Grow Room A/C

[KeepSimple]

Hi CJ, Thanks for starting this amazing thread. Learned quite a bit going through this post! However I have run into a dilemma... So got a question for you about wiring. Real quick first a rundown of what I'm working with:

Senville Aura 18,000 btu (picked up in Compton new for $1350)
Model/SENA-18HF

(Electrical done so far/ > = installed)
Sub panel > 20amp 240v dedicated breaker > ac/disconnect > compressor > handler

Issue..

Sensor wire.

Question..

Do I need a special sensor wire (like stat wire) or can I just use an extra run of 12g/14g from air handler "S" terminal to condenser "S" terminal?

I called senville to ask a tech guy but was only able to get a hold of a sales guy who had no clue what a sensor wire was. Unit came with installation kit that had a 13' whip of 14/3. But this only gives me my power and ground to handler. All wiring diagrams show this wire hooked up but don't mention wire type. Chinglish instructions seem to be to blame here. Any and all help appreciated. If you need pics to make a diagnosis easier if I'm being unclear let me know and I'll add one asap. Happy memorial day weekend to you, your family and all the farmers out there.

 

[KeepSimple]

Hey everyone im not sure if this has been asked yet but after ten pages of not finding my answer I figure I would just ask I am currently installing a split ac in a 15 x15 room 18000BTU from pioneer and I have found an HVAC guy I would feel comfortable letting do the service but wants a lot of cash I have searched you tube and found a few install videos but non of them fully explain how to do the vac test and fill can this be done DIY or is it absolutely recommended to have someone who knows what they are doing I have done car ac many times but this was done with a quite spendy machine do I need something similar to do my split ac? can anyone fully explain how I would do this by my self

Knowledge, Evac pump 2 or 3 stage, Gauges, flare die set, pipe bender, refrigerant ( need license to obtain), thread sealer, leak detector(don't spend $$$$ on an ac just to check it with some 99 cent Ajax solution. Techs have actual leak detectors or specialized sprays which show escaped compressed gas at extremely tiny micron levels. Most items could be purchased from harbor freight but for the cost and labor involved it makes more sense to hire a tech. IMHO. Added Perk is that it done through tech you don't void warranty. Total cost to you would be at $500-$600 from scratch anyway unless you already have tools on hand and someone willing to sell you refrigerant.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Hi CJ, Thanks for starting this amazing thread. Learned quite a bit going through this post! However I have run into a dilemma... So got a question for you about wiring. Real quick first a rundown of what I'm working with:

Senville Aura 18,000 btu (picked up in Compton new for $1350)
Model/SENA-18HF

(Electrical done so far/ > = installed)
Sub panel > 20amp 240v dedicated breaker > ac/disconnect > compressor > handler

Issue..

Sensor wire.

Question..

Do I need a special sensor wire (like stat wire) or can I just use an extra run of 12g/14g from air handler "S" terminal to condenser "S" terminal?

I called senville to ask a tech guy but was only able to get a hold of a sales guy who had no clue what a sensor wire was. Unit came with installation kit that had a 13' whip of 14/3. But this only gives me my power and ground to handler. All wiring diagrams show this wire hooked up but don't mention wire type. Chinglish instructions seem to be to blame here. Any and all help appreciated. If you need pics to make a diagnosis easier if I'm being unclear let me know and I'll add one asap. Happy memorial day weekend to you, your family and all the farmers out there.

The 14/3 cable may have a ground wire in it. Check. Definitely need 4 wires from inside to outside unit.

 

[blazer]

Installation instructions should show what field wiring is needed,should be power wire which would be two wire and ground then they usually need there comunication wires which are usually 3 or 4 wires which pass comunication and power from out door unit to indoor unit maybe put a pic of field wiring or schematic

 

[CannabisJohn]

Installation instructions should show what field wiring is needed,should be power wire which would be two wire and ground then they usually need there comunication wires which are usually 3 or 4 wires which pass comunication and power from out door unit to indoor unit maybe put a pic of field wiring or schematic

I looked up install instructions. He needs 4 wires from indoor to outdoor unit including ground. Depending on wire 14/3 wire could be 3 conductors with a ground for 4 wires total.

