from seed in peat pellets, stunted growth

[mekannic]

got a problem i have never encountered. have been searching the forums and can't find the answer and it is kinda urgent. my baby seedling has stunted.:(

i started from seed in peat pellets in the OTC pellet domes. no nutes. after sprouting and the first true leaves showed and (hopefully) she was about two inches i put her in a pot with more peat moss. i didn't realize the moss was miracle gro and had some added nutes for some stupid reason (i bought it for venus fly traps, not supposed to have ANY nutes EVER).

after transplanting she is very yellow, the stem has turned from white to red, and she has stunted. hasn't grown a millimeter since. even under 24 hr light.

what can i do to save her?

can i rinse the nutes from the peat moss and replant her is some of that? i can't afford another trip for something that doesn't have nutes until tuesday and she has already been 3 days stunted like this and i am afraid she doesn't have long to survive if i don't remedy the situation fast.

i am thinking it is because she was just a baby seedling and couldn't handle the nutes, i have never seen this exact problem and don't know what i did or how to fix it. don't want to stress her more by transplanting over and over until i have some kind of idea of what to do.

please help!!

 

[mekannic]

next pic. and after posting and looking at these pics closely, some of the red does seem to be going away just a little near her top. she was completely red from the dirt all the way to her cotyledons. and maybe i am imagining it, but she seems a tiny bit greener, less bright yellow than before, but still stunted. she sprouted on day 3 in the dirt, on day 4 she looked about like this but with better color, more green and white stem, absolutely no red at all. end of day 4 she looked almost exactly like this, turned yellow and red and she is now on day 7 and in 3 days hasn't really changed a bit except for what i may be noticing now in these pics or maybe i am just wanting it so bad i am making myself hallucinate it into existence.

anyway, here is the second pic if anybody can help or suggest anything at all.

thanks.

 

[geologic]

just a little nervous about making clones (90-100% humidity?) ...

Did you check the Infirmary???
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/forums/cannabis-infirmary.57/

 

[mekannic]

i am digging through the dirt in the infirmary right now. had to pause for a slight update.

out of sheer desperation and urgency etc i went ahead and rinsed a new pot of peat for around ten minutes with hot water (hopefully my chemistry knowledge translates and nutes are more soluble in hot water) and let drain for a while and flushed a little with distilled water. carefully dug the peat pellet out of the other pot and transplanted. less than a half hour later i am already seeing the red drain from the stem and i think i see a greener color of yellow to the leaves. i guess we will see in a couple days if she takes off again.

is the red draining from the stem a good thing? i hope, or did i make it worse? i have never seen red stems on my seedlings before. ever.

you can tell by comparing the pics the red is leaving.

 

[mekannic]

this is a pic of the label. really low nute content seems like to me. everything under two tenths of a percent and some of that is slow release.

even after finding out it had nute in it i didn't think it was enough to shock a baby seedling like it must have. maybe i got an off batch.

i don't know, does anybody?

that spm hard to read number is 98.68%

 

[mekannic]

can i move this thread to the cannabis infirmary forum?

 

[Camdawg]

What's your ph? Also temps?

 

[mekannic]

it's in soil. peat rather. and i don't have a ph meter for soil. i have been using distilled water and i think it is a little high. i was told to ph the plain water to 6.3 and wait til the plant really needs water then flood it and catch some drain and ph that and if it was below 5.5 i need to adjust next time.

the temps have been between 75 and 83 but i mover her outside for a little while and it may have gotten a little above 85 or so.

i have moved her inside to control the temps 100% trying to keep it just below 80 for now. and i have been afraid that i was overwatering so i haven't watered today although the repot was very moist. i am constantly checking and gonna wait til she's really thirsty then do the thing above.

immediately after repot i noticed a little difference and then again after moving her back inside (been moving her in and out to take advantage of the sun but keep her on 24 hour light) i noticed another slight improvement in color. i am keeping a constant eye on her. i have five seeds in dirt and i think she is the only one that is gonna pop. i don't have many left. i need to save her. this was one of only two lil bastard seeds i got from an anonymous donor on another board. it is quite special to me.

hope this helps you help me.

thanks.

