Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

GrowGod

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Happy 420 everyone.. I think I got the virus.. purple stressed stems stunted plants mosaic viruse pattern half yellow and hooked leaves spots on leaves resemble cal mad def, , Got a GG4 a year ago and all yields dropped 50 % Now BB of 20 years AK of 10 years now Infected they all have to go. Not going to put up with this . here is a link with what my leaves look like.
http://www.ilovegrowinginvalid.com/tobacco-mosaic-virus-marijuana/
You probably got a bacterial infection and over fed. Are the fungus gnats wreaking havok? Get some Atak,water with and spray with transport and I bet they snap out of it. May take a week or two but you will see improvements fast
 
What up my dud Bros. Temps 80-82 humidity 50-70. Canopy 74-77. RO, ff big bloom 1/3 strength, ff grow big 1/3 strength, call/mag 1/3, kelp me kelp you 1/3, and mendo honey every other feed for the earth juice Mycoriza. One month veg in 3 gallon grow bags. The sick ones I "double potted" them adding a gallon and a half or so of more ocean forest by cutting the bottom of the bag and setting it on top of the additional bag with soil. Growth is slow and many are droopy. You can view my grow file in the general indoor forum. The title is "my first grow in 8 years" thanks guys.
 
2,359
263
Time 03:33, 14 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

stonerg This is not an exact science put three gardeners together and they will all disagree
on points. Here is one:- blueberry out of fifteen different females grown by me the finish
time was 7.5 to 10 weeks the bulk at 9 weeks. Part of this is my concept of what a
finished plant is and part the particular environment I grow in. I have made hundreds of
crosses and grown them out and I still occasionally get taken by surprise. But would go
with Vic that the finish time of a cross generally falls between the two parent lines but not
invariably. If you have any equatorial or tropical in the cross sometimes the combination
gives you a much longer finish time than either of the parents. I think the general rule will
apply to you!

Trelway alternate phyllotaxy is where the leaves start to come alternately on the main stem
and side branches as the plant reaches adulthood and alternate branching, the branches
that grow out from these alternate leaf nodes.As far as cuttings are concerned it is
worth keeping a couple of each plant some of my best yielders started with slightly
distorted leaves and some discolouration.

Vic I now have a suspicion that it is a virus carried through the seed that causes this
problem have you seen this mentioned anywhere else? I know that it is not supposed to be
possible with seed but I managed to transmit the prob to another type of mum in a stoned
aberration of forgetting to sterilise my snips just once between mums!!!!
All the best Ot1
 
2,359
263
Time 07:55, 14 Feb 1999
From Vic High

Treleway - Hey I think this is what OT is saying but I haven't had my morning coffee and
my head is a little too foggy to understand him clearly. Basically I just go by leaf pattern.
Plant density (how close they are) can greatly effect the production of side branches. Also
some strains are more inclined to produce side branches than others.

Ot1 - speaking of being confused, I really didn't quiet get what you were saying about you
seed transmitted viruses. Are you referring to a past conversation that I slightly recall?
Anyway, its been a while since I really looked into plant pathology in detail but I do recall
that this would definately be a rare and unfortunate situation. Want me to dig through
some of the literature here and see what I can come up with? I'll need more info though.

As for blueberry flowering times, the source of the seed is also a big factor. Of my three
main sources, they are all different with different flowering times. The one I'm growing
now from Bubbi (Sag via ncga) are the most vigourous of the lot. They are all green
stemmed except one and they look like they will be taking the 9-10 weeks to flower. But I
agree, three different growers will often get three different results. Flowering times can
only be taken as a relative number to be used as a guideline and to compare with other
strains.
 
2,359
263
Time 14:01, 14 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

Vic in the past we discussed the reason for the colour break and distorted leaves. Your
suggestion was that it was still the effect of colchicine treatment. I thought it might be a
natural sport with a colour break as with variegated ivy or fuchsias. I have always
believed that viruses cant be transmitted via seed the same as they aren't present in the
meristem tip. What I have found is thatthe leaf distortion and leaf mottling can be
transmitted via sap on the snips to another variety to both the mum and some of the
cuttings. To me this seems like a virus I fortunately have a back up mum, also it doesn't
seem to effect the vigour of the recipient up to now, but who knows long term. I asked a
disease expert from the royal horticultural society and apart from fudging a bit they didn't
seem to know if transmission was possible through seed. I thought that with your
background you may have seen a reference somewhere. I now think it is a distinct
possibility, it could be like the tulip virus. Thought you might be interested anyhow.