 

[Smokeyjojackson]

Hello John!

You helped me in the past so I am looking to you to help me figure out a couple of situations I have. Sorry for the long post.

I have a bloom room with 4x 1kw vented lights, and 2x 1kw unvented wings (6kw total). I also run a 4 burner co2 generator, and occasionally a 70 pint dehumidifier. The temps are in the upper 80's at times and when hot outside it can reach low 90's.

The room is cooled by a 24k btu Mitsubishi Mr Slim w/heat pump/inverter as it was originally designed for 4 lights. With the additional 2 lights its not quit cutting the mustard anymore and I find myself looking to add heat shields etc to my hoods to further cool the room.

Directly outside this room I have a 4kw bloom room with 2 of the lights vented but this room is not cooled and gets too hot as well. These rooms are framed into a garage with rigid insulation as the walls and ceilings.

I have the desire to add a veg area to a 10x10 space that is also in this location and would like to run between 3-4k watts in there to veg 40-50 plants in 4 gal pots. This room can be vented through the ceiling to aid in cooling but much more will be required to keep it within preferred ranges.

I have been considering upsizing my mini split as well as going to a multi zone unit w/heat pump. Two to handle the bloom room/s (one handler for each area) one to handle the veg room and one potentially for the living space.

I am completely confused on how to size a multi zone unit for a setup such as this. I know a good rule of thumb is 6000btu per 1kw but how do the multiple zones figure into things? Am I being too ambitious for my situation? Is something like this doable?


I have another 4kw room at another location which could benefit from my current 24kbtu Mr Slim so the current unit would not be going to waste but improving yet another room if I upgrade at this house.

I truly appreciate you sharing your expertise on this subject. I wouldn't be where I am now without having found your thread years ago.

Thanks

Smokey

 

[KeepSimple]

Took me a second to get back to you but my dog took on a skunk and the skunk won... Here is a picture of the wiring terminal on the indoor unit.
L1 and L2 are my hots from condenser and I have a green for ground. Also I'm not sure what the two slots on the right are for???



http://i20.invalid.com/albums/b211/indicablue/indoorunit.jpg

Here is the 14/3 wire that came with installation kit already attached and run from the condenser. I checked the wire to make sure I did not miss a 4th sensor wire but these are the only three wires in the bundle. I took pictures during the light off cycle so this was the best picture I could get.



http://i20.invalid.com/albums/b211/indicablue/Wiringinside.jpg

Picture of terminal on outdoor condenser unit. L1 & L2 on the left are my power running to condenser. L1 & L2 are my lines from ac disconnect box. If you look at the S terminal you can see a yellow wire on the top side of the terminal running to condenser (thermostat???) which looks like a 14g to me. Definitely did not see multiple wires like you would in a thermostat wire. But I want to double check before I hook all up and text for power.


http://i20.invalid.com/albums/b211/indicablue/outdoorunit.jpg

Hope this helps... It looks like I could just run a 14g as my temperature wire but I wanted to get an experienced opinion. I have copper lines installed on the air handler and just need to have this wired so that I can bolt down unit and attach rest of my line set. Then it's time to test, run and grow.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Hello John!

You helped me in the past so I am looking to you to help me figure out a couple of situations I have. Sorry for the long post.

I have a bloom room with 4x 1kw vented lights, and 2x 1kw unvented wings (6kw total). I also run a 4 burner co2 generator, and occasionally a 70 pint dehumidifier. The temps are in the upper 80's at times and when hot outside it can reach low 90's.

