Here's a real stumper..SUN BURN .I guess...what do you think about this issue

[Seamaiden]

What's the reason for keeping them in the dark for two days prior to flipping? I don't think that's contributing to your problems, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[The Hippy]

HI Seamaiden
Well I respect your knowledge and agree why?
Well the I only keep them in the dark for two days because I've read that it prepares the plant for the new shortened blooming period. I dunno.??????.you know how much info is on these sites. Tons of opinions as to what is better ?????
I think you were on to something in suggesting a different way to introduce them to this higher intensity light.
So I think I have come up with a solution.
I purchased some window screening in black. I doubled it over so it is two layers. I then made a curtain that hands in the middle of the tent out of this double layered screen. I weighted the bottom with a steel tube so it hangs flat and has some weight to the curtain bottom. It hangs just off center of the HPS tube in the tent to diffuse the light to one half ( adjustable ) It can be moved left or right to allow for more or less plants. It definitely cuts back some of the light.
So far over the 2 days it is in there it seems to have worked. Time will tell of course. It's gonna take a few weeks to see how the newbie girls flipped like it. Plus after they are accustomed to this more diffused light, I don't know how they will react once given the full light. I'm hoping this more gentle way of getting used to these brighter lights will allow them to then accept full light without going " campfire on me" and burning all up as you have seen.
Of course this is only a fix and not a real solution as to why they get light bleached as it has been referred to.
But if this new half way light thing works and allow them to be more ready for the full intensity then it will be more or less solved.
No point in trying to figure out why they don't like the bigger HPS lights then I guess if this is the answer as a fix.
I guess essentially that I'm trying to condition them to this>
I'l keep updating this as to how it goes as the days pass and a pattern is set.

Thanks again to all who showed an interest and lent a hand here.

 

[Seamaiden]

Interesting solution, and even moreso that it's working well for you. You should be able to remove a layer of the screen each day, and thus acclimate them. Another method is to put the light up as high as you can, then drop it each day a few inches. Another method that reefkeepers use is to put extra pieces of glass over the tank (or in the hood if it's that sort of hood), though they're usually using MH or LED.

Hippy, try a comparison, do the dark thing for one plant and not for another, and tell us what happens or what the differences are. :)

 

[The Hippy]

Update
All plants are doing excellent under the screened subdued lighting. It's seems that the lower light is just what they need. Stil early in the process but showing much better results this way. Now I haven't had it this way long enough to see the buds yet. But the burning seems to be over.
I'll update this thread with some current pics soon.

 

[Seamaiden]

Have you acclimated them to full light yet? I would think they'd be fully acclimated by now. Otherwise, you might have to try the drip method.

 

[The Hippy]

HI Seamaiden
I'm sort of nervous to give em full light yet. I think I'll give 4 more days behind the screen. Then i will move one into the brighter section and see what happens.
Wish them luck...poor girls

 

[The Hippy]

Here are some (crappy pics)
Most of the burning has stopped with this screen and defused light out come.
There are still a few older bu

rned girls in the back ground if you notice

 

[The Hippy]

 

[The Hippy]

I will know in a few more weeks how the budding is progressing. I'm hoping they still produce nicely under this screened and lesser light thing situation.
Anybody know why they might be doing this? Is there a product that will get them ready for the big flip from induction to HPS ?

 

[Seamaiden]

Whoa... you've had to keep them under the screens? That's not normal, not normal at all. The plant already has everything it needs to handle full sun, and that's far more intense than any thouie.

 

[The Hippy]

Yes I know Seamaiden. I can't figure it out either. But then again I am not super knowledgeable on nutrients and chemicals. I just basically follow directions on a set of Nutrients designed to work together. I am completly baffled as to why this extra light of the thouie is messing them up. The induction bloom tent does well, just not as big a yield as with the big HPS. But bud quality is very nice indeed. More of a luscious type bud. Not as dense, but very sticky. I just wanted to be able to run both type light. That may yet to seen if this will work or flop. I also noticed some of the top leaves seem to be doing this ( Pic below). What does this look like Seamaiden.....maybe a clue to what they may be doing or missing. As always thanks for your interest. I appreciate your experience.

 

[Seamaiden]

That does not look like a burn, it looks like a deficiency. But then... after reading that paper Quantum posted in Capulator's thread about light affecting nutrient utilization and uptake?

In any event, if those are top leaves doing that, what I see suggests a Ca- and P- (reddened petiole, unless the main stalk of the plant has that or is striped, then it's to be expected). No spider mites or any other bugs?

I'm going to attach my charts for you here.

 

[The Hippy]

Thanks Seamaiden
I think my leaves seem to fall into that second pic. The nitrogen deficiency.
So how is that fixed. Get some N and use it?
No I have no bugs. I've never seen any or any webbing at all. I live in a pretty well sealed cave lol
I started using Super Thrive in bloom and veg. I was told it's a good product and plants love it...Your opinion is??

