dries out, But if the soil gets to dry then the nutrients gets concentrated and thats bad too. Maybe I am waiting till they get too dry before watering. Crap... I hope I get the hang of this stuff.
The best plant we had was in my veggie garden. Then... BAM high winds came and tore her out of the ground! The winds also took some of my veggies as well. No one was expecting that much or that strong of winds either. No one was prepared. My point was.... She got fed twice and was always forgotten about on feeding day. She was also in the ground and not in a grow pot..... Ohhhhhhhhhh I think I get it now.

Outside grows feed naturally, from the soil. They take what they need when they need it, instead of having to take whats given and when. Your plant needs about 95% water and 5% nutes over it's entire life.

 

[Aqua Man]

You may have hydrophobic areas in the soil now so you may want to aerate it with a coat hanger and really soak it once. Aerating then watering and then watering again like 20 min later. Then let it dry well before watering again

 

[OldManRiver]

I hear you, but his watering caused all sorts of issues, not the least of which is a lockout of everything.
If the plant has no water, its not getting fed.
It needs to get pushed into health quickly, and that is going to include a gentle feeding.
Reduce lights by 15% - 20% until it recovers.

I love that you are an active participant here, and appreciate that you want to help. Your recommendations are, as near as I can tell, a little off. I assert this because of my 40 years of experience, in both hydro and soil. Example points:

1) Lockout is usually used to described the situation where pH or combination of fertilizer mixes* causes the constituents of a fertilizer to precipitate out into an insoluble form, causing the ingredients to be unavailable to a plant, I haven't seen you investigating pH here, and many posters are suggesting mixes from various manufacturers to add, which is a recipe for failure, see below. I don't think you should advise people on lockout. "I don't that word means what you think it means."

2) There is no evidence of underwatering or indeed, any watering problem, when the plant never wilted. Any overwatering happened after the plants were well on the way to dying.

3) The OP has been fertilizing the shit out of his plants, and they died, showing pretty clear signs of poisoning. That said, the poster above suggesting fungus may be on point. Suggesting more feeding is simply off target. See my calculation following, for an illustration.

4) you seem to not understand that fertilizer is not food, and that plants cannot use fertilizer in excess of what the available growing conditions allows them to use, as an adjunct to the core requirements of CO2 and water. You cannot 'feed' a plant into growing more. Period. Plants can only grow more if there is plenty of light and the general conditions are agreeable (temp, pH, CO2, water, drainage.). Only when the growing machine is working can they utilize and need fertilizer. NUTES ARE NOT FOOD. Using the word 'feed' simply perpetuates this gross misunderstanding by weed growers.

Plants need much less fertilizer than weed fertilizer companies want you to think they need. To see what pot actually might use, see this: https://hempindustrydaily.com/top-points-to-consider-before-fertilizing-and-amending-soil-on-outdoor-hemp-and-marijuana-farms/#:~:text=A general guide for fiber,a hemp-genetics company in. It's for hemp, but cannabis is going to be in the same range, or less, because we nitrogen starve late in the crop. I just did the math, using 150 lbs per acre, and extrapolating those figures to a 16 square foot grow room equates to using 223 ml of 12% N mix over the entire grow. That's fifteen tablespoons (just under a cup) over the entire crop. OP, how much more than this did you use, I wonder?

A lot of successful growing is NOT doing something more. We want so bad for the plant to succeed, so we do more, and it struggles more, so we do more. That's how "what's happening with my plant posts" happen. Then everyone who has managed to get 6 ounces out of a grow once starts chiming in, not realizing that they didn't do that great, either. I have learned a lot from reading general farming advice from state departments of agriculture, and general gardening sources. If someone can get 20 lbs of tomatoes out of a plant with a 1/4 cup of general purpose fertilizer applied once, maybe we should consider that pot doesn't need that much either. My experience, shown above, demonstrates that not much is needed. I've been growing weed in large quantities since the 80's, and do lots of other gardening that leads me to these beliefs.

OP, do less on this run, and see what happens. My recommendation is to ignore the "Add this" comments, use a 1/2 strength mix of your preferred brand, a third as often as the seller wants you to. In soil, any more than every two weeks is a waste and dangerous. This does assume large enough pots. I'm at once a month or less. I use 60 ml in 5 gallons of water, which is 60% recommended strength. I did that twice since April, and two treatments now of the same strength bloom. I may do one more. The above calculation was 223 ml of 12% N for a 16 foot room, I'm at 240 ml, of a product that is 25% as strong, for 3 times the area. Good luck.