All the best Ot1.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Time 16:57, 14 Feb 1999
From occam

Hi oldtimer1, sorry to break in, but here's an excerpt from "Plant Propagation for Nursery
Growers" by Bruce Macdonald, pg. 6,: "...In many species, there is far less risk of virus
transmission from one generation to the next with seed propagation. Some exceptions
occur in the Rosaceae where Prunus avium (Mazzard) is known to transmit up to six
viruses by seed, e.g., Plum Ring Spot and Cherry Mosaic Viruses."
This suggests that your idea is at least possible. Hope this helps.
 
2,359
263
Time 17:29, 14 Feb 1999
From Vic High

OT1 - that is a strange one. We must be talking about different leaf deformities as mine
don't seem to be transmitted through plant sap. I don't follow the cleanest of procedures
and have never sterilized my cloning scissors. I think Jay has witnessed my rough
techniques, haha.

Plants that start out mottled often out grow it and clone lines that started clear of it have
never developed the trait. I originally considered it was the result of excess inbreeding or
colchicine treatment, with colchicine treatment being the most likely. Now I'm not so
sure.

My current guess is that my mottling is the result of a recessive detrimental mutation
(natural sport as you've said). I've since been able to pretty much remove it from my test
lines by selecting against it within 2 generations. I've also noticed that the other two
versions of blueberry that I have are more vigorous and are void of the deformities. From
what I've since learned of DJ Short's breeding conditions, excessive inbreeding seems
very likely.

As for your situation, I've sifted through the literature I have on hand and can't think what
it would be. Maybe by coincidence you picked up a virus that attacked the mottled plants
first because of their reduced vigour?

I used to grow several varieties of Abutilon sp.(flowering maple) One of them was a
salmon orange variety with mottled variegated leaves. It was more petite and slow
growing than the other varieties. My horticultural friends figured the mottling was caused
by a virus. It never did transfer to the other varieties through my sloppy cloning practices
come to think of it. It was probably a genetic disorder as well.

I hope you get your's figured out, viruses are not fun. Can you remove the infected
portion of your previously clear mom? Or take clones from uninfected portions? It would
be a shame to loose another clone line.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Time 06:11, 15 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

occam Thanks that was just what I needed to know!!! You didn't interrupt, this is an open
page and thats what its for, information exchange!!! So thanks again! Vic no I don't think
its likely to have been that. It is only apparent on the Blueberry when under low light
conditions as soon as it has enough light to make some serious growth it disappears
completely. The same is true with the infected cuts. I have destroyed the infected mum
and her backup is fine. Even if you don't believe this is true keep it in mind for future
reference. Used to have a similar Abutilon with two colour breaks of yellow and cream
blotches, with nice pale orange pendulous flowers strange that, the borg got it!

All the best Ot1.
 
772
143
Time 03:33, 14 Feb 1999
From oldtimer1

stonerg This is not an exact science put three gardeners together and they will all disagree
on points. Here is one:- blueberry out of fifteen different females grown by me the finish
time was 7.5 to 10 weeks the bulk at 9 weeks. Part of this is my concept of what a
finished plant is and part the particular environment I grow in. I have made hundreds of
crosses and grown them out and I still occasionally get taken by surprise. But would go
with Vic that the finish time of a cross generally falls between the two parent lines but not
invariably. If you have any equatorial or tropical in the cross sometimes the combination
gives you a much longer finish time than either of the parents. I think the general rule will
apply to you!

Trelway alternate phyllotaxy is where the leaves start to come alternately on the main stem
and side branches as the plant reaches adulthood and alternate branching, the branches
that grow out from these alternate leaf nodes.As far as cuttings are concerned it is
worth keeping a couple of each plant some of my best yielders started with slightly
distorted leaves and some discolouration.

Vic I now have a suspicion that it is a virus carried through the seed that causes this
problem have you seen this mentioned anywhere else? I know that it is not supposed to be
possible with seed but I managed to transmit the prob to another type of mum in a stoned
aberration of forgetting to sterilise my snips just once between mums!!!!
All the best Ot1
I remember this exact post back in the day. Overgrow right? And dudding can most certainly be passed to seed. I had so called Cold Creek Kush from THSeeds d the dud thing from a seed run. Years ago. And I too have grown several different sources of GG#4 cut and have experienced the dud syndrome. Mystery to me. Alls I know is I don't grow Glue anymore. Not kidding. So many others to play with. I do have a great cut of Diamond Og that I hope doesnt do this shit. The mother is getting purple at the top. Slower (but not super slow) to for the 3 gallon pot of coco to dry out compared to the rest of my moms. But the cuts root FAST and vigourous. I dont know. Its frikin fire and I want it to stay that way. Just read this whole frikin thread damn near and its scary. Some say nematodes. Some say fusarium or pythium. Some say broad or russets. Some say tmv. Some even say simple ass fungus frikin gnats..Wtf? Iam as baffled as all of you. Seems to affect og and/or sour dubb based gear. Does anyone experience dudding on no og/lanky kush gear? Like sativa stuff? Dream or off the wall under the radar sattys? Just the Glue/og based shit. Its like riding the crest of a wave or razors edge between pure hell flame og based fire and it all crashing and going into hemp mode - FAST. Not even a middle ground. And its depressing for me and my patients. But anyways...I remember Oldtimer and Vic High back in the day talking about this "dudding" phenomenon before ANYONE called it dudding. Scary as fuk.
 