The room is cooled by a 24k btu Mitsubishi Mr Slim w/heat pump/inverter as it was originally designed for 4 lights. With the additional 2 lights its not quit cutting the mustard anymore and I find myself looking to add heat shields etc to my hoods to further cool the room.

Directly outside this room I have a 4kw bloom room with 2 of the lights vented but this room is not cooled and gets too hot as well. These rooms are framed into a garage with rigid insulation as the walls and ceilings.

I have the desire to add a veg area to a 10x10 space that is also in this location and would like to run between 3-4k watts in there to veg 40-50 plants in 4 gal pots. This room can be vented through the ceiling to aid in cooling but much more will be required to keep it within preferred ranges.

I have been considering upsizing my mini split as well as going to a multi zone unit w/heat pump. Two to handle the bloom room/s (one handler for each area) one to handle the veg room and one potentially for the living space.

I am completely confused on how to size a multi zone unit for a setup such as this. I know a good rule of thumb is 6000btu per 1kw but how do the multiple zones figure into things? Am I being too ambitious for my situation? Is something like this doable?


I have another 4kw room at another location which could benefit from my current 24kbtu Mr Slim so the current unit would not be going to waste but improving yet another room if I upgrade at this house.

I truly appreciate you sharing your expertise on this subject. I wouldn't be where I am now without having found your thread years ago.

Thanks

Smokey

Forget the multizone unit. Way to expensive and max of 4 tons total cooling capacity. Do each unit as a single zone Mr Slim at 6000 btus per hr for 1 kw of lighting

 

[CannabisJohn]

Took me a second to get back to you but my dog took on a skunk and the skunk won... Here is a picture of the wiring terminal on the indoor unit.
L1 and L2 are my hots from condenser and I have a green for ground. Also I'm not sure what the two slots on the right are for???

Here is the 14/3 wire that came with installation kit already attached and run from the condenser. I checked the wire to make sure I did not miss a 4th sensor wire but these are the only three wires in the bundle. I took pictures during the light off cycle so this was the best picture I could get.

Picture of terminal on outdoor condenser unit. L1 & L2 on the left are my power running to condenser. L1 & L2 are my lines from ac disconnect box. If you look at the S terminal you can see a yellow wire on the top side of the terminal running to condenser (thermostat???) which looks like a 14g to me. Definitely did not see multiple wires like you would in a thermostat wire. But I want to double check before I hook all up and text for power.

Hope this helps... It looks like I could just run a 14g as my temperature wire but I wanted to get an experienced opinion. I have copper lines installed on the air handler and just need to have this wired so that I can bolt down unit and attach rest of my line set. Then it's time to test, run and grow.

I can't see the pics.

 

[KeepSimple]

I can't see the pics.

That's because I just popped my post pic cherry and am having some premature photo upload problems. Where do I upload these pics. Just tried from my photobucket with no love.

 

[KeepSimple]

Took me a second to get back to you but my dog took on a skunk and the skunk won... Here is a picture of the wiring terminal on the indoor unit.
L1 and L2 are my hots from condenser and I have a green for ground. Also I'm not sure what the two slots on the right are for???

Here is the 14/3 wire that came with installation kit already attached and run from the condenser. I checked the wire to make sure I did not miss a 4th sensor wire but these are the only three wires in the bundle. I took pictures during the light off cycle so this was the best picture I could get.

Picture of terminal on outdoor condenser unit. L1 & L2 on the left are my power running to condenser. L1 & L2 are my lines from ac disconnect box. If you look at the S terminal you can see a yellow wire on the top side of the terminal running to condenser (thermostat???) which looks like a 14g to me. Definitely did not see multiple wires like you would in a thermostat wire. But I want to double check before I hook all up and text for power.

Finally figured it out. Had to go find the new guy tutorial on how to upload pics so hopefully this works. My bad mods for the repost was unable to figure out how to edit my original post without images.