 

[Seamaiden]

got a problem i have never encountered. have been searching the forums and can't find the answer and it is kinda urgent. my baby seedling has stunted.:(

i started from seed in peat pellets in the OTC pellet domes. no nutes. after sprouting and the first true leaves showed and (hopefully) she was about two inches i put her in a pot with more peat moss. i didn't realize the moss was miracle gro and had some added nutes for some stupid reason (i bought it for venus fly traps, not supposed to have ANY nutes EVER).

after transplanting she is very yellow, the stem has turned from white to red, and she has stunted. hasn't grown a millimeter since. even under 24 hr light.

what can i do to save her?

can i rinse the nutes from the peat moss and replant her is some of that? i can't afford another trip for something that doesn't have nutes until tuesday and she has already been 3 days stunted like this and i am afraid she doesn't have long to survive if i don't remedy the situation fast.

i am thinking it is because she was just a baby seedling and couldn't handle the nutes, i have never seen this exact problem and don't know what i did or how to fix it. don't want to stress her more by transplanting over and over until i have some kind of idea of what to do.

please help!!View attachment 408089

I would transplant after an experience I had this year that we're all still trying to grow out of. I think the pH is WAAAYY off and nothing will correct it until you change the soil. I damn near ruined several hundred dollars' worth of seeds by using a soil for acid-loving plants (that I've used before to good results).

First, they got very pale, then they didn't go chlorotic, they went WHITE AND PINK. I fucked with them for weeks trying to figure out what was wrong. Pulled them from their cups and photographed the shit out of the roots. Blamed the fungus gnats and declared another war, then thought I might have RAs again (except the pattern didn't fit). THEN they autoflowered (so I was at least able to yank all the males).

We're talking BOG gear, Golden Lion, Connoisseur, CBDCrew, Loran gear--some of which I've never run before (all but Loran's is new to me for the most part), but really, ALL of them autoflowering on me? That was when I knew for sure it was my husbandry and not a failing with the seeds.

I finally had no choice but to try one last thing--transplant to another soil. Now? Now those that survived... some are extremely fucked up, they look like reveg, TMV, all kinds of shit. Others look like they had a rough start and are growing through it just fine.


SO! You're mentioning peat a lot, and that's pretty acidic, so I'm thinking a transplant to a better quality soil that's better buffered is what you *must* do, ASAP. Or, you can try using some dolomite lime or baking soda--anything to drive the rhizosphere pH up (though I don't think it'll work, I think it's a stop-gap measure).

The soil I went with is Gardner & Bloome Blue Ribbon potting mix. It doesn't have to be *that* soil, but you want a good quality, whatever you get.

HTH and best of luck!

 

[ZONER]

I used jiffy peat pellets but first determined their PH, well it was 4.3. I utilized 1 cup of hard wood ash to 1 gallon of rain water, strained the wood after letting it soak for 12 hours. After that I soaked a jiffy pellet and let it sit till it absorbed the wood ash water then i squeezed out the water and it,s PH was 6.2. Now I know it's a lot of work but like Sea said good genetics are expensive and next time I am going to use the little wooden pot maker I purchased along with some good potting soil.

 

[mekannic]

i am beginning to think it is pH. i was given advice to let them get real thirsty and pH my water to 6.3, just plain distilled water at this stage. i felt the pot and it felt like it was starting to get dry last night before bed so i gave just a tiny splash of that pHd distilled and the stem reddened right back up on me. i also don't think it was as dry as i thought it was.

so it's either way too acidic or way too wet.

i have tried some soil with about the same results. it's working good for my tomatoes, cantaloupe, peppers, spearmint and rosemary.

i ain't ever had this much trouble starting from seed. i can't wait til i get something worth keeping. i'll cut my left arm off to keep a couple really good mommies.

