HOW TO WATER COCO FOR BEST RESULTS.

[Madmax]

Your a bloody night owl ha

 

[StealthLED]

Was going to start a new thread on this but thought I'd put this is here seen as this thread is already about watering coco...

Was watching a video on jungle boys talking about very high ec levels. Two days ago I noticed a few of my plants out of my 19 DTW had a run off ec of 3.0 (these plants have been getting a little less run off to the rest because they are a week or two in front of the others so roots system probably bigger) of cause I panicked straight away and started putting a few liters of res nutes through them to bring the ec down to around feed level which was 1.7

After I'd done that I looked at the plants and thought why have the plants not 'told me' the ec was high in the coco from nute burn or whatever reason... In fact they look amazing, after watching them videos jungle boys build the ec up fairly slowly and don't let the the media go dry, they say this is what causes burns when they go dry? Also they say a ec of 3.0 is not a problem in coco?

It seems like the standard go to ec is about 1.4-1.8 this is what I stick to. they do say some strains will do best at 1.6 but some strains won't show full potential until a ec of 3.0+ is reached. So if I was seeing no sign of stress at these high ec run offs is that my plants saying they can handle more?

But then it got me thinking more, if my plants can handle more why is the ec building in the first place? My coco is always wet with little run off every water so salts can't build up from drying out so surely this is the plants saying we don't need all that so we're leaving it behind, but this must also be the same with this guys in their big commercial places, I follow a few guys on IG and nearly all are running ec way over 2.0 with no problems... Also if you look at Athens which a lot of these big guys use, Athens says never let you ec go more than 1 over base, so if you have a base ec of 3.0 and the run of is 3.8 this is fine, and this also seems to correspond with what the guys using it do.

Now obviously I understand these are in purposes built commercial grow rooms sticking to vpd and using co2, but why does that stop us from pushing our plants a little if they can handle it and we have a dialed in room?

What do you guys think?

 

[Madmax]

@chemistry @oldskol4evr

 

[Aqua Man]

Was going to start a new thread on this but thought I'd put this is here seen as this thread is already about watering coco...

Was watching a video on jungle boys talking about very high ec levels. Two days ago I noticed a few of my plants out of my 19 DTW had a run off ec of 3.0 (these plants have been getting a little less run off to the rest because they are a week or two in front of the others so roots system probably bigger) of cause I panicked straight away and started putting a few liters of res nutes through them to bring the ec down to around feed level which was 1.7

After I'd done that I looked at the plants and thought why have the plants not 'told me' the ec was high in the coco from nute burn or whatever reason... In fact they look amazing, after watching them videos jungle boys build the ec up fairly slowly and don't let the the media go dry, they say this is what causes burns when they go dry? Also they say a ec of 3.0 is not a problem in coco?

It seems like the standard go to ec is about 1.4-1.8 this is what I stick to. they do say some strains will do best at 1.6 but some strains won't show full potential until a ec of 3.0+ is reached. So if I was seeing no sign of stress at these high ec run offs is that my plants saying they can handle more?

But then it got me thinking more, if my plants can handle more why is the ec building in the first place? My coco is always wet with little run off every water so salts can't build up from drying out so surely this is the plants saying we don't need all that so we're leaving it behind, but this must also be the same with this guys in their big commercial places, I follow a few guys on IG and nearly all are running ec way over 2.0 with no problems... Also if you look at Athens which a lot of these big guys use, Athens says never let you ec go more than 1 over base, so if you have a base ec of 3.0 and the run of is 3.8 this is fine, and this also seems to correspond with what the guys using it do.

Now obviously I understand these are in purposes built commercial grow rooms sticking to vpd and using co2, but why does that stop us from pushing our plants a little if they can handle it and we have a dialed in room?

What do you guys think?

My question would be what strain are they talking about?

Crop steering is a lot more complicated than just high feed and dryback and temps and nutrients. Its changes at specific times. Id say they are not giving all the info and nope I don't claim to have those answers.

 

[Aqua Man]

I haven't got anything set up yet but have purchased a lot of products to get going.

I already had a couple hundred 1 gal smart fabric pots from several years back.