 

[CannabisJohn]

Took me a second to get back to you but my dog took on a skunk and the skunk won... Here is a picture of the wiring terminal on the indoor unit.
L1 and L2 are my hots from condenser and I have a green for ground. Also I'm not sure what the two slots on the right are for???


View attachment 409082


Here is the 14/3 wire that came with installation kit already attached and run from the condenser. I checked the wire to make sure I did not miss a 4th sensor wire but these are the only three wires in the bundle. I took pictures during the light off cycle so this was the best picture I could get.


View attachment 409086


Picture of terminal on outdoor condenser unit. L1 & L2 on the left are my power running to condenser. L1 & L2 are my lines from ac disconnect box. If you look at the S terminal you can see a yellow wire on the top side of the terminal running to condenser (thermostat???) which looks like a 14g to me. Definitely did not see multiple wires like you would in a thermostat wire. But I want to double check before I hook all up and text for power.

View attachment 409087

Finally figured it out. Had to go find the new guy tutorial on how to upload pics so hopefully this works. My bad mods for the repost was unable to figure out how to edit my original post without images.

Best I can figure is that they sent your wrong wire. Should have been 14/4. Get some new 14 gauge wire to do S terminal or some 14/4 at Home Depot or Lowes.

 

[dieseldawg2480]

hey John
I live in MI. The temps range from below freezing during winter months to mid 90's during the summer months.

Dimensions: 19'x22'x7' located in the basement below grade w/ insulated ceilings.

total wattage (btu) 9-1kw wings (ballasts outside of room)
2-45 pint dehu
8-burner CO generator
1/2hp eco plus h2o chiller (5115 btu's) pondering on leaving this in the room or sub room under the ac load??
8-circulating fans
2-8" centrifugal attached to carbon scrubbers

How many btu's are the CO gen and each dehu's? I read that each co burner is about 3000 btu? What about the 40pint dehu? r they about 1200 btu each?

Now lets say for instance I install a 3 ton for the heat load above. If I run at 50% the heat load above is the ac going to be way over sized and not run correctly? What can be done to resolve different heat loads?

What can be done to run the condenser unit during the colder months 30-50 f temps? Compressor heating coil? whats the min temp I can run ac condensing unit?

I have many more questions just didn't want to over extend. thanks D-dawg

 

[blazer]

If you go with a inverter system they are modulating system so will run at variable speeds depending on heat load, and will run in low single digit temps and still cool and heat if using a heatpump

 

[dieseldawg2480]

If you go with a inverter system they are modulating system so will run at variable speeds depending on heat load, and will run in low single digit temps and still cool and heat if using a heatpump

so the blower speed is a two stage or multi speed? and the a-coil has a expansion valve to regulate the refrigerant upon the load? I have kin that owns a hvac co. he's just not sure how to size g-rooms with the correct load size. what brand would u recommend? looking for higher end equipment.
with no expense spared what system would work the best with controlling temp and humidity?
Central AC or water cooled coils w/chiller system??

 

[CannabisJohn]

hey John
I live in MI. The temps range from below freezing during winter months to mid 90's during the summer months.

Dimensions: 19'x22'x7' located in the basement below grade w/ insulated ceilings.

total wattage (btu) 9-1kw wings (ballasts outside of room)
2-45 pint dehu
8-burner CO generator
1/2hp eco plus h2o chiller (5115 btu's) pondering on leaving this in the room or sub room under the ac load??
8-circulating fans
2-8" centrifugal attached to carbon scrubbers

How many btu's are the CO gen and each dehu's? I read that each co burner is about 3000 btu? What about the 40pint dehu? r they about 1200 btu each?

Now lets say for instance I install a 3 ton for the heat load above. If I run at 50% the heat load above is the ac going to be way over sized and not run correctly? What can be done to resolve different heat loads?

What can be done to run the condenser unit during the colder months 30-50 f temps? Compressor heating coil? whats the min temp I can run ac condensing unit?