i have been going back and forth between rain water and distilled. i have some buckets i have been filling with tap water and letting set for days before i use any of it and i haven't been using it on anything but the regular garden. all the water i got appears to pH high, maybe my pen needs a new probe or replacing altogether. i got cleaning solution, storage solution, calibration solution and i try real hard to take care of it but should distilled water pH out at basic? i thought it would be neutral or so. rain water is pHing high too. but until yesterday i hadn't done anything but check the water and nute solutions. never added anything to adjust. and when i did, it seemed to backfire.

pHuck i don't know. i don't even know how long i need to wait for signs of impovement before moving to the next attempt. i don't want to jump from one thing to another or when i do get it fixed, IF, i won't know what fixed it.

pHuck, it. i'm buying a new pH pen and recheck everything and pH the pellets and the bag of peat. guess i need a soil style pH meter too, huh?

thanks guys. here we go.

 

[Protaide]

I'm with zoner and seamaiden. That MG bag did not have lime listed. PH issue. Plant is showing several deficiencies almost assuredly PH. If using peat and no lime is in the mix; people typically recommend 1 tablespoon per gallon of media

For pH meters. don't get a soil meter it will not be accurate. Just use a digital or titration pH test and check your run-off water.

 

[mekannic]

thanks Protaide

if lime is not immediately available, can i use some of the other suggestions? like baking soda particularly, i know i have a lot of it immediately available. and i sure know lye is out of the question. those are the only two bases i know i have on hand or can get until payday.......

is a regular pool kit suitable for the titration? i think i need a new meter and i know that titration will be accurate, even i can't really screw that up. and i do have that handy. water is water right? and pH is pH.

thanks, am just waiting to water her, she's drowning for now and every time i try something i make it worse. she starts to look better, then i think i getting close to being out of the woods and every time i water her, BAM, she is gonna hate me forever and never forgive me for what i have done.

damn me.

 

[Protaide]

Correct lime is not immediately available, but as well; the acids given off by peat moss are not all released at once. So, a top dressing of lime can still provide benefit. I'm not sure I'd use baking soda as you don't really need sodium in your profile. What type of tap water do you have? Is it city or well? Well water tends to have some hardness to it without adding too much.

you can flush through any water with a higher pH really, however that will not "buffer" and prevent the pH from falling again (advantage of lime). I would possibly do a high pH flush in the 7.5-8.0 range (Yes you can use diluted lye). Make sure if you do use LYE that you let it mix for an hour and get an accurate pH to not add to much. Flush until the run-off pH comes out above 6.0. Next time you water and for a few times; make sure to check your run-off pH. Once the peat has given off all the acids, your medium pH will stabilize closer to the solution being added; minus acids produced by the plant.

For a titration based pH test, most are "in general" accurate. Be sure that the kit is not old / past expiration. Also, when looking for kits; check the color comparator for pH scales in your range. The easier the color chart is to verify; the more accurate you can test pH. For the future, it may be worthwhile to invest in a digital meter.

Sorry to hear about your issues, small plants don't have the root system nor stored nutrients to handle great shocks or changes. it does take them longer to recover, but have patience.

 

[mekannic]

i have city water with a ppm that ranges from the 80s to the 200s. i have three digital pH meters, just after all these problems i don't trust them. i also have GH's pH up and pH down as well.

can i use GH's ph up instead of lye? i would imagine that if i don't want added sodium, ie: sodium bicarbonate, then i don't want to add sodium hydroxide either do i?

that is what i was told to do before, by a nute line tech support guy. pH my distilled water to 6.3 and flush with that and test the runoff and it needs to be above 5.6

i gave her a taste of that 6.3 pHd distilled water and the stem turned red again and is slowly draining back out to a normal white color. that is when i started to doubt my pH pens accuracy. i have two hannas and one generic chinese off ebay. i have storage solution and cleaning solution for all of them, and two different calibrations solutions, high and neutral. i calibrated immediately before pHing that distilled water to 6.3.

i have digital pH pens and i attempt to take care of them, but.......