Bought 2 of these.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07SRXPHT1?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title


Have a hundred foot of 3/4 inch line, 200 ft of 1/2 and 250 ft of 1/4. . Gonna put Ts in the 3/4" and have 1/2" line coming from the Ts down the middle of 2 rows. 1/2 coming from the 1/2" pipe.
One of my grow rooms is 15 x 12 and I'm planning on filling it up. Not sure on how many pots I need in their? Not wanting big plants maybe hip tall. But want a full canopy.
Do you have air pockets in the lines where the last plants get a lot of air instead of nuts?
Do you need a return line to the rez tank with a valve to pump the air back to the tank and also use it to control psi?
How do you keep the water siphoning out of the 60 gal barrel?
Does each emitter need its own 1/4 line or can I put 3 on one run to the pot? For example 1/4" line going to pot. Have a 4 way coming from the 1/4 line, have 3- 1/4" line with 2 gal emitters on the ends around the pot?
I've also thought of just using 1 line to the pot. Use a 3 way and just use a 1/4" line with small holes punch in the line and have em shaped in a ring around the plant watering all the way around it.

I've grown outside and in a greenhouse for around 30 yrs but inside only a dozen or more. Used to grow in a stadium setup where I had well over 300 plants in 1 gal bags. 1000s on a light mover bare bulb. Then went to dwc then rdwc. Still be doing that but got grey algae and battled that for a year.
I like the automation of rdwc but not the headache of disease in the water. Running sterile or using beneficials does nothing to stop grey algae. Had UV inline running 24/7 water chillers, auto PH dosers, etc. Nothing can contain the grey algae. So I'm switching to coco

I've already washed 10 bricks of coco and charged them with solution. Just trying to figure out the setup the first time and no screw ups cause emitters clogged in week 5. I'm running 2 gal emitters but don't know if they will clog up.

So in terms of tubing size ill need to do some digging an calculating for flow rates. But sounds reasonable if using a pump that will supply pressure at about 40psi.

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The number of plants will really depend on how long you are vegging. If you want em waist high fairly short veg should be needed. Maybe 2-3 weeks. I haven't done my SOG yet some spacing I would feel better leaving to someone else on that. But if you do a 1-2 week veg you can probably pack them in there side by side in 1 gal pots. This is my plan for the next grow 24 plants in a 4x6 and I expect similar results to what your intentions are. 1 plant per sq ft. Then you need to calculate the GPM/GPH needed based on the max flow rate of the sprayer heads and total number of sites. (Have to figure that out before choosing a pump) the manifolds require 40psi so thats the minimum you want to run. Of course you don't want to be way over that either.

You definitely will need to do a loop for the 3/4 line then running off like you said. I use risers and a manifold that will feed 6 lines. I believe you can get them up to 8. I would definitely run either a manifold or 1/4 line individually from the 1/2.

A 1 way check valve will prevent back flow and keeping the res water level lower than the end of the feed lines will prevent syphoning.

I would suggest not using any organics in the system as it will increase the chance of clogging. I have had no issues with mine clogging thus far.
In terms of pump I would go with a self priming irrigation pump. Like this but matching your needs once you figure out the number of plants.

The stakes i use are 30gph at 25 psi. Are the emitters you are using 2gph? Can you link them? It will make a difference in the pressure required if they are drip emitters ir sprayers. If they are drip emitters those pump may work

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

So in terms of tubing size ill need to do some digging an calculating for flow rates. But sounds reasonable if using a pump that will supply pressure at about 40psi.

Superior Pump 1 HP Sprinkler Pump 96110 - The Home Depot

Make watering your lawn easy with this 1 HP sprinkler pump. It pumps up to 830 gal. of water per hour at 72 psi., and the 1 HP fan-cooled motor allows superior performance. For easy operation and handling,

www.homedepot.com

The number of plants will really depend on how long you are vegging. If you want em waist high fairly short veg should be needed. Maybe 2-3 weeks. I haven't done my SOG yet some spacing I would feel better leaving to someone else on that. But if you do a 1-2 week veg you can probably pack them in there side by side in 1 gal pots. This is my plan for the next grow 24 plants in a 4x6 and I expect similar results to what your intentions are. 1 plant per sq ft. Then you need to calculate the GPM/GPH needed based on the max flow rate of the sprayer heads and total number of sites. (Have to figure that out before choosing a pump) the manifolds require 40psi so thats the minimum you want to run. Of course you don't want to be way over that either.

You definitely will need to do a loop for the 3/4 line then running off like you said. I use risers and a manifold that will feed 6 lines. I believe you can get them up to 8. I would definitely run either a manifold or 1/4 line individually from the 1/2.

