Finally! An organic pH up--Humax

[Seamaiden]

I frequently see threads from people looking for an organic solution to pH adjustment. Very often we find ourselves unwillingly relegated to using non-organic pH adjusters. I believe that in the case of adjusting pH up, this is the case no more, and you don't have to use baking soda to do it!

Humax, the liquid.

Two nights ago I decided some of my girls could use the benefits of a little additional humic acid with the particular mix I was giving them. Since it was a forethought instead of an afterthought, I put the Humax into the RO/DI water first.

The pH rose so quickly my pen almost flew outta the water! 1 tablespoon of Humax in 2 gallons of water pegged the pH at 10, and kept it there until the rest of the nutes were added. It kept the pH high, and for the first time ever I had to use pH Down in a batch of nutes mixed in pure RO/DI water.

There you have it. Organic, and it's not sodium bicarbonate.

 

[noone88]

You should be using a KOH as a pH up. Using potassium hydroxide will free up a potassium molecule, which our plants can use.

If, for some reason, you're using a sodium bicarbonate product as pH up, you're releasing a Sodium molecule into solution. Too much Na will lock out other vital nutrients.

 

[Seamaiden]

I'm not (in a plant scenario, aquatics are another thing), but others do ask the question. What if it's something you're using anyway? Seems to me, since I'm using the Humax anyway, I can skip adding something else (a pH adjuster) and simply use that to the degree it shifts pH for me. No?

 

[saltr]

I've always used Silica Blast for pH up and molasses for down, but thanks for the tip!

 

[Seamaiden]

Molasses to bring pH down? Does it keep it shifted down, or does it bounce? How much molasses for what kind of parameters? Tell more!

 

[into the light]

I also use ProTect silica for my UP.Haven't found a reliable DOWN yet.
Earth Juice Catalyst takes it down pretty good but not always. I will try molasses and then maybe with Catalyst as well....
Thanks ITL

 

[Doobie Nyce]

you can use fox farms big bloom liquid as a ph-up that is micro-life friendly! Using baking soda would fry your little guys...

 

[Seamaiden]

I tested the Humax, it's a pH of 12. SilicaBlast (don't know about the Protekt, but I believe UCDavis uses that product) is also good for driving pH up, but I've found it's not as strong, mine is not an organic product, and I don't always want to use that particular product.

I've been using AN pH Up, which takes mere drops it's so concentrated, but as I outlined above I kind of discovered that the Humax I was adding already could do the job for me.

Humax = humic acid = ironic.
Therefore, Humax = irony.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I bought molasses at a feed lot that was 4.3 pH for $22/5 gal. It will though cause your pH to be higher the next day. I believe it causes your benis to eat more changeing your nute makeup. Using P silicate to raise your pH occasionally is fine but will overload your plants if used regularly and is also hard to flush. JK

 

[Seamaiden]

D'oh! Distraction makes me say stupid things.

 

[saltr]

JK was dead on (again). I only use the molasses in hand water, but it would definitely raise pH if left in a rez for a day. I also use Earth Juice's Microblast for pH down.

I've never heard of overloading on potassium silicate, but JK's never led me down the wrong path so I'm definitely listening. I have also been meaning to grab some humic/fulvic and was going to go with Ful-Power (don't know it's pH), but may go with the Humax instead if I can use that for my pH-up. Seamaiden, any reason you run humic instead of fulvic? Based on the distinction between the two compounds, I'd guess that the fulvic wouldn't have the same pH-up effects.

 

[Seamaiden]

I can't find fulvic! Looked for it at my favorite organic supplier's, they usually have the more hard-to-find stuff, but no go. Nothing at the hydros I've hit, either.

And I've run humic (MicroHume, if you get that, dry micronized powder, get something like SM-90 to get it to go into solution, otherwise you're gonna be spending the rest of your life trying to get a hydrophobic powder to mix into the water) and know that I like how it lets me use a little bit less of the other stuff.

I thought fulvic acid was either derived from, or closely associated (in situ?) with leonardite sources of humic acid. My impression has been that it's one of the compounds that comprises humic acids. Don't hold me to that, though.

 

[saltr]

I know bioag.com carries the ful-power if you're willing to ship it; luckily, my local store keeps it stocked on the DL. My understanding of humic v. fulvic is that you take leonardite sol in a NaOH or KOH solution, hit it with HCl, and the humic acid precipitates out while the fulvic stays in solution. Due to it's smaller molecular weight, many believe that fulvic acid is more efficient to use in agricultural applications. So, I'm trying to stay with my Ful-Power plans, but may need to grab some humic as well if the fulvic can't be used as pH-up, especially late in flower when I'm not going to use the silica.

