Grow Room design-RDWC questions and ideas

[Cool_Beans]

Raw water parameters after circulating overnight.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Regarding water quality, is RO always the way, or does tap work fine as long as you know what's in it and can adjust?
What things might stand out in tap water that would make it less desirable for hydro?

 

[GrilledCheeze]

Regarding water quality, is RO always the way, or does tap work fine as long as you know what's in it and can adjust?
What things might stand out in tap water that would make it less desirable for hydro?

I've always used municipal tap but it can vary greatly depending on location. I don't grow hydro but I'll go ahead and assume that if you have a high mineral tap water that could lead to issues with deposits forming on your equipment?

 

[Moe.Red]

Regarding water quality, is RO always the way, or does tap work fine as long as you know what's in it and can adjust?
What things might stand out in tap water that would make it less desirable for hydro?

At 50 PPM and 7.5PH, I would not be scared at all.

What you want to look for is sodium in your tap water report. If there is none or a very low level, i would just use it. I doubt 50PPM is going to mess with you at all. Now if it is 300PPM like mine, to me that is worth RO. But even then there are folks that use well water with more than double that and get away with it.

Which is more important to you, $150 in your wallet or the peace of mind that your source water is not going to be an issue (although you will need to buffer it)?

 

[Cool_Beans]

Thanks Moe, good stuff. I'll dig up a water analysis report and have a look. Im asking because I know our ground water quality here is generally excellent and being able to use it would simplify my process significantly.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Clones going buck wild over in the corner lol.

 

[steamroller]

Besides elevated PPM, most go RO because their water has a high KH[ even if they never figured it out] which makes buffering it a short live effort in going crazy. You know set it today and tomorrow the numbers are right back where you started. That is what KH does. It fights buffering.
Like Moe said with 50ppm I would have no fear barring the high sodium report which I just don't think could be there at 50ppm. Salts raise ppm .
You can get your water analysis just buy looking up your supplier online. They are required yearly test in most areas as a minimum.

Are your clones in your tap and have done anything for them?
Nothing speaks louder than a true example of the results in use..

 

[ninjadip]

Besides elevated PPM, most go RO because their water has a high KH[ even if they never figured it out] which makes buffering it a short live effort in going crazy. You know set it today and tomorrow the numbers are right back where you started. That is what KH does. It fights buffering.
Like Moe said with 50ppm I would have no fear barring the high sodium report which I just don't think could be there at 50ppm. Salts raise ppm .
You can get your water analysis just buy looking up your supplier online. They are required yearly test in most areas as a minimum.

Are your clones in your tap and have done anything for them?
Nothing speaks louder than a true example of the results in use..

Thanks @steamroller! i didn't know i could look up my municipal water test results for free

it's soo cool i'm reading them now. while i don't want to take over the thread, i'm curious if posting the results would help anyone else out, because i am not sure which readings are "bad" for hydro or not.
@Cool_Beans i'm assuming you won't mind, cause we've talked somewhat outside of this lol. fyi i found my results on my city's .gov website
I'm def jealous of your low-ass ppm tap water! i think mine is always 200+

this is one section out of a huge breakdown. is that salt content normal? i've already done 2 grows with my tap water. i'm wondering if i could better fine tune my nute line up based off of these results.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Nah dude make yourself at home. I started this thread for learning stuff and hanging out. I'll start an actual grow diary someday lol.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Besides elevated PPM, most go RO because their water has a high KH[ even if they never figured it out] which makes buffering it a short live effort in going crazy. You know set it today and tomorrow the numbers are right back where you started. That is what KH does. It fights buffering.
Like Moe said with 50ppm I would have no fear barring the high sodium report which I just don't think could be there at 50ppm. Salts raise ppm .
You can get your water analysis just buy looking up your supplier online. They are required yearly test in most areas as a minimum.

Are your clones in your tap and have done anything for them?
Nothing speaks louder than a true example of the results in use..

Recent analysis says 3-4.2 ppm sodium. The clones like it just fine so you're right, I'm gonna listen to them.

Edit- Theyve been taking about a week to coast from 5.8pH or so back up to 7. Ppms were slow to drop at first, but recently accelerated once the roots reestablished. I just add a little ph down and let it coast back up.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Two are turning the most amazing shade of deep purple. Juliette is in the front, the mother of my clones. She is the most beautiful thing I have ever grown.