A 1 way check valve will prevent back flow and keeping the res water level lower than the end of the feed lines will prevent syphoning.

I would suggest not using any organics in the system as it will increase the chance of clogging. I have had no issues with mine clogging thus far.
In terms of pump I would go with a self priming irrigation pump. Like this but matching your needs once you figure out the number of plants.

The stakes i use are 30gph at 25 psi. Are the emitters you are using 2gph? Can you link them? It will make a difference in the pressure required if they are drip emitters ir sprayers. If they are drip emitters those pump may work

Would this prevent back siphoning?

Hendrickson bros j10 hose vacuum breaker

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I"m using nothing but Jacks's nutrient line.


These are the emitters I bought.

Irritec idrop button dripper

Buy irritec idrop button dripper at Drip Depot for irrigation fixed. Free shipping and fast delivery for all your irrigation and plumbing projects.

www.dripdepot.com

I'm also gonna run some water wetter to help the flow of the emitters. gonna run once or 2x a week some Pekacid to get rid of any salt buildup.


I was planning on vegging for 3 weeks. This is all my first time running some coco but I've been researching it for the past couple months and trying to put everything together.

I can see why guys run bigger pots with bigger plants to fill a room up. I think though you can get much bigger yields running smaller pots with multiple waterings a day vs watering once per day.


Right now I'm trying to figure out how to run that pump you listed for me. "m planning on using a 60 gal barrel with a float valve and having another 60 gal barrel on a stand next to it to top it off during the day.
My first RDWC system was almost 400 gal and my last one was just 120 gal and I used the 60 gal barrels to keep my water levels up where I wanted them.
I would have pumps in the water, one pumping to the water chiller and one pump to one room of rdwc buckets and another pump to another room etc.

I don't know if I should run a water chiller anymore for my rez tank. But thought of reusing my auto dosiers that made sure the PH was in my desired range I wanted. I kept the veg system at 5.9 and the flower rooms at 5.6


I have this pump that I was using in my waterfall setup I used to run. It was really powerful compared to the dinky vivosun pumps.
https://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-GH2707-1250-Water/dp/B008UF9XBO

 

[Aqua Man]

Would this prevent back siphoning?

Hendrickson bros j10 hose vacuum breaker

Buy hendrickson bros j10 hose vacuum breaker at Drip Depot for drip irrigation backflow. Free shipping and fast delivery for all your irrigation and plumbing projects.

www.dripdepot.com

I"m using nothing but Jacks's nutrient line.


These are the emitters I bought.

Irritec idrop button dripper

Buy irritec idrop button dripper at Drip Depot for irrigation fixed. Free shipping and fast delivery for all your irrigation and plumbing projects.

www.dripdepot.com

I'm also gonna run some water wetter to help the flow of the emitters. gonna run once or 2x a week some Pekacid to get rid of any salt buildup.


I was planning on vegging for 3 weeks. This is all my first time running some coco but I've been researching it for the past couple months and trying to put everything together.

I can see why guys run bigger pots with bigger plants to fill a room up. I think though you can get much bigger yields running smaller pots with multiple waterings a day vs watering once per day.


Right now I'm trying to figure out how to run that pump you listed for me. "m planning on using a 60 gal barrel with a float valve and having another 60 gal barrel on a stand next to it to top it off during the day.
My first RDWC system was almost 400 gal and my last one was just 120 gal and I used the 60 gal barrels to keep my water levels up where I wanted them.
I would have pumps in the water, one pumping to the water chiller and one pump to one room of rdwc buckets and another pump to another room etc.

I don't know if I should run a water chiller anymore for my rez tank. But thought of reusing my auto dosiers that made sure the PH was in my desired range I wanted. I kept the veg system at 5.9 and the flower rooms at 5.6


I have this pump that I was using in my waterfall setup I used to run. It was really powerful compared to the dinky vivosun pumps.

https://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-GH2707-1250-Water/dp/B008UF9XBO

Ok those dripper should work with the pumps you have the difference will be the time you need to run them to get your runoff and that will change based on psi. No issue there.

The backflow you link will work i would put it at the output of the pump.

Jacks is a good one and wetting agent also a good idea.

I personally will never need to grow in bigger than 1 gal pots. So im with ya there.

A HUGE concern is if growing from clone or seed. I suggest only clone. 1 plant per sq ft. And flip like 1-2 weeks veg. Depending on the size of your rooted clones. Sounds about what you are going for.