* Note: mixing of components from different makers is dangerous. There are various base components that can be used to provide nitrogen and potassium. You have to pair them correctly, or they combine and precipitate out. If you mix brands, where they used different choices, they can either neutralize each other, or be too hot. Let the chemist at one brand figure this out for you, and stay in the brand. They're all fine. It's ain't which brand you are using that is hurting you.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

You know what @OldManRiver ? You are right. Hang on, I did not read your entire response but I agree with you. It totally slipped my mind until the dilution comment came up that all that food is still sitting in the soil. On that realization I change my answer to put the entire pot in a giant bucket of water and start poking holes in the rootball.

Now, I'll go read what you wrote.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

I love that you are an active participant here, and appreciate that you want to help. Your recommendations are, as near as I can tell, a little off. I assert this because of my 40 years of experience, in both hydro and soil. Example points:

1) Lockout is usually used to described the situation where pH or combination of fertilizer mixes* causes the constituents of a fertilizer to precipitate out into an insoluble form, causing the ingredients to be unavailable to a plant, I haven't seen you investigating pH here, and many posters are suggesting mixes from various manufacturers to add, which is a recipe for failure, see below. I don't think you should advise people on lockout. "I don't that word means what you think it means." Yes, my poor choice of words. You are correct. I meant to say a physical lockout where the tubeules or whatever they are called that transport the water up the stalk... They shrink and the water can not penetrate. When one collapses, it dies above it, or so I understand it.

2) There is no evidence of underwatering or indeed, any watering problem, when the plant never wilted. Any overwatering happened after the plants were well on the way to dying. This makes sense because it did not look like it had been over/under. I pretty much reconize both of those and this does not look like either.

3) The OP has been fertilizing the shit out of his plants, and they died, showing pretty clear signs of poisoning. That said, the poster above suggesting fungus may be on point. Suggesting more feeding is simply off target. See my calculation following, for an illustration. As I pointed out in my previous thread, that point came to me.

4) you seem to not understand that fertilizer is not food, and that plants cannot use fertilizer in excess of what the available growing conditions allows them to use, as an adjunct to the core requirements of CO2 and water. You cannot 'feed' a plant into growing more. Period. Plants can only grow more if there is plenty of light and the general conditions are agreeable (temp, pH, CO2, water, drainage.). Only when the growing machine is working can they utilize and need fertilizer. NUTES ARE NOT FOOD. Using the word 'feed' simply perpetuates this gross misunderstanding by weed growers. I think my previous post also handle this. I've pretty much said this same thing in various scattered posts around the forum but I don't think as succinctly as you have here. Thanx. Mind if I steal it?

Plants need much less fertilizer than weed fertilizer companies want you to think they need. To see what pot actually might use, see this: https://hempindustrydaily.com/top-points-to-consider-before-fertilizing-and-amending-soil-on-outdoor-hemp-and-marijuana-farms/#:~:text=A general guide for fiber,a hemp-genetics company in. It's for hemp, but cannabis is going to be in the same range, or less, because we nitrogen starve late in the crop. I just did the math, using 150 lbs per acre, and extrapolating those figures to a 16 square foot grow room equates to using 223 ml of 12% N mix over the entire grow. That's fifteen tablespoons (just under a cup) over the entire crop. OP, how much more than this did you use, I wonder? On this, I will refer you to the true organic vs. corporate greed thread of last week....

A lot of successful growing is NOT doing something more. We want so bad for the plant to succeed, so we do more, and it struggles more, so we do more. That's how "what's happening with my plant posts" happen. Then everyone who has managed to get 6 ounces out of a grow once starts chiming in, not realizing that they didn't do that great, either. I have learned a lot from reading general farming advice from state departments of agriculture, and general gardening sources. If someone can get 20 lbs of tomatoes out of a plant with a 1/4 cup of general purpose fertilizer applied once, maybe we should consider that pot doesn't need that much either. My experience, shown above, demonstrates that not much is needed. I've been growing weed in large quantities since the 80's, and do lots of other gardening that leads me to these beliefs. One of my most common caveat's "cut the mfgr's chart numbers in half at least."

OP, do less on this run, and see what happens. My recommendation is to ignore the "Add this" comments, use a 1/2 strength mix of your preferred brand, a third as often as the seller wants you to. In soil, any more than every two weeks is a waste and dangerous. This does assume large enough pots. I'm at once a month or less. I use 60 ml in 5 gallons of water, which is 60% recommended strength. I did that twice since April, and two treatments now of the same strength bloom. I may do one more. The above calculation was 223 ml for a 16 foot, I'm at 240 ml, of a product that is 25% as strong, for 3 times the area. Or listen to the one crop Johnies. Good luck.



