Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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638
Glad I stumbled upon this tread as I'm having these exact issues. I started noticing some Sour Dub duds a few mo back, then got the gg4 and they all turned out the be ditchweed, from there noticed some og's looked like they were mislabeled as the gg4s bc of the similar growth structure but they turned out ditch as well...A few other og strains dud here and there as well, even particular branches on the plant may me good while others are ditch...So what is the overall consensus, I still plan on reading through it but is it safe to say that it's an infection or disease that is caused from BM's or RA's?
That's the thing, I'm not sure there is a consensus right now.
 
Man. You guys rock. Thanks for the passion, dedication, and killer mocroscope shots.

I believe there are quite a few things going on with differwnt members. As legalization is progressing its like a bunch of suppressed teen making it to college or their first apparment and screwing like wild animals. Fuck yeah i can buy clones. Some from here with this disease and maybe a cutting from that guy with those mites. Fuck genetics, im gonna start stockpiling wierd canabis pests.

I only say that because i already did and am now so much more aware of the pit falls of syphillis and the clap, so to speak.

Talk about knocking my D in the dirt. Errr...soil? Anyway. I let a bunch of folks trim herb in a dry trimmer at my spot. Dry leaf floating through the air. Fomites galore. "Oh sure" i says "run your crappiest buds through"

Now i know why they where crappy.

I've identified just about every fungus known to cannabis. 2 types of thrips, bulb mites, russets, broadies, cyclamen (they're a bitch), some type of non-knot root nematode, stem nematodes, and on and on. I have fully sympthised with anyone who's lost a crop or two. I've been trippin fer years over every one.
Here's another possibility to add to your list, abiotic stress factors. Mr. Sauce and Mr. squerrel sure seem to be dialed, so i'm not trying to correct or argue with those tht know there own sitch. I have learned so much from all the folks here and over at some of those other sites. They might even be a site that is all teens growing two bagseeds in there parents house, but shit, at the end of the day they came through with the first valid diy led setups. Though i beleive i saw mention of the first cobles leds here at the farm. So rock on farmers! Here's another phresh phobia!! ;).

Clopralyd

(I apologize if this is old news, i don't get out much)
 
Hehe. Whoops. Damnit Siri

Clopyralid

This possibility had me going. A local nurseryman said its been driving locals nuts. Depending on where they sourced thier compost.
 
hey guys so like the story goes... got some gg4 cuts .. rooted them... grew them out... not nowing there was such a thing as a dud.. and 3/4 of them turned out to be duds... now im like 50 days in flower i got the duds in the flower room.. and i got cuttings of the duds in veg.. some of the cuttings(3/9) show dud structure and the others look fine.... now after reading for like 2 days on this forum and another one i guess i fall into the nematode theory.. so my question is .. what should i do ??
im already of the opinion that i need to get rid of the glue.. so the 1 good one and the 3 shit ones in flower along with all 9 of the veg plants are getting thrown out tonight.. but what about everything else?? i have 12 other plants that were vegging with the gg4's that i was about to put in .. should i still put those in?? what about the genetics that i have had vegging in the same room ?? i really dont want to lose everything but if i try and save some of it am i risking contaminating everything else??? i just popped a bunch of new beans that are like 2 inch's tall .. they are outside the veg room ... .. if it was you guys what would you do??

i saw that chitosan might help me out ... is there anything more about that?? the discussion seems to have kinda died off without a real answer as to what to do if this happens to you... anyways .. thanks for any further input guys.
 