Have a plan to deal with runoff?

In the future I'm going to do an auto top off with dosing pumps... gonna take some planning but I haven't got that aspect figured yet. Probably a ph controller with dosing pumps set to dispense 1 part dry nutes nutrients pre weighted out once the top off float kicks on but yeah... thats a ways away

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

Ok those dripper should work with the pumps you have the difference will be the time you need to run them to get your runoff and that will change based on psi. No issue there.

The backflow you link will work i would put it at the output of the pump.

Jacks is a good one and wetting agent also a good idea.

I personally will never need to grow in bigger than 1 gal pots. So im with ya there.

A HUGE concern is if growing from clone or seed. I suggest only clone. 1 plant per sq ft. And flip like 1-2 weeks veg. Depending on the size of your rooted clones. Sounds about what you are going for.

Have a plan to deal with runoff?

In the future I'm going to do an auto top off with dosing pumps... gonna take some planning but I haven't got that aspect figured yet. Probably a ph controller with dosing pumps set to dispense 1 part dry nutes nutrients pre weighted out once the top off float kicks on but yeah... thats a ways away

I bought a bunch of saucers and was gonna put my clay pebbles in em for the smart pots to sit on.
My rooms all have concrete floors with drains in em anyways. Noticed some guys just have em on the bare floor. Id figured the bottom needs room to drain.

I have 3-36 site cloners full of clones right now. Gonna try my luck in cloning in coco. Never had any luck in rockwool. Better in water or dirt. I bought a couple thousand of these

247Garden 100-Pack 3x4" Eco-Friendly Aeration Seedling Pots/Nursery Fabric Plant Grow Bags (25GSM 8x10cm Non-woven)

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Thought they would nice cloning in.

I have more aeroponic cloners lying around, some that I built. I can prob do a 1000 clones at a time in those. And yes ive used all of em at once before. Pain in the ass.

If I need to step up to 3 gal pots I can do that as i have a bunch of those as well. Veg for say 4 weeks instead. I'd have to top em and train em.

My plan was to have a full canopy with netting stretched across em and tied to the walls for support.

Another thing I am gonna do is run inline filters to help filter out any type of undissolved salts, sand, or whatever can plug em up.

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

One reason I abandoned soil for indoor gardening was because of pests like spider mites and fungas gnats. I never seen spider mites here where I'm at until I started growing inside using store bought soil. Never had fungas gnats either.

I've heard coco has some gnats so thought about using neem pellets and Sprinkle on top of the coco. Anyone else do this?

 

[Aqua Man]

One reason I abandoned soil for indoor gardening was because of pests like spider mites and fungas gnats. I never seen spider mites here where I'm at until I started growing inside using store bought soil. Never had fungas gnats either.

I've heard coco has some gnats so thought about using neem pellets and Sprinkle on top of the coco. Anyone else do this?

Canna coco certified pest free. Can use mosquito dunks (bti) every couple weeks to help prevent root pests. Fully organic as its a bacteria that the larvae eat and then die. Nematodes also a good option.

I'm not the guy to talk to about IPM but those are some ideas

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

Canna coco certified pest free. Can use mosquito dunks (bti) every couple weeks to help prevent root pests. Fully organic as its a bacteria that the larvae eat and then die. Nematodes also a good option.

I'm not the guy to talk to about IPM but those are some ideas

I've used the dunks before in my rdwc. First time using them I just threw them in the rez tank and the wafers never really dissolved just ended up floating around.
I ended up breaking them up in my hands, crumbling them up and still they didn't dissolve. Just floated around and ended up getting sucked up by the pumps. Ended up having to wash my buckets out because the crumbled wafers stuck to everything and eventually stopping my pumps up.

 

[StealthLED]

@Aqua Man are you still on 10 feeds a day in the 1gals? I'm also on 10 roughly every 1 an half hours lights on and my ec is climbing I've also dropped intake ec, I wondering if I should switch to every hour, just seems a lot though to me lol

 

[Anthem]

Was going to start a new thread on this but thought I'd put this is here seen as this thread is already about watering coco...