* Note: mixing of components from different makers is dangerous. There are various base components that can be used to provide nitrogen and potassium. You have to pair them correctly, or they combine and precipitate out. If you mix brands, where they used different choices, they can either neutralize each other, or be too hot. Let the chemist at one brand figure this out for you, and stay in the brand. They're all fine. It's ain't which brand you are using that is hurting you. My bad. Very good point. Thanx for the reminder.

Thank you! read above^^

 

[mancorn]

Things get so confusing. Maybe I am just that new to this.
I worry about overwatering, so I wait till the soil dries out, But if the soil gets to dry then the nutrients gets concentrated and thats bad too. Maybe I am waiting till they get too dry before watering. Crap... I hope I get the hang of this stuff.
The best plant we had was in my veggie garden. Then... BAM high winds came and tore her out of the ground! The winds also took some of my veggies as well. No one was expecting that much or that strong of winds either. No one was prepared. My point was.... She got fed twice and was always forgotten about on feeding day. She was also in the ground and not in a grow pot..... Ohhhhhhhhhh I think I get it now.

I found a girl over in the boy section. It was being abused (like you do for the pollen chuckers). Once I noticed my mistake I up-potted to a 25gal fabric and gave her some food. It’s still an afterthought, but surprise, surprise shes doing as well as the main event. Sometimes less is more.

 

[Aqua Man]

I love that you are an active participant here, and appreciate that you want to help. Your recommendations are, as near as I can tell, a little off. I assert this because of my 40 years of experience, in both hydro and soil. Example points:

1) Lockout is usually used to described the situation where pH or combination of fertilizer mixes* causes the constituents of a fertilizer to precipitate out into an insoluble form, causing the ingredients to be unavailable to a plant, I haven't seen you investigating pH here, and many posters are suggesting mixes from various manufacturers to add, which is a recipe for failure, see below. I don't think you should advise people on lockout. "I don't that word means what you think it means."

2) There is no evidence of underwatering or indeed, any watering problem, when the plant never wilted. Any overwatering happened after the plants were well on the way to dying.

3) The OP has been fertilizing the shit out of his plants, and they died, showing pretty clear signs of poisoning. That said, the poster above suggesting fungus may be on point. Suggesting more feeding is simply off target. See my calculation following, for an illustration.

4) you seem to not understand that fertilizer is not food, and that plants cannot use fertilizer in excess of what the available growing conditions allows them to use, as an adjunct to the core requirements of CO2 and water. You cannot 'feed' a plant into growing more. Period. Plants can only grow more if there is plenty of light and the general conditions are agreeable (temp, pH, CO2, water, drainage.). Only when the growing machine is working can they utilize and need fertilizer. NUTES ARE NOT FOOD. Using the word 'feed' simply perpetuates this gross misunderstanding by weed growers.

Plants need much less fertilizer than weed fertilizer companies want you to think they need. To see what pot actually might use, see this: https://hempindustrydaily.com/top-points-to-consider-before-fertilizing-and-amending-soil-on-outdoor-hemp-and-marijuana-farms/#:~:text=A general guide for fiber,a hemp-genetics company in. It's for hemp, but cannabis is going to be in the same range, or less, because we nitrogen starve late in the crop. I just did the math, using 150 lbs per acre, and extrapolating those figures to a 16 square foot grow room equates to using 223 ml of 12% N mix over the entire grow. That's fifteen tablespoons (just under a cup) over the entire crop. OP, how much more than this did you use, I wonder?

A lot of successful growing is NOT doing something more. We want so bad for the plant to succeed, so we do more, and it struggles more, so we do more. That's how "what's happening with my plant posts" happen. Then everyone who has managed to get 6 ounces out of a grow once starts chiming in, not realizing that they didn't do that great, either. I have learned a lot from reading general farming advice from state departments of agriculture, and general gardening sources. If someone can get 20 lbs of tomatoes out of a plant with a 1/4 cup of general purpose fertilizer applied once, maybe we should consider that pot doesn't need that much either. My experience, shown above, demonstrates that not much is needed. I've been growing weed in large quantities since the 80's, and do lots of other gardening that leads me to these beliefs.

OP, do less on this run, and see what happens. My recommendation is to ignore the "Add this" comments, use a 1/2 strength mix of your preferred brand, a third as often as the seller wants you to. In soil, any more than every two weeks is a waste and dangerous. This does assume large enough pots. I'm at once a month or less. I use 60 ml in 5 gallons of water, which is 60% recommended strength. I did that twice since April, and two treatments now of the same strength bloom. I may do one more. The above calculation was 223 ml of 12% N for a 16 foot room, I'm at 240 ml, of a product that is 25% as strong, for 3 times the area. Good luck.