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I grew out 2 different cuts of glue..one directly from hammerhead. They both dudded after 1 run. She has a weak root system. Nothing else was affected, but after reading about other folks and their problems with glue..I was careful to clone her in her own dome away from my other genetics. That being said, the most common notion is that she had broad mites or russet mites at one point and that's why she duds sometimes. I'm not positive on that. As hammerhead spoke that all dudded clones were replaced with good cuts. If you can't get her to perform in your room..I would just ditch the cut..lots better around than her imho
 
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I would like an experienced "Dudd master's" take on this

this is a GG4 s1

in veg she stinks to high heaven like armpits and garlic (chem sis leaning)
she also exibits purpling of the stems and twisted leaves

I put a clone in flower and after 2 weeks she has stretched 14" completely greened up and has lost all smell....literally if you rub her stem there is nothing at all ....not even a basic cannabis plant smell

I crushed up a leaf and it smelled like spinach so much so that I asked my wife to "smell this dank" and cupped my had like I was holding a nug......she says " that aint dank.....that is the hydro spinach you are growing in the dwc"

the bud sites are beginning to look real ffosty for only having a few pistil but the lack of smell is alarming
but there is no spindly lateral growth and witches broom growth ( extreme tight node spacing)
just greened up and the lack of smell is kinda alarming

any thoughts I would appreciate
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
 
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Not a dud-master, but internodal spacing is pretty sucky.

I am coming to wonder if this just happens to be a phenotype of GG. I've seen loads of cuts go out of them and this thread seems to always revolve around that strain.
 
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Not a dud-master, but internodal spacing is pretty sucky.

I am coming to wonder if this just happens to be a phenotype of GG. I've seen loads of cuts go out of them and this thread seems to always revolve around that strain.
yeah it is odd
I flipped to flower and it did nothing for almost 2 weeks
then it shot up like a rocket 14" in about 3-4 days

and the stretch so fast gave it no time to stack

and it was hella stinkin when I flipped to flower
leaves were green but had the purpling on stems and a great aroma
she then greened up/shot up/and I guess took a shower and scrubbed the terps away
 
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I've long wondered when we would see something like what happened to the tulip market in cannabis.
https://www.damninteresting.com/nugget/the-dutch-tulip-bubble-of-1637/

With what I see in cannabis seed pricing and this problem specifically and all the apparent pollen chucking in progress it would seem inevitable. I think land-race seed banks would be a good idea.
I agree
I usually actually run landrace
but Inwas gifted the S1 beans and had to run them
I ran them last year and kept the best
she was awesome then kept her as a mom and took some cuts which looked and smelled exactly the same...into the bloom and ..........head scratcher
I think it is hormonal in nature
something flips and shuts down certain traits
just a guess but it really seems that way
 
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All other things being equal - I assume you changed nothing else.

The greening you mention and growth burst almost smells like early symptoms of too plentiful N somehow. As a last check before culling I think I might look at PH or something if off a common reservoir. I guess I try to eliminate everything else before I try to draw conclusions. I find much benefit in reflection after due diligence.
 
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All other things being equal - I assume you changed nothing else.

The greening you mention and growth burst almost smells like early symptoms of too plentiful N somehow.
no I feed the same from seed to chop
1.4 ec
always the same...same nutes same ec same ph...always
same coco
 
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Capture runoff from that container to see what it might show. If it is not odd or somehow different from the others, unless there are others that disagree ( there be much more experience elsewhere ) I would conclude this is a phenotype expression and undesirable to propagate further.
 
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Thanks for your feedback bro!

Oh the one on the left is the healthy ( non dudding) plant. I have never ran the gg4 without any twisting of the leaves at some point of the grow. Have u ran the gg4 before Wisher619?
I have read that that is a classic trait in the gg4. Just something I've read a couple times and seen on the inter webs.
 
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So I would like to ask the community this question
Have you ever grown a GG4 or any other strain for that matter and the plant had no terpene production
as in the plant is super frosty and really sticky and greasy but carries no smell literally no smell at all
and the leaves when crushed smell like leafy greens....Spinach/Mustard Greens

I am experiencing this with a GG4 s1

the original mom smelled like Garlic/Skunk/Musk/Kush
I took clones to reset her
once the mom was reset I cloned and am now flowering
it literally looks like a different plant
completely different growth structure/leaf pattern/No terpene production/100x frostier than the original mom

This is baffeling me
any info would be great....from someone whom may have experienced this

by the way....I am NOT experiencing any lateral branching/horizontal growth/Witch brooming
growth is extreme horizontal growth ( no topping the lowest branches top out almost even with main cola)
super sturdy structure (but brittle no bending just snapping)
any new info would be great
 

Capulator

likes to smell trees.
Supporter
6,091
313
It's been a long time since I originally posted in this thread. I have spent the past couple nights reading the entire thing.