 

[Cool_Beans]

I'm so tempted to hang a temporary grow light in here and fuckin send it lol.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Should I have an air stone or some agitation in my reservoir? It's pretty flat. Also, I have a mesh sack of bio balls I was going to put over the drain hole of my res for building up bacteria. I use them in our little artificial waterfall/fish pond system outside, I assumed it would be gtg in this.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Yes and yes.

 

[Moe.Red]

Should I have an air stone or some agitation in my reservoir? It's pretty flat. Also, I have a mesh sack of bio balls I was going to put over the drain hole of my res for building up bacteria. I use them in our little artificial waterfall/fish pond system outside, I assumed it would be gtg in this.

So what happens in the root zone in a live system is pretty involved. For example, the plant may release carbohydrates thru the roots (exudates) to feed beneficial bacteria. This bacteria might do several things in symbiosis with the plants. Change PH. Produce enzymes or modify proteins / generate amino acids. Just a whole bunch of stuff. The root zone (rhizosphere) is it's own little universe.

You want the vast majority of the colony to be on the roots. That will happen naturally because that's where the food comes from. The drawback is that they are consuming the same O2 that the plant wants. Too much of a good thing can create problems for the plant. O2 being vital and all. So if the plant stops feeding the BB on the roots in an effort to save O2 or other necessary supplies for itself (it's stressed), the nature of bacteria is to multiply until they have consumed all resources, which causes a colony crash. Boom and bust. Keeping a honey pot of bacteria in a different well oxygenated area in the res helps to mitigate the bust cycles. This is where your bio balls can help.

All this really isn't an issue if you have healthy plants that are properly fed and have adequate recourses. Its the imbalances that cause boom and bust.

It is impossible to over-oxygenate. The laws of physics prevent it. But air stones by themselves typically provide little direct oxygenation, rather they keep the water stirred and the bottom cycled to the top where contact with the atmosphere does the O2 replenishment. They also force new air into the res which should contain higher levels of O2 and lower levels of CO2 than the air right around the water. That's a good thing, especially if your res is sealed off to block out light.

If you really wanted to oxygenate with bubbles, you need micro bubbles. The surface area and hang time of the bubble in the water column make it transfer gasses more efficiently. There is no cheap, reliable way to make micro-bubbles, and if you do go with wood blocks or similar from the aquarium trade, expect a lot of maintenance. Performance is high when you first deploy them but tapers off pretty quickly.

So, that's a lot of words to say yes, you want to aerate your res with an air pump that is external to the res in an area of preferably cool, high O2 air. And yes, having structure inside the res that is highly oxygenated via airstone(s) is also a big plus for overall stability. Bio Balls are perfect for this use.

And we haven't even talked about symbiotic fungi yet that actually increase root mass directly. They want this stuff too.

Big roots = big fruits.

The other cool thing about the bag of bio balls is that you can use them to seed another hydro system with the balanced colony you need without a bunch of very costly products. It's like a sourdough starter for hydromies.

You are doing it right, even if you don't fully realize it yet.

 

[Cool_Beans]

This is really fascinating stuff, thank you for taking the time and explaining it like that Moe. Glad to hear I'm on the right track.

 

[Moe.Red]

This is really fascinating stuff, thank you for taking the time and explaining it like that Moe. Glad to hear I'm on the right track.

No problem.

If it sounds like I know what I am talking about that’s not entirely true. I got the basics but the interactions in the root zone are so complex I’ll be the first to admit I’m only scratching the surface and understand little overall.

 

[Cool_Beans]

No problem.

If it sounds like I know what I am talking about that’s not entirely true. I got the basics but the interactions in the root zone are so complex I’ll be the first to admit I’m only scratching the surface and understand little overall.

I suppose it's like cooking, they can teach you the science but it's still a lot of alchemy and art.

 

[Cool_Beans]

I thought this was a hair, but it's a weird little tendril.

 

[steamroller]

Meow baby!
I see a hair in last pic bottom right?
My grow room is not even in my house, and I still get hair from my 1 cat and wife!
Most everyone here has posted the obligatory bud/ cat hair photo at least once.
First two pics do like something else though?