HPS light superior vs current led tech?

[Anthem]

Those are not foxtails. Different strains have different flowers, it can go to extremes, google "feno trigo Cannabis" or "Dr. Grinspoon". You are badmouthing good growers work in a feeble attempt to lift yourself over everyone else.

I would not worry too much about @KenKenaf. He is just a troll probably from Trollitup or perhaps @Trixie or @Zill. @KenKenaf posts read about the same as these two.

 

[Moe.Red]

I was just thinking that a better question than "which is better" would be to ask "Which direction is the technology headed?"

More tech.

Wider more adjustable spectrums with advanced mixing including ePAR like uva and far red.

Not sure that is beneficial to the average grower but capitalism demands new models.

Fwiw led already exceeds hid or HPS in spectrum capabilities. You just have to pay a lot for that.

 

[MidwestToker]

It's been a long theory as to why Equatorial cultivars took 16 weeks or longer to complete flower as it's always 12/12 in the equatorial regions as the duration of red photons are less abundant their

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

I would not worry too much about @KenKenaf. He is just a troll probably from Trollitup or perhaps @Trixie or @Zill. @KenKenaf posts read about the same as these two.

Trixie is CreeperPark from ICMag, I recognize his setup in his profile pics

https://www.icmag.com/members/creeperpark.308918/

He has "Mentor" status there lol (kinda amusing this word always rings like BSDM stuff to me OMG) but is actually a source of broscience. Well, it's not bad, I mean I also had these times of heavy smoking where I mix stuff up or get these phantastic "creative" ideas that may seem rather silly seen through sober eyes. Like one time when I wanted to enrich my supersoil with MO and imbue it with "real life"and went out into the woods at night to collect a bag of topsoil, just threw it into the big growtent. Next day the whole room was full of all kinds of insects :| then I made videos how they battled each others XD just blatant nonsense LMAO To my surprise all of these just died, and I didn't even get any of the known evil hemp pests like spidermites, thrips or fungus gnats. None remained, just used Diatomacious Earth for 2 weeks. Tells you many lifeforms are very environmental dependant and indoor just can't replicate outdoor. It's just 2 different pair of shoes. Now that I think of actually some rainworms did survive several months, found them when recycling soil after harvest. But just 2 or 3....

 

[SSgrower]

I wasn't hip to ICmag or rollit up, this is the 1st. cannabis forum for me to explore. Why not "Mix" these lights and research, un mix, research. Or, Just Grow Fire!! SS

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

Because there is no perfect solution. Actually when one has a huge facility with a high ceiling, one can mount quite a number of different lamps together to arrive at a better spectrum. The lightcones overlap, and heat emissions aren't a big problem. But in a tent a HID may damage or negatively influence what diodes are doing, one needs it hot to function properly, the other the opposite. And then there is the spectral change accompanied when the tops grow towards the individual lamps. You can see this also fairly often with the NASA "blurples" when singe beams make it through a dense canopy - you then get these typical colorful spots at the floor, some red, blue, etc, just when leaves block off most diodes. So the only way to make it that the plant receives basically the same colour everywhere is using the same type of lamps/diodes. Actually that is not even true, as spectrum harshly discriminates with any hit leaf-incident, leaving only diffuse darkred and green, but that radiation is reduced to approx. 10% of what it originally was, and actually plants are used to that from outside nature. But monochromatic blue or red - direct light that still may have a high flux output retained - well, scientific measurements show that this isn't optimal from a number of perspectives. It still works, the plants can use any type of light, they would be feeble not to be able to do so, but yeah, it's not optimal.

 

[Edinburg]

Hps has it's good and bad points, it uses allot of energy and throw off allot of heat, as an led uses much less energy and throws off much less heat it's a trade off, since led came out you can buy an hps rig with bulbs and hood and all that very cheapley for a nice rig.

 

[harvesre84]

If you are talking efficiency, no. You can replace a 1000w hps with a 300w led.







So in that case you can get 3 led lights for less of a power cost and have 3 times the light.















Don't pay attention to the advertises power consumption of led lights. Most of them use an equivalency rating. Something that is 1000w in advertising only actually draws 200w.















From what I've seen, leds can grow some great stuff. 1/4 the price on your power bill, less heat, more par for the $.















What's nI'd have too agreeot to agree the 1000 watts suck power. New efficient leds I have seem to work better

 

[HerbalEdu]

Here's a little input.

I have been using a HPS 250 W for years and switched to SpiderFarmer SF2000 200 W few month ago.