2 years ago I received a cut from Canada that brought "duds" to my garden. I had GG4 a year before this and many other cuts and NEVER had a problem until this shitty cut made it's way in. I had never grown this particular strain, and it was a real bitch to root and grew like shit. I finally got a tester in to a bed. Well, that plant was a dud and in that same bed there were 7 other plants. Two of them had branches that dudded. Figured it was some weird random shit. Like an idiot I took soil from those beds and potted up other plants, that eventually found their way to other beds... and pretty soon it was a plant here, a plant there, a half a bed here, a full bed there...

I think it is important to note that a lot of people in this thread think they have duds, but they do not.

Dud symptoms are:

-Brittle stems (easiest way to identify-Shorter node spacing
-smaller fan leaves
-lateral branching
-Terrible trich production on fluffier, hairier buds

Variegation is not really a symptom of "dud", neither is leaf twisting, or crispy leaves, or nutrient deficiencies...

In my opinion, the culprit is stem nematodes. I successfully identified them in my garden thanks to people like @whatthe215, except I could not find them with his method. I instead used a pair of vice grips to crush a section of trunk while dripping a little water over the crushed part and on to a slide. This is a much better way to find them.

Here is a video I made of them:


After identifying them, I purchased a professional steamer (didn't work) and ultimately a large water heater to soak the soil with 160* water between runs (worked like a charm). I also added chitosan at 1/2 gram per gallon weekly, and lots of foliar and root pack.

Hot water fucks them up bigtime. I no longer have dud plants.

High temps in the room will also cause dudded flowers, especially on OG's. I think that if you see dudded flowers, try dropping temps to 71-74 for the whole grow and see if the strain still duds out... Dudded flowers are not the same as dudded plants. Dudded plants can be saved if you always take a healthy top for a cut, and continue to cull duds (you will become an expert at identifying them) and take healthy tops for a good long while. IME the nematodes have a hard time getting all the way to the tops. It really is a race against time though. You have to pull a cut before the plant is a full blown dud. Once it is full blown just toss it. I have cloned out of dudded FPOG, GG4, white bubba, Jew Gold, Wifi 43... so it is possible.

I now have a dud free operation and have had several successful runs of nortorious dudders (gg4, Jew Gold, etc). Be diligent and you can beat it. I have had it all, and not once have I scrapped a whole grow. Everything can be beaten, and kept away with a good IPM strategy.

Peace out and happy growing,

Cap
 
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It's been a long time since I originally posted in this thread. I have spent the past couple nights reading the entire thing.

2 years ago I received a cut from Canada that brought "duds" to my garden. I had GG4 a year before this and many other cuts and NEVER had a problem until this shitty cut made it's way in. I had never grown this particular strain, and it was a real bitch to root and grew like shit. I finally got a tester in to a bed. Well, that plant was a dud and in that same bed there were 7 other plants. Two of them had branches that dudded. Figured it was some weird random shit. Like an idiot I took soil from those beds and potted up other plants, that eventually found their way to other beds... and pretty soon it was a plant here, a plant there, a half a bed here, a full bed there...

I think it is important to note that a lot of people in this thread think they have duds, but they do not.

Dud symptoms are:

-Brittle stems (easiest way to identify-Shorter node spacing
-smaller fan leaves
-lateral branching
-Terrible trich production on fluffier, hairier buds

Variegation is not really a symptom of "dud", neither is leaf twisting, or crispy leaves, or nutrient deficiencies...