Almost forgot, here's a great resource regarding humates: .

 

[dican01]

here is what is use. ancient amber by roots organics. derived from premium grade ancient leonardite.

"using a unique extraction method, our product has been targeted for low molecular weight, which increases bio-availability and effectiveness. fulvic acids are extremely effective chelating agents, facilitating the uptake of macro and micro nutrients, increasing resistance to stress, and boosting overall vigor, thereby producing larger, better quality harvests."

 

[saltr]

Not to steal Seamaiden's thread or anything, but... dican01, do you know how the Ancient Amber affects pH?

 

[leadsled]

fyi, the bioag fulpower is actually fulvic. In california for some reason they have to label it as humic. (something about not being able to sell fulvic in california if I recall correctly?)

Seamaiden, that is probably why you do not see fulvic on the shelves.

BioAG, is actually golden fulvic :) few other product are the same way for labeling reasons. Can get it on ebay and few out of state online stores.

Not sure how much the humax costs, but I been saving $$ using the humic12. Commercial product is about $30.00 per gallon.

I noticed age old organics slaps a label on the bottle and re-sells it as there humic product.


In my experience, Humic raises ph and fulvics lower it. I like to use humic/ fulvic and silica so they buffer to the proper ph.

Mainly like to use the fulvic as foliar. Goes alot further that way and the plants love it.

EDIT: re-checked my bottle. Confised the root organics with the flavor fulv or now named flavorful by HN. Have not used not ancient amber by root.

But I find the fulvic (usually gold in color) lowers ph.


NOt to hijack
I also like to hear more about overloading with Silica. JK what time you suggest stopping silica?

 

[dican01]

I know bioag.com carries the ful-power if you're willing to ship it; luckily, my local store keeps it stocked on the DL. My understanding of humic v. fulvic is that you take leonardite sol in a NaOH or KOH solution, hit it with HCl, and the humic acid precipitates out while the fulvic stays in solution. Due to it's smaller molecular weight, many believe that fulvic acid is more efficient to use in agricultural applications. So, I'm trying to stay with my Ful-Power plans, but may need to grab some humic as well if the fulvic can't be used as pH-up, especially late in flower when I'm not going to use the silica.

Almost forgot, here's a great resource regarding humates: .......

Not to steal Seamaiden's thread or anything, but... dican01, do you know how the Ancient Amber affects pH?

that is also my understanding of humic/fulvic acids. i know that there is some humic acid in ancient amber as well, but not much. ancient amber is a pretty clear liquid as opposed to the darker brown humic acids.
i know that it helps to buffer the ph and also helps nutrients become available no matter what the ph. i don't use a ph pen anymore so i couldn't give you any actual numbers.
hope that helps. sorry i couldn't give you more info.
another humic/fulvic acid link...
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xdpy/kb/humic-fulvic-acid.html

 

[dican01]

Mainly like to use the fulvic as foliar. Goes alot further that way and the plants love it.

i love fulvic as a foliar also. they really do love the stuff.

 

[leadsled]

found my bookmark when this was discussed previously (on another site)

Basically Cali ,and from what I understand OR followed suit, will not allow products on the shelf with a claim of fulvic acid. This is in part because the powers to be feel there is no acceptable test for fulvic acid. I'm sure this will change in a few years and a few groups working behind the scenes as a consortium to get things cleaned up. There is a test many consider the best but not but not accepted across the board. I talked to an ag testing lab in Cali that's been around for like 40 years and they will test for humics and told me if I could supply them with a solid test for fulvics they'd be all ears.

As for Diamond Nectar forget that stuff. The best fulvic product out there is BioAg's Full Power Humic. Disregard the 'Humic' part on the label cause it's loaded with fulvic. Buy some DN and some FPH and take a look at the color of each...lol. You'll never touch DN again! Another thing is BioAg is the only company using a slow cold bacterial fermentation process to make the product. Virtually everyone else uses and alkali/acid extraction process which dramatically denatures the acids. What you are actually getting are humic and fulvic salts and not humic and fulvic acids. There's a shitload of humic/fulvic powder that comes in from China and very cheap but the stuff is crap. BioAg also makes a powder humic product but not from an alkali/acid extraction or bacterial ferment process . Another thing to keep in mind about powders is if high heat is used in the drying, which most probably due because it is simple and inexpensive, the fulvic acids especially will agglomerate and pretty much become useless. Stick with products from BioAg. For their powder look at TM-7.

 

[leadsled]

i love fulvic as a foliar also. they really do love the stuff.

Agreed 200%, I think ever farmer should know about that fulvic foliar, I wish I knew sooner.

A guy that is almost 90 turned me on to it. I wish I could explain it like he did. Bitter old man but knows his stuff.