Veg and Growth rate seem faster early on with the HPS.
Leaves are bigger and the plant produce more leaves stages faster with HPS than with LED
With the HPS i was vegging for 2-4 weeks most of the time 3 before switching to 12-12, now with the led i m vegging for 3-5 weeks most of the time 4.

In the end i find the buds to be slightly more dense and compact in average with the LED than with the HPS.

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

The LED has a steeper learning curve, it may get better, plus 200W LED put out a boatload more light than a 250W HPS (which is rather inefficient for the different HPS bulbs...). Then, the LEDs way more pronounced blue region may influence the plant to focus more on roots, and the HPS has more darkred which will expand leaves more.

 

[NotSure]

Appreciate the tip on heat generation makes me think to go for HPS during our very cold winter here at the coast. How do led grows generate heat in colder climates?

If you want LEDs that generate heat, buy California Lightworks brand. They make heat. I speak from experience.

 

[HerbalEdu]

The LED has a steeper learning curve, it may get better, plus 200W LED put out a boatload more light than a 250W HPS (which is rather inefficient for the different HPS bulbs...). Then, the LEDs way more pronounced blue region may influence the plant to focus more on roots, and the HPS has more darkred which will expand leaves more.

well that's just observation from 35 hps grows or so vs 4 led grows (2 growers with the exact same setup)

that's what the plant look like day 18 with the SF2000 200W, on there 4th and 5th stages of leaves

and that's what the plant usually look like day 18 with the HPS 250W, on their 6th 7th stages of leaves also noticeably bigger and taller overlaping much more to each others

the lack of blue in hps spectrum might explain the difference, only others difference could be that with the HPS i had too hot temperature 34°-35°C sometime even more in summer.

but i find it a tad bit weird that a LED with supposedly a better spectrum than HPS result in slower growth rate in average the first few weeks

On the other hand i also find that in average buds are slighty more dense and compact with LED than with HPS. And that my trichromes mature much better without heat stress.

I also did a grow the first 5th week with HPS (veg 3 flo 2) and switched to led on the 6th week (3rd week flowering) with wich i didn't notice any difference in remaining stretch, only difference is i think my bud were more dense and compact in average than with the HPS.

 

[Aqua Man]

well that's just observation from 35 hps grows or so vs 4 led grows (2 growers with the exact same setup)

that's what the plant look like day 18 with the SF2000 200W, on there 4th and 5th stages of leaves
View attachment 1338480
and that's what the plant usually look like day 18 with the HPS 250W, on their 6th 7th stages of leaves also noticeably bigger and taller overlaping much more to each others
View attachment 1338481

the lack of blue in hps spectrum might explain the difference, only others difference could be that with the HPS i had too hot temperature 34°-35°C sometime even more in summer.

but i find it a tad bit weird that a LED with supposedly a better spectrum than HPS result in slower growth rate in average the first few weeks

On the other hand i also find that in average buds are slighty more dense and compact with LED than with HPS. And that my trichromes mature much better without heat stress.

I also did a grow the first 5th week with HPS (veg 3 flo 2) and switched to led on the 6th week (3rd week flowering) with wich i didn't notice any difference in remaining stretch, only difference is i think my bud were more dense and compact in average than with the HPS.

The environmental needs and even the nutrient needs change with LED. Especially plant temps and that makes a lot of difference.

Also may i ask what LED you are using? The same distances ad eachother?

 

[HerbalEdu]

The environmental needs and even the nutrient needs change with LED. Especially plant temps and that makes a lot of difference.

Also may i ask what LED you are using? The same distances ad eachother?

spiderfamer sf2000 200w

first grow with it i switched from hps to led 3rd flowering weeks, @100% @25 cm from the plants tops, didn't notice any signifiant differences with last two week of stretch, and in the end i think my bud were slighty more dense and compact in average over the whole plant than with the HPS.

second grow i started with the led @100% @80 cm from plant (my hps 250w routine was @70cm) letting the plant grow without moving the lamp until distance between led and plants tops become smaller than 25cm

third grow i started with the led @85cm @50% first week and half then switched to 75% on going

fourth grow is from my padawan @80cm @60% for 1 week then @100cm @60% for 3 week then 80% @70cm for two first week of flo, then 100% @30cm from plant top

for the three last grow even with different dimming set up we didn't really notice some difference with growth rate between led grows, amount of leaves stage produced in said amount of days but there still the difference with the HPS, the plants seem to produce more leaves stage faster than with LED.

