If its not Organic! 100% its just any other drug

[MIMedGrower]

They basically have 3 plots with the same soil containing "chemical" fertilizers. Then to one, they add manure. To another they add x2 manure. To the control (the plot they compare the manure having plots to) they give no manure. All the plots, even the organic manure having ones are using "chemical" fertilizers.

A plant given more nutrients will show better growth, yes....

The manure has low levels of nutrients. But high bio diversity. They are showing that adding micro life to the soil increased yield but too much was not better.

You are too caught up in trying to disprove to have a discussion about this.

There is some evidence here and other tests that the breakdown of nutrients by micro life rather than direct chemical uptake may have more benefits to the plant.

I still think its more diverse forms of nutrients that give the benefit.

 

[BigCube]

The manure has low levels of nutrients. But high bio diversity. They are showing that adding micro life to the soil increased yield but too much was not better.

You are too caught up in trying to disprove to have a discussion about this.

There is some evidence here and other tests that the breakdown of nutrients by micro life rather than direct chemical uptake may have more benefits to the plant.

I still think its more diverse forms of nutrients that give the benefit.

Without a control group also getting the equivalent in non organic nutrients, none of the growth or yield can be compared to non organic methods.

Remember, this was offered as proof of organics superiority over non organic. I'm just disproving this study says that in any way.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Without a control group also getting the equivalent in non organic nutrients, none of the growth or yield can be compared to non organic methods.

Remember, this was offered as proof of organics superiority over non organic. I'm just disproving this study says that in any way.

I never said it did. I said it showed biodiversity may help.

Everything has plusses and minuses. Either/ or discussions are pointless.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Without a control group also getting the equivalent in non organic nutrients, none of the growth or yield can be compared to non organic methods.

Remember, this was offered as proof of organics superiority over non organic. I'm just disproving this study says that in any way.

I'm not taking a stand on which is better since both methods have their merits. I believe that nutrient availability really is the key here. If the plant can't use it, it doesn't matter what type of nutrients it is.

Where I ran into issues earlier with one previous poster is he kept insisting he was right based on the yellowing pages of a book written most likely well before he was born. It was clear to me that the book was opinion-based and pushing an agenda. I asked more than once what a "bastard protein" or an "inferior protein" is. I still don't know what the book author really meant by that. I'm college educated. I took a lot of biology and chemistry back in those days. I've never in my life seen a "bastard protein," and I have seen a lot of things under a microscope in various biology labs ... including stranded DNA, the building blocks of protein.

I actually can get behind an well done organic grow. I won't be told it's superior because so and so says so. I guess in a previous life I must have been from Missouri because when people make unsupported claims, my instinct is to say

"SHOW ME" proof and yes, like BigCube said, to be an unbiased study, there needs to be a side by side comparison with all environmental controls identical with only nutrients being different. Those are the studies I would like to see.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I'm not taking a stand on which is better since both methods have their merits. I believe that nutrient availability really is the key here. If the plant can't use it, it doesn't matter what type of nutrients it is.

Where I ran into issues earlier with one previous poster is he kept insisting he was right based on the yellowing pages of a book written most likely well before he was born. It was clear to me that the book was opinion-based and pushing an agