Here's a real stumper..SUN BURN .I guess...what do you think about this issue

[The Hippy]

Hey Guys and Gals

I think my plants get ...SUN BURNT

Note: None of my tents get more than 78- 80 degrees hot at any time....so heat is NOT the problem

Thanks for reading this and even giving it a thought. I know this has been stumping me and my expert source for the last 3 months. I recently stared using some Igrow induction lights. I switched most of my medi grow to induction lighting. I was using 1k watt HPS lamps for blooming in my previous setup exclusively for blooming. With good results.
My veg area was supported with a single 400MH . After transferring the ladies from the 400MH veg tent to the 1000 HPS tents they always did well. ( a clue for later ). So basically before the change over all was pretty good. The tents were much hotter though, but still yields were good and everything always went well in my perpetual setup.

First the good about induction lights. Way less heat to deal with.....huge hydro savings......easier to work around and more comfortable to be near. The Igrows create a nicer environment in general. The tent just feels less savage and raw with the gentler lighting...of course it would.
I have never had better veg plants than I do now with 3 x 200 watt Igrows in a 4x8 tent. The new Igrows make my vegging girls superb. Way healthier than under the MH 400 I was using in a 4x4 tent before the switch to induction. I have over all less light than I was using in veg before. I now use 3 Igrow 400's in the 4x8 as opposed to 1x400MH in a 4x4 tent. So less light per squared ft but the plants do so much BETTER under induction in the veg state. I love them for vegging with zero complaints at all. Lush and fuller than before. I made no other changes by the way. Just the lights themselves. All ferts and other techniques stayed the same. So easy to see they like the Igrow veg light very much.

I am using an other 4x8 tent with 3 400 watt Igrows to bloom. Pretty good results but with less yield than I had with the HPS setup. Was using 2400 watts under HPS and am now using 1200 watts induction in the same sized tent as before. I need another Igrow 400 in there but, wow big $$$ to buy these things. Anyway even with half my previous amount of wattage they do great in the Igrow bloom tent. The buds are not as hard or quite as big. But they are very sticky and seem to taste better as well. I don't get as much withe the Igrow's but the overall plant is much healtier and more sticky than with the HPS lamps.

Now on to more of my problem. After the big switch is made for each plant then the issue starts.
I'm also running a 4x4 tnt with a 1k HPS lamp in it. I was trying to still get that bigger yield from that tent. Basically like my old setup I just switched from. I had the equipment so I thought why not use it. bought a new 1000 watt HPS hortilux bulb . Figured I would get the same results I always got...WRONG -O
All the plants in the HPS tent now just burn up and fry the most of the leaves off. SHIT !
I have tried moving pants directly from the veg tent and also from the bloom tent in this HPS setup. THEY ALL BURN immediately. Even if they are in there final bloom stage or the beginning stage. Anything that goes from Igrow to high pressure sodium burns up.
Now if the heat was excessive or the laps was too close I could see this. But the temp is great and no matter where they are, close or in the corner they burn

So here is my conclusion on this. For some reason plants grown under the gentler induction lights CAN NOT TOLERATE THE MUCH BRIGHTER HPS LAMPS. WTF
How can this be???? It is like they get sunburnt from the newer more intense light. My expert said....NO WAY. I say after months of trying this...YES SUNBURN

HAS ANYBODY ANY KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT MIGHT BE GOING ON HERE. Are they locking up and not taking any nutrients after seeing this new much brighter light. I don't get it at all. I tried flushing them and only feeding water. But the same result...burn.
Is there some way to condition the plant to be "tougher " after being in the more gentle induction lighting setup?

I can go all induction I guess but can't understand why the plants don't seem to like using HPS after being grown under induction. I need a much smarter brain then mine to figure this out.

They were always fine under MH or HPS and transitioned fine during the switch. But now they just can't seem to tolerate going from induction to HPS

Any ideas experts?

 

[The Hippy]

 

[619ster]

Have you checked for anything possibly offgassing? I've only seen that kind of damage from offgassing or LEDs that are not plant friendly (or lockout but I'm trying not to second guess your skill level here). Never from HPS. It sounds wierd but you could be on to something. Maybe the induction lighting gets them used to one thing, and they don't like changing over to another. But I've personally never seen or heard of that problem, and I grow under all kinds of light myself and do tend to mix things around. Just never played with induction much.

 

[The Hippy]

Well I'm by no means an expert and appreciate anything anyone thinks of. What is off gassing?
I feel it's not lockup because this burning of the leaves will start to happen within two days of going in to the HPS area. So it seems like it would be an extreme heat thing, but things are pretty cool in there with a ton of wind blowing. I never had a plant do this from wind before so I dunno.
It seems the most logical to say , yes they can't deal with the new intensity of light . They just don'r seem capable of being put into the much brighter HPS light if grown under the more gentle induction lights. Maybe that ids the obvious point and I'm too dumb to see it.
It's like the foliage is too "tender or delicate". Yet they seem like any other plant before they hit that HPS

 

[The Hippy]

Here are few other pics....yes it looks like heat damage....but is apparently light damage???

Where's Einstein when you need him?? lol

Anybodies knowledge on this rare "too much light"

subject would be appreciated greatly as my own brain is stalled !

 

[The Hippy]

I do have a low humidity level in there of below 50% sometimes as low as 40%. Could that be an issue do you think?
Should I shut the circulation fans off during night cycle and only pulse on or off during day cycle. They are on a 12/12 cycle. Are they simply drying up from low humidity. They are well water in Pro-mix and are never let go too dry. I don't really over water them either but they do look burnt dry?

 

[redrum]

Looks like too many nutrients to me

Def should get that humidity under control, but have never seen it do anything that bad

Light bleaching is the term I've herd tossed around, but it would be worst on top, and the bottoms would be unaffected

Wanna give us more info on nutrients ppm and pH?

 

[The Hippy]

Well I'm using DNF (Dutch Nutrient Formula) Bloom A + B . I also use DNF carbo logic and bloom fortifier. A dash of some Cal Mag as well. About 50ml in 78 litres of water. I usually end up at about 1000 ppm. I tried several weeks of water only but it didn't seem to help. They just start to do this so fast after hitting this brighter light?? I try to keep the PH at around 6. I don't have a PH meter at the moment but have been using the drop tester kit . The bottom are less burned for sure but still some wilting and curling is there as well.

 

[Mr_GreenGenes]

Although I did not like the induction light when I gave it a try, I didn't have any issues goin from a 430W induction to a 4K HPS flower room. What soil/soilless mix are you using? Reason I ask is I always run my FF soils around 6.4-6.5 for veg and a lil higher for flower. Not sure that has anything to do with your immediate issues here but it very well could. Wish I could be of more help but with em bein burned on top and some healthy leaves towrd the bottoem of the plants I'd say it looks like they got burnt the fuck up from the lights. If it is from the lights you should see em start to fade or bleach before they ever get to that point. Hope you get it figured out. MGG

 

[Seamaiden]

Hrmm... that only happens when you move them *from* induction (Indagro, yes?) to HPS lighting?

I personally have never worked with induction lights, so I can't really speak to that. However, what I'm getting from you is that you've been doing things a certain way, initially using HPS but then you upgraded to a couple of Indagro lights. You weren't having any kind of burning or overfeeding issues, but then you've experienced this terrible burning/crisping up of the leaves when moving plants from induction lights to HPS. Have I got the gist of it?

I've burned plants with HID lights, and I've burned them in the sun, and on no occasion has it ever looked like what you're depicting. I can absolutely say that much. I won't say that your girls aren't light-burned, but it sure is surprising that they may be. Have you tried changing how you introduce the plants to the lighting?

And, are there *any* other changes in husbandry that you've made or make when flipping? Also, there are some problems, such as root aphid infestations, that only really show themselves when the plant has been flipped.

The leaves you've plucked and photographed do not look light-burned to me. They look either deficient, or as though they've got a nutrient toxicity. All of them show strong Ca-, some show P-, and some show K-. This could be a toxicity or a deficiency, I've not worked with the nutrient regimen you are using.

If the change occurs only when the light changes, then that's part of the key to the solution for you. How's that? Because, light is the driver, the motor, the chassis. What could be changing when photoperiod or light intensity changes? Utilization of nutrients changes, that's one thing that changes.

 

[oscar169]

You got to be kidding me, Sun Burn HAHA, no why don't you start with transplanting them to bigger pots, I can guarantee you looking at them pics they are root bound all to hell, and burning up b/c of it plus to much food.

 

[Seamaiden]

Bound roots...? D'oh! I've got some girls I left in pots doing something similar, but they've been terribly neglected.

 

[chazbolin]

initially using HPS but then you upgraded to a couple of Indagro lights. You weren't having any kind of burning or overfeeding issues, but then you've experienced this terrible burning/crisping up of the leaves when moving plants from induction lights to HPS. Have I got the gist of it?

Hiya Seamaiden! You're close but he's not running Inda-Gro he's running iGrow lights which it might be that they use two different phosphor blends and he's still running their veg which is different from their flower. Worth looking into. I'm thinking bigger pots too.

 

[The Hippy]

Hi everyone
Thanks so much for adding to this thread. I'll try to answer a few of the comments
I'm using Pro-mix BX. I use the same stuff in all the tents. Yes they are Igrow lights and not indagro (I dunno if that makes a difference).
Yes Sea Maiden the problem occurs at the flip from 200 watt Igrows into the 1000 watt HPS tent. I leave them in the dark 48 hours prior and just put them the HPS tent. Not sure how else to introduce them. I wondered if there was some way to lessen that shock it seems to cause. It's definitely the HPS that's freaking them out because when flipped into the 400 watt Igrow bloom tent...no trouble. They progress like they normally would.
Yes chazbolin the Igrow veg color is more white than the Igrown bloom light. Just like as if they were MH to HPS....same sort of color difference. In veg they rock.
Hmmm root bound....how would I know? Is there a way to tell or see this? I use two different sized pots in my setup. One is about a 10x10 x12 high..not sure the gallon-age on it. The other is 9x9x9 high. I have been using these pots for 3 years and they seemed fine when all I did was MH and HPS growing. But this is a new game. I do use smaller pots in their earlier life cycle but transfer them to the above mention pots before the flipp.
As I said in the Igrow bloom tent all these things work pretty good. Less yield but pretty dam good for half my previous wattage usage. Was at 2400..now 1200 in the Igrow bloom tent 8x8 ft. Need another light in there.
The HPS tent is a single 1k Hortilux lamp in a 6 inch glass tube with air moving over it in a 4x4 tent. Seems not overly hot or anything.
Yes nutes seems like the problem but why only with the one seeing the bigger light. The Igrow bloomers seem happy with that nute regiment.
I't like they simply can't handle this brighter light deal. When they were grow under the 400MH the flip to HPS was fairly normal.
Is my humidity to low? 40-50% during light cycle.

Apides...well I've neever seen any bugs of any kind in my garden. Even after trimming and I dump the roots I've never seen any bugs. would I see these root apides then when the roots are visible to me?

 

[ttystikk]

Yes, your humidity its terribly low, which forces the plants to chug water to avoid wilting- which then inadvertently sucks too much nutrient into the plant, burning it worst where it gets the most light. What under one set of conditions would be a reasonable nutrient strength thus becomes lethally strong under adverse conditions.

Congrats, you've fried them- best bet now is to perform a quick flush, increase the distance between plants and light- how close are you running that thouie to the plants?- and maintain good air movement around the tops of the plants to avoid creating a hot spot. And, GET THAT HUMIDITY UP. Shoot, I run 70% RH @ 80F. Helps a lot when you're pumping CO², as well.

 

[ttystikk]

It is not uncommon to see light bleaching, aka light burn, occurring when plants are moved from one type of lighting to another, even closely related types like 1kW MH to 1kW HPS. In this case, the light difference between a very tired veg bulb and a fresh blooming thouie was enough of an intensity shock.

Hardening off plants to handle differing light conditions should be done at the tail end of veg. It can be done by introducing the plants to the new light for limited periods of time, increased over a few days until it can handle the full daily light interval.

 

[The Hippy]

Yes ttystikk I agree on that too fast too soon approach. I had added a new plant 3 days ago to the HPS tent. But I tried to hide it behind another plant to sort of shade it and let it get used to that new big light...seems logical. Just like us going out into the sun...not too much too fast. I think Seamaiden eluded to this idea in a way. Start in there slower some how. That new plant seems to be maybe holding it's own in the shade. At first some of the top leaves curled in a the first day or so somewhat. So I shaded it a bit more. I will need a few days to see if it makes a difference. I also just added 3 more flips and hid them behind other bigger and yes burnt plants. We will see if this hied-em method makes any diiferance. this will take 5 or 6 day. But the first one I mentioned ho is hiding will tell me sooner.

Man I gotta give these ladies credit for adversity. Even burnt they turn out some really nice tasty buds...all seven varieties. My Purps doesn't like the big light the most it seems.

Yes I will tried to get the humidity up. Would there be a different number for the optimum level of humidity in night or day cycles?. If I turn off the breeze fans in the night cycle will that be ok? I think the humidity would rise with the exhaust fan mostly off during the night cycle as well. If during the day cycle the humidity dropped to mid forties would negate the higher level in the night cycle.
And thanks again everyone so far for giving your attention and valuable time. More minds = more ideas..it helps

 

[ttystikk]

Slow down or shut off the exhaust fan during the day, to hold the air in and let moisture levels build. Exchange the bare minimum of air necessary to control temperature, a good quality environmental controller would help a lot here. Even better is going to a sealed room environment- again, more practical once you have your environmental controller in place.

Run that exchange fan at night, to limit humidity rise. Your plants fried from nutrient burn due to low humidity, so shading them won't help as much as higher RH. Keep fans blowing across your girls, this part is important.

 

[Dynamite]

if nute tox was the issue no matter the reason,you should very well beable to pour enough nutes thru to check your runoff and see if the ppm's are more then double what your putting in the top ,if so,yeah - major nute toxicity

How close is the light to the plants ? And what's the temp and humidity difference between the veg & bloom area ?

Plants don't do what your showing because of 40-50% humidity .majority of growers prefer it in that range

 

[chazbolin]

Yes Sea Maiden the problem occurs at the flip from 200 watt Igrows into the 1000 watt HPS tent. I

There very well may be stress associated from moving plants from a relatively low intensity 200 watt lamp into a much higher intensity 1000 watt hps and the plants were not ready for that transition. I don't know what lamp you are using on the iGrow, as you can see by this link they offer a veg or flower in the 200 watt light but a combination of low intensity for veg along with less UV-B than the plants needed could also produce shock. The HPS has very little UV-B.

http://www.igrowlights.com/images/pdf/product-sheets/200 w lamp and ballast cut sheet only fff.pdf

They explain the difference here

I have never seen an iGrow spectral distribution graph or perhaps an MSDS showing their phosphors. They don't publish them as they are claiming they're proprietary so it's hard to tell what the plants we're exposed to under whichever of the two iGrow 200 watt lamps you could have possibly chosen. Do you know for sure which iGrow lamp you used?