Was watching a video on jungle boys talking about very high ec levels. Two days ago I noticed a few of my plants out of my 19 DTW had a run off ec of 3.0 (these plants have been getting a little less run off to the rest because they are a week or two in front of the others so roots system probably bigger) of cause I panicked straight away and started putting a few liters of res nutes through them to bring the ec down to around feed level which was 1.7

After I'd done that I looked at the plants and thought why have the plants not 'told me' the ec was high in the coco from nute burn or whatever reason... In fact they look amazing, after watching them videos jungle boys build the ec up fairly slowly and don't let the the media go dry, they say this is what causes burns when they go dry? Also they say a ec of 3.0 is not a problem in coco?

It seems like the standard go to ec is about 1.4-1.8 this is what I stick to. they do say some strains will do best at 1.6 but some strains won't show full potential until a ec of 3.0+ is reached. So if I was seeing no sign of stress at these high ec run offs is that my plants saying they can handle more?

But then it got me thinking more, if my plants can handle more why is the ec building in the first place? My coco is always wet with little run off every water so salts can't build up from drying out so surely this is the plants saying we don't need all that so we're leaving it behind, but this must also be the same with this guys in their big commercial places, I follow a few guys on IG and nearly all are running ec way over 2.0 with no problems... Also if you look at Athens which a lot of these big guys use, Athens says never let you ec go more than 1 over base, so if you have a base ec of 3.0 and the run of is 3.8 this is fine, and this also seems to correspond with what the guys using it do.

Now obviously I understand these are in purposes built commercial grow rooms sticking to vpd and using co2, but why does that stop us from pushing our plants a little if they can handle it and we have a dialed in room?

What do you guys think?

Jungle Boys runs all of their grows in Rockwool Cubes from what I have seen and heard. Some time ago there was a thread here on THC Farmers talking about one of the farmers here on THC that went to work with Jungle Boys that use to post on here a lot. I want to say he grew on Coco mats and changed to Rockwool Blocks when he went joined Jungle Boys. Kind of hoping this might jog someone's memory. In the thread another farmer mentioned you really need a dry out period with the blocks so the plant can get oxygen so I am not completely sure the EC is correct. I am almost 100 percent confident they grow in Rockwool Cubes

 

[Aqua Man]

@Aqua Man are you still on 10 feeds a day in the 1gals? I'm also on 10 roughly every 1 an half hours lights on and my ec is climbing I've also dropped intake ec, I wondering if I should switch to every hour, just seems a lot though to me lol

14 now... every hr lights on right to lights out and 2 times at night... I dont thinkni will need to increase again. Im past stretch and week 5 almost 6i think so they will slow down in probably 2 weeks or so.

 

[Aqua Man]

Jungle Boys runs all of their grows in Rockwool Cubes from what I have seen and heard. Some time ago there was a thread here on THC Farmers talking about one of the farmers here on THC that went to work with Jungle Boys that use to post on here a lot. I want to say he grew on Coco mats and changed to Rockwool Blocks when he went joined Jungle Boys. Kind of hoping this might jog someone's memory. In the thread another farmer mentioned you really need a dry out period with the blocks so the plant can get oxygen so I am not completely sure the EC is correct. I am almost 100 percent confident they grow in Rockwool Cubes

Doesn't rung a bell bro

 

[StealthLED]

14 now... every hr lights on right to lights out and 2 times at night... I dont thinkni will need to increase again. Im past stretch and week 5 almost 6i think so they will slow down in probably 2 weeks or so.

Did you start to see ec increase is that why you went for more feedings? I'm at week 3 now so I'll push them from 10 to 12 feeds to see if the ec stops creeping up

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

14 now... every hr lights on right to lights out and 2 times at night... I dont thinkni will need to increase again. Im past stretch and week 5 almost 6i think so they will slow down in probably 2 weeks or so.

Are you gonna slow your feedings down toward week 8?

Or i should say flushing lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Are you gonna slow your feedings down toward week 8?

Or i should say flushing lol

Yeah probably around end of week 8 I'll flush and last day or 2 no feeding. But thats just to make the pots easy to get rid of. Then 48 hrs dark before chop.

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

Yeah probably around end of week 8 I'll flush and last day or 2 no feeding. But thats just to make the pots easy to get rid of. Then 48 hrs dark before chop.

On mine I thought about just poking a hole in the coco and planting the next batch in the same media. Just keep reusing the same coco over and over.

 

[Aqua Man]

On mine I thought about just poking a hole in the coco and planting the next batch in the same media. Just keep reusing the same coco over and over.

In my pots I think they will be pretty much a solid root mass.