 

[Seamaiden]

Except... that N- occurs on lower leaves only (which is why I attached that flow chart, it's very important to tie the where in, otherwise you may misdiagnose the what). IF the affected leaves were occurring at the bottom of the plant, my call would be a Mg-. Looking at the graphic+flow chart, I'm landing on a combination of issues, deriving from the second column from the left of the flow chart; i.e. Fe, Mn, Zn, or Cu. I'm not sure if P+ would cause reddening or purpling of the petioles as a P- does, but... this is all quite odd. You posted that the following is your feeding regimen, but I don't recall your media. The issue for me is that I am not familiar with this particular nutrient line. I also don't recall if you said you've used this before with success.

Well I'm using DNF (Dutch Nutrient Formula) Bloom A + B . I also use DNF carbo logic and bloom fortifier. A dash of some Cal Mag as well. About 50ml in 78 litres of water. I usually end up at about 1000 ppm. I tried several weeks of water only but it didn't seem to help. They just start to do this so fast after hitting this brighter light?? I try to keep the PH at around 6. I don't have a PH meter at the moment but have been using the drop tester kit . The bottom are less burned for sure but still some wilting and curling is there as well.

This really has me stumped, I must admit. If they're doing great in veg, but then turn to crispy critters when flipped...? And I don't think you're overfeeding, but that is a possibility. And if that's the case, then we'd have to look at lock-out (but why would it only show post-flip???).

And, you're saying that as long as you keep some window screen between the plants and the lights, they do better, right? WTF-age abounds.

I've never found love for Superthrive. I know lots of people swear by it, I felt it was a waste of my time.

 

[oscar169]

Root Bound

 

[The Hippy]

Root bound...maybe......when dumping the Pro mix bx at the end they don't seem to be too bad. Stupid question but what does real root bound look like. My do wrap around the square pots at the bottom ,b ut don't seem like over crowded? Is that the correct assumption?

Yes Seamaiden the media is Pro mix bx. It's the only one I use and has given me great past and present results. Remember I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most of you guys. chemistry is not my best subject lol. I'm more of instruction on the bottle type guy. I do a program and try to do the other stuff well too. Usually this, buy a line of products and use them as instructed, has work well. I really appreciate you and all the other folks here lending some ideas.
Here what I'm seeing in the last week.
Some of the plants that get more direct light right under the screen at the 6 o'clock position have a few melty leaves. Not nearly as bad as pre screen times though. Then others plants that are getting light on more of an angle, at say at 3 or 9 o 'clock are showing much less leave issue's and are starting to look pretty good. It is slight less intense at the 3 and 9 o'clock position. So maybe the difference in this right there.
Now on that super thrive issue. Yes I know nothing of the product and are using it on recommendations.
I put it in the nutes solution and straight water mix ( two stage filter in line first ). I also use Cal mag in both feeding reservoirs. Maybe not enough. Just say 50 mg in 20 gal of water or nutes mix...both.
So now I've been adding this super Thrive stuff.
It seems that all plants maybe befitting from this stuff. Just a hunch at this point as it's too new to the whole regiment of stuff I use. Plus I'm noticing that the new flips in the hps tent are looking better than when I didn't use it. I have been thinking that the flips need to be toughened up a bit to get them hardier ??? So in veg I added a veg fortifier to my other part A & B Dutch Nutrient formula Line of veg ferts. Hoping this fortifier and Super Thrive may get them a bit tougher...I know maybe stupid?
But I do seem to be seeing less of the original burning in the pics at the top of this thread. I'm mean that was excessive to say the least.
This improvement maybe mostly due to the screen I suppose. Just still nervous to give them the full Monty of the big one thouie ( Seamaiden's code word ) for 100 watt HPS lamp...he he

So Seamaiden or any other smart heads. Is there something missing in the line up of ingredients.
They simply don't enjoy the flip to big light.
Maybe in time I will try a flip into an area not shaded by the screen and see if the new tougher veg ladies are any more equipped to handle this change in intensity.

 

[Seamaiden]

Once the roots start circling, they're beginning to become bound in the pot. If the bottom of the pot is filled with circled roots, that's definitely root bound.

 

[The Hippy]

Yes that makes sense. Well mine do reached the bottom, but don't seem to circle. I know what you mean now and can visualize what your saying. Maybe I will post a pic on the next one I pull and trim. That way you guys can offer an opinion on what mine look like.
Dam just did 3 last night and could have snapped a pic....oh well their in the garbage now....next time.

 

[2doggardens]

Have you tested the ph and ppm of the runoff? If it comes out at a higher ppm then you have salt build up and your plants can't access the nutrients in the soil. That might be why they are cannibalizing.

 

[Natural]

I agree, the pots seem a bit small for those size plants in soil..coco would work better...and root-makers pots would help. But, It seems a bit more extreme than just that though.
I think this is due to nutrient imbalance in the leaf tissue..causing your leaves to literally cook. I'm pretty sure it isn't the light change. It's most likely a bad PH meter...which would make it worse every time you "feed normally". Never a bad idea to have more than one meter around and keep fresh calibration fluid at hand...to check if it is reading correct.