In my opinion, the culprit is stem nematodes. I successfully identified them in my garden thanks to people like @whatthe215, except I could not find them with his method. I instead used a pair of vice grips to crush a section of trunk while dripping a little water over the crushed part and on to a slide. This is a much better way to find them.

Here is a video I made of them:


After identifying them, I purchased a professional steamer (didn't work) and ultimately a large water heater to soak the soil with 160* water between runs (worked like a charm). I also added chitosan at 1/2 gram per gallon weekly, and lots of foliar and root pack.

Hot water fucks them up bigtime. I no longer have dud plants.

High temps in the room will also cause dudded flowers, especially on OG's. I think that if you see dudded flowers, try dropping temps to 71-74 for the whole grow and see if the strain still duds out... Dudded flowers are not the same as dudded plants. Dudded plants can be saved if you always take a healthy top for a cut, and continue to cull duds (you will become an expert at identifying them) and take healthy tops for a good long while. IME the nematodes have a hard time getting all the way to the tops. It really is a race against time though. You have to pull a cut before the plant is a full blown dud. Once it is full blown just toss it. I have cloned out of dudded FPOG, GG4, white bubba, Jew Gold, Wifi 43... so it is possible.

I now have a dud free operation and have had several successful runs of nortorious dudders (gg4, Jew Gold, etc). Be diligent and you can beat it. I have had it all, and not once have I scrapped a whole grow. Everything can be beaten, and kept away with a good IPM strategy.

Peace out and happy growing,

Cap
Thanks Cap for the info. Where did you source the chitosan. Thanks.
 
Happy 420 everyone.. I think I got the virus.. purple stressed stems stunted plants mosaic viruse pattern half yellow and hooked leaves spots on leaves resemble cal mad def, , Got a GG4 a year ago and all yields dropped 50 % Now BB of 20 years AK of 10 years now Infected they all have to go. Not going to put up with this . here is a link with what my leaves look like.
http://www.ilovegrowinginvalid.com/tobacco-mosaic-virus-marijuana/
 
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sadly i'm also feeling like a member of the club here. have had GG since late '14, it was a stellar & near automatic performer for a year and a half. after going to fully sealed rooms, i had a few whoppers with GG, and then things started going down hill. i had several monocrops that were utter failures. i have some other strains going that now put the glue to shame.

-environmental factors, other than maybe too high of co2/co2 bubbling into rootzone, are all in check.
-had 'regular' spider mites in the past, eradicated with the strong stuff. still do a round of sprays every transplant.
-have not identified/seen any broads etc. no stippling on any leaves. entirely possible that i've had them.

GG symptoms:

-i've got larfy buds that won't dense up
-buds that look like re-veg/foxtailing despite other strains in the same room/system coming out normal,
-whole upper canopy bleaches/foxtails with GG but didn't do that before
-structure of the plant seems to still be the same, although lacking in vigor in veg. still explosive stretcher & overgrower in the flower room. leaves aren't as big as i remember though.
-no more real smell/taste although it's still got some potency, thankfully
-looks great until around 40 days after flip. except, then i remember that it looked like i could harvest it at 40 days when i first got it. co2 and the massive stretch it causes actually seems to delay my harvests vs. before.
-no real swelling of the calyxes, even after 70+ days
-finished product no longer has a lime green or blonde crystal look to it. trichomes are often just stalks without the head.
-grows some lower buds not even worth trimming now. in the beginning all lowers would turn out relatively solid, swollen & frosty.
-yield has collapsed.
-other strains doing better but after a long sustained general upward trend of quality & quantity of harvest, have had 3 out of 4 down rounds.

i had a random branch end up falling into a bucket of water off of a GG trim recently. the next day, when i found it, i was taken aback; it had swollen up and looked like it did when i first was cropping GG. of course, when dried, back to airbud. i was considering & going over so many things but ultimately, it's gotta go.
 
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