* Note: mixing of components from different makers is dangerous. There are various base components that can be used to provide nitrogen and potassium. You have to pair them correctly, or they combine and precipitate out. If you mix brands, where they used different choices, they can either neutralize each other, or be too hot. Let the chemist at one brand figure this out for you, and stay in the brand. They're all fine. It's ain't which brand you are using that is hurting you.

1. Nutrient lockout is usually from 1 of 2 causes. PH and salinity (salt as commonly referred to) when nutrients become concentrated it can cause a lockout. But I think we are kinda saying the same thing.

2. The plant may droop and not completely wilt if the soil doesn't completely get bone dry. As it gets closer it will wilt more. The key to watch is that if the drops is inclusive of petiole. Lack of swelling in the leaf interveinal tissue and a papery texture.

It will also cause salt stress as the water will become more concentrated.

I'd say evidence is in the roots staying shallow as roots do not grow into dry soil.

3. Agree over ferting. But the fungus imo is a result of poor plant health .among it susceptible. I can't say if it is fungus though I didn't really look. Either way I'm pretty sure it was an after effect.

100% with you on the rest. I mean feed, nutrients etc. While I agree is just semantics

 

[lvstealth]

next time transplant your clones a few pot sizes up before putting it into a 10 gallon pot.

you start in a solo, go to a 1 gal, then a 3 or 5 then the 10.

a solo cup of roots planted in the top bit of ten gallons of dirt needs a LOT of attention and care to get the roots going. you water your gallon of water, which is 1 tenth of the container, and it goes right through to the bottom. it does this because that root bundle is of a different density and compression rate with a crowding of roots in it, so the water goes right around it and to the bottom.

normally, when you take the solo to the 1 gal, it only has a bit of space for the roots to work their way to the water. so the plant gets a bit sad, but swaps its efforts to making roots get to water and veg growth slows and the plant wants to eat its reserves (starting at the bottom, leaves start to shrivel and crinkle and brown) with a solo to a 1 gal, this is not difficult, and doesnt take so long. so the plant doesnt eat itself much and goes right along.

poking something into the original root ball will let some water get to it, but you are in save it mode.

 

[lvstealth]

just a side note. you seem to let things get way to complicated.

i think some people "get" plants better and maybe could be said to have green thumbs, but for the most part it is just following well established procedures. the plant is a weed and allows for a lot of goofs, but a total lack of research adds to the negative side more than the determination you have adds to the end goal.

maybe take a pause, read a lot more, then regroup and go again.

youve been at this for several months with no results to smoke. id say it is time to do the research needed to make a successful endeavor. you seem to hear some idea and run full force into it just to fail again. maybe just go with one, or two... find what works then go with your dreams.

watering is important, it is something that has to be learned. read Aquas post on watering, then read it again. use the pots weight not "time" to water. water till some water runs out the bottom. if soil, just a tad not even a cup. just the fact that you water on a time table will cause issues. the fact that you use some arbitrary amount will cause issues. those are the two most basic things and they are written all over the site this thread and the internet, so not such a secret.

im not intentionally trying to be ugly, i just see the effort overcoming the desire and that is no good. your persistence is admirable, but could be productive with the needed research.

 

[BorealCuring]

just a side note. you seem to let things get way to complicated.
[snip]
youve been at this for several months with no results to smoke. id say it is time to do the research needed to make a successful endeavor. you seem to hear some idea and run full force into it just to fail again. maybe just go with one, or two... find what works then go with your dreams.

watering is important, it is something that has to be learned. read Aquas post on watering, then read it again. use the pots weight not "time" to water. water till some water runs out the bottom. if soil, just a tad not even a cup. just the fact that you water on a time table will cause issues. the fact that you use some arbitrary amount will cause issues. those are the two most basic things and they are written all over the site this thread and the internet, so not such a secret.

im not intentionally trying to be ugly, i just see the effort overcoming the desire and that is no good. your persistence is admirable, but could be productive with the needed research.

When I was 20, I wanted a motorcycle so I went out and bought a Suzuki Katana because it was soooo cool. Not the best choice for a first bike. As you can imagine, it didn't turn out well and took 6 months out of my life. I should have started out with a 250cc Honda and took the advice of older riders. I'm in my 60s now and much wiser. lol.

I suggest the OP start with 6 small pots with supersoil and run them to finish with proper grow lights. He's still likely to run into issues, just nothing fatal. Learning how to grow takes research and time. Like riding a bike, it's all in the nuances, not the engine.