I have many more questions just didn't want to over extend. thanks D-dawg

A 3 ton is the absolute minimum I would use. Here in SoCal I would recommend a 4-5 ton. You can get a inverter style 3 ton ductless mini split and run it at 1/2 load. If you go with something else not inverter then running it at 50% load will cause it to start and stop too much. I would recommend Mitshubushi Mr Slim mini splits. It can run in outdoor temps of 14F I believe but I have had reports from other Mi farmers that it does fine colder also.

 

[dieseldawg2480]

I was just using a 3 ton as a example. So you would recommend mini split over a forced air handler and condenser? Is it possible to get a inverter style unit in a central ac unit (forced air)? My issue is when im vegging stage I may only be using 2-3kw compared to 6-9kw in flower. How about 2 different sized condenser/air handlers systems? example a 2ton and 4 ton? I dunno just a thought.

 

[blazer]

so the blower speed is a two stage or multi speed? and the a-coil has a expansion valve to regulate the refrigerant upon the load? I have kin that owns a hvac co. he's just not sure how to size g-rooms with the correct load size. what brand would u recommend? looking for higher end equipment.
with no expense spared what system would work the best with controlling temp and humidity?
Central AC or water cooled coils w/chiller system??

On mini splits with inverter they are variable speed which will rotate at all different speeds(not a multispeed such as hi med and low) doesent have set speeds its a modulating system so it can run at 100%,50%23%87% speed what ever.speed it wants(calls for) same as compressor will modulate also the exspansion valve are electronic also so they all work in conjuction together so it can modulat and give such great efficiency,Fujitsu,mitsubishi,sanyo seem to the better ones alot of new brands not sure of LG used probs with there sensors which was an easy fix but nusance problem for sure.

I know trane and carrier probably has a variable speed system,not sure if they went inverter yet in central A/C systems,the Trane variable speed system had a two stage compressor and the indoor blower was variable speed same with carrier with a one speed compressor,been out the hvac game a minute so migjt be so new shit I have no clue about yet but CJ should have you covered there.

If you dont want no exspense spared and want the best these are inverter,humidifier,dehumidifier,all in one super pricey but will perform and are super heavy duty are Liebert systems we used for computer rooms only(server rooms) they are comercial units.

 

[dieseldawg2480]

On mini splits with inverter they are variable speed which will rotate at all different speeds(not a multispeed such as hi med and low) doesent have set speeds its a modulating system so it can run at 100%,50%23%87% speed what ever.speed it wants(calls for) same as compressor will modulate also the exspansion valve are electronic also so they all work in conjuction together so it can modulat and give such great efficiency,Fujitsu,mitsubishi,sanyo seem to the better ones alot of new brands not sure of LG used probs with there sensors which was an easy fix but nusance problem for sure.

I know trane and carrier probably has a variable speed system,not sure if they went inverter yet in central A/C systems,the Trane variable speed system had a two stage compressor and the indoor blower was variable speed same with carrier with a one speed compressor,been out the hvac game a minute so migjt be so new shit I have no clue about yet but CJ should have you covered there.

If you dont want no exspense spared and want the best these are inverter,humidifier,dehumidifier,all in one super pricey but will perform and are super heavy duty are Liebert systems we used for computer rooms only(server rooms) they are comercial units.

thanks! yeah a decade or more back the residential r-22 days. when recovery was just started to get regulated. is when I worked for the fam doing furnace n ac cleanings and installs. I can put it together and take them apart. I know nothing about sizing and the new technology they have today 410a etc.

 

[blazer]

Yep 410a it's suposed to be like 3%more efficient than R-22,Gotta love the EPA lol,runs higher pressure uses different oil bout it really,yeah everything is going electronic and variable speed,the price of R22 is off the charts now.

You were saying possible two units thats always a good idea when running temp critical rooms that way if a unit goes down you still have one going and your totally screwed cause it happens and always at the hottest time.