the fact is with hps i was vegging depending strain 2-4 weeks most of the time 3 before 12/12 flip
and now with the LED so far all plant needed 4 weeks before being ready for 12/12 flip

and my concern is gr/w/m²/"weeks spent veg+flo" one week more before harvest do impact this ratio.

also out of 3 grow and half so far with LED we already had a nice dispersion in plant growth in term of height depending strain reaching in the end of flowering 50cm to 1m20 depending strains and phenotypes wich is the same dispersion we had with the HPS, but veg seem slower with led than with hps

also i m wondering a lot on growdiaries.com and i always found that plant from other people with led were smaller than mine under hps at the same stage, not much sometime but still noticeably enough

 

[HerbalEdu]

oh and i also measured the ppfd with the photone app, with wich i find similar value with the par map provided by spiderfamer for various height set up of the lamp

so with the hps i had a ppfd around 150-200 on start up depending plants tops
and with led @80cm @100% around 200-250
with led @85cm @50% around 100-150

i didn't change my feeding routine, but my plants seem as happy with the led as they used to be with the hps.

 

[Aqua Man]

spiderfamer sf2000 200w

first grow with it i switched from hps to led 3rd flowering weeks, @100% @25 cm from the plants tops, didn't notice any signifiant differences with last two week of stretch, and in the end i think my bud were slighty more dense and compact in average over the whole plant than with the HPS.

second grow i started with the led @100% @80 cm from plant (my hps 250w routine was @70cm) letting the plant grow without moving the lamp until distance between led and plants tops become smaller than 25cm

third grow i started with the led @85cm @50% first week and half then switched to 75% on going

fourth grow is from my padawan @80cm @60% for 1 week then @100cm @60% for 3 week then 80% @70cm for two first week of flo, then 100% @30cm from plant top

for the three last grow even with different dimming set up we didn't really notice some difference with growth rate between led grows, amount of leaves stage produced in said amount of days but there still the difference with the HPS, the plants seem to produce more leaves stage faster than with LED.

the fact is with hps i was vegging depending strain 2-4 weeks most of the time 3 before 12/12 flip
and now with the LED so far all plant needed 4 weeks before being ready for 12/12 flip

and my concern is gr/w/m²/"weeks spent veg+flo" one week more before harvest do impact this ratio.

also out of 3 grow and half so far with LED we already had a nice dispersion in plant growth in term of height depending strain reaching in the end of flowering 50cm to 1m20 depending strains and phenotypes wich is the same dispersion we had with the HPS, but veg seem slower with led than with hps

also i m wondering a lot on growdiaries.com and i always found that plant from other people with led were smaller than mine under hps at the same stage, not much sometime but still noticeably enough

Ok so i would start by checking the difference in plant temps… spectral influence is another consideration as plant height, width, internode spacing etc can all be influenced by spectrum. You also cannot really lump LED in all together as there is quite a range of spectral options.

I have no doubt your seeing what you are… the reasons behind it imo are not as simple as HOS vs LED.

like i say I’d start by getting plant temps right and work from there. Even nutrient demand changes based on spectrum

 

[Aqua Man]

oh and i also measured the ppfd with the photone app, with wich i find similar value with the par map provided by spiderfamer for various height set up of the lamp

so with the hps i had a ppfd around 150-200 on start up depending plants tops
and with led @80cm @100% around 200-250
with led @85cm @50% around 100-150

i didn't change my feeding routine, but my plants seem as happy with the led as they used to be with the hps.

You can use the same setting on the app to measure ppfd. There are conversion ratios to take into account. A good example is a blurple will be close to 10x the ppfd as a full spectrum LED. The app uses lux and a conversion factor to convert to ppfd

 

[HerbalEdu]

yeah i still have the android beta version of photone app where all set up for various type of light (like a dozen or so) are available for free, i know for example the i phone version don't have various light type set up available for free.

 

[Aqua Man]

yeah i still have the android beta version of photone app where all set up for various type of light (like a dozen or so) are available for free, i know for example the i phone version don't have various light type set up available for free.

Yeah… i would put to much into the ppfd rating of it without the paid version. A lix app and using a conversion like this is better if using LED and free version.

Convert Lux to PPFD - Online Calculator | Waveform Lighting

Online calculator to convert illuminance (lux) to PPFD (micromoles per second per meter squared).

www.waveformlighting.com

 

[hydrodreams]

@HerbalEdu: And what were yields in comparison?