that being said, when i tried to follow through with pHing my distilled water to 6.3, i had to use pH down. that is why i think my meters have reached end of life. i am already looking at which one i want next on ebay

all of my meters have been testing my tap water and drinking water and distilled water high. i thought it was supposed to be that way. i have googled it but haven't found out yet what distilled water should test at unadulterated.

i think i will stay away from the titration kit for now because it's a pool kit and i don't really know much about what it covers etc.

i still haven't yet flushed her, i am afraid because the water i planned on using turned her stem red again and i'm worried about the true pH of that water.

i already used pH down and went too far, does using pH down to counteract pHuck it all up?

can i use the pH up to bring distilled water up and use that to flush? i was told to pH it to 6.3 but not what with. can i use distilled water at it's naturally high pH to flush?

which one would be best? i forgot to mention the pH up and pH down earlier in the thread, sorry.

i ain't done nothing yet, in a while, i think it's getting close tho'.

 

[Protaide]

*glances up at Seamaidens response and grins*

I'll try to be short and not too wordy, heh. If you have pH up and pH down; yes use them. I only chose lye out of the 2 options you gave, as you would need less total to raise pH. GH's pH up does have carbonate, which can help neutralize some of the peat acid; however it gets used quick as opposed to bicarb. So, if you keep these guys in the same medium still try and get some lime watered in soon.

For your pH meters. if you calibrate them @ 7.0 they should be fine. If you calibrate @ 7.0 and 4.0 they can't likely be more than 0.1 off anywhere in between that; so you should be good. If your super worried, use 2 for comparison.

With pH of flush water. Yes typically you would flush with a 6.3 range. I had only recommended a higher value, as your pH is probably in the upper 4's atm. By all means start with a flush of 6.3 until you get run-off. Check the pH of your run-off. If it's @ 5.0 or below, then you must counter that with a higher flush pH. If your pH comes out around 5.5, sure keep the 6.3 flush water until you hit 5.8 or so. If your pH is down @ 5 or below then (with higher pH water) I would flush until run-off is 6.0.
Since your in soil; you need to be 6.2-6.7 optimally. This will buy you time to either add lime or possibly re-pot to a soil with lime already.

 

[mekannic]

by what everybody was saying here i was kinda figuring i should pH my water a little higher. but i guess i never actually came out and asked that question.

and i just totally forgot about the pH up and down even though i just used them, and just handled them right before that message. sitting there trying to think of what i have around the house that is a base and would be suitable.

i am stressed. by this situation and not to get off topic but i cleaned out a rats nest in the garage where grannies stuff is stored and found the rats i murdered and their entire 50 pound nest including stolen screwdrivers, scissors, a ratchet, stuffed animals, sharpies and other markers, pens, pencils, dowel rods, and 10-15 pounds of encrusted urine and feces much like a chicken coop.

and my back hurts.

i am really letting this get to me. sorry.

but that last message clears it up. i will go with that and just can't wait for payday, otherwise i would be looking for lime right now. is that a wal mart or casa de pot item possibly?

anyway, thanks for that last one, it puts all the other messages together in the puzzle and i kinda see a little better now.

thanks.

 

[caregiverken]

.

and my back hurts.

i am really letting this get to me. sorry.

.

Relax man...its just a seedling..Dont you have anymore seeds?
toss that stupid thing and germ some more seeds
buy some potting soil..and just give em water..thats all you need to do

 

[mekannic]

well, not cheap ones. i got some more in peat pellets but i'm afraid they're gonna do the same thing.

i shoulda used other seeds, this one is kinda special. lil bastard from an anonymous donor. only got two seeds and they're both in peat and the second one hasn't popped.

i only got expensive seeds. and i'm waiting on some of them to pop. got some cheaper seeds in my shopping cart, just waiting on everything. wait wait wait.

all the waiting is what's making me focus on this one seedling.

it'll either live or it won't. but ima try all i can till the end.

thanks.

 

[caregiverken]

right on man..yeah..then, try to save that one..good practice!
I think the most common answer when someone has an unhappy plant is,
Flush with PHed water :)

Good luck! I hope she pulls though!

I say give it some Seagreen! seedlings love seagreen