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I wish we could take a poll: How many people with duded plants smoke or have smoked cigarettes? Does anyone in your house smoke cigarettes? Do any workers you employ to work on the garden smoke cigarettes? Did the person who sold the clone smoke cigarettes? Did the person who sold that person the clone smoke cigarettes?

Seeing the problem with TMV is that most cigs are infected with it; and tobacco has been modified for resistance to TMV but it still caries the disease and smoking it or handling it at all spreads that onto your person/clothes and therefore your plants (eventually).
 

GrowGod

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I wish we could take a poll: How many people with duded plants smoke or have smoked cigarettes? Does anyone in your house smoke cigarettes? Do any workers you employ to work on the garden smoke cigarettes? Did the person who sold the clone smoke cigarettes? Did the person who sold that person the clone smoke cigarettes?

Seeing the problem with TMV is that most cigs are infected with it; and tobacco has been modified for resistance to TMV but it still caries the disease and smoking it or handling it at all spreads that onto your person/clothes and therefore your plants (eventually).
Your just paranoid and over thinking this lol
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunn-hemp_mosaic_virus this virus does infect hemp and cannabis as well and is related to mosaic.
I had a long talk with a plant pathologist the other day and she believes that tmv has different forms and have morphed to be able to infect cannabis. A deep rna sequencing and greenhouse study needs to be preformed to know for Sure. The only problem is it would cost thousands to perform the tests. It would be invaluable to the cannabis community though.
 
I had a long talk with a plant pathologist the other day and she believes that tmv has different forms and have morphed to be able to infect cannabis. A deep rna sequencing and greenhouse study needs to be preformed to know for Sure. The only problem is it would cost thousands to perform the tests. It would be invaluable to the cannabis community though.
I suspect the RNA code can easily repeat itself in a susceptible plant and then at that time becomes the version of the virus infecting that plant. The mosaic virus is a better name for the thing, and when it attaches to cannabis it would be hemp mosaic, rather than tobacco mosaic. I am very curious how this single piece of RNA is able to replicate on so many hosts, and it would be invaluable to have this study I agree. But this begs the question, hasn't mosaic virus been studied on other hosts and therefore somewhat been proven to do this?
 
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Yep, but scientists don't have all the info on cannabis yet since it's been banned for so long. This plant don't follow all the rules.

A deep rna sequencing and greenhouse study needs to be preformed to know for Sure. The only problem is it would cost thousands to perform the tests. It would be invaluable to the cannabis community though.
I'll donate $20, anyone else in? Maybe we can get some grower-funded research done?
 
Yep, but scientists don't have all the info on cannabis yet since it's been banned for so long. This plant don't follow all the rules.


I'll donate $20, anyone else in? Maybe we can get some grower-funded research done?
That' not a bad idea. Just another 9,980 to go! Im sure research like this will get better and better as time goes on. Im from washington and i could only find one place in cali to even accept my cannabis tissues. They were a big help though!
 
Hello All,
New to the boards, but long time grower.
I wanted to follow up and see if there has been anymore findings or breakthrough discoveries to the BYDV. We are having issues with plants that are exhibiting TMV signs, but our tests are coming up negative. In our facility we have a pretty substantial Rice root aphid issue. We've tried it all! With proper regulations on us we can only do so much, so we have to learn how to live with and control the populations. But I'm concerned we will loose our coveted strains to a virus. Any updates on findings or research would be awesome.
Thank everyone for the great thread.
 
772
143
I had a long talk with a plant pathologist the other day and she believes that tmv has different forms and have morphed to be able to infect cannabis. A deep rna sequencing and greenhouse study needs to be preformed to know for Sure. The only problem is it would cost thousands to perform the tests. It would be invaluable to the cannabis community though.
Iam suprised that with big legal grows in the states that allow it that this hasnt been done yet. Or maybe it has and the ops arent making the findings public to squash competition? And let the mysterious "dudding syndrome" continue its wallet draining course. Hell..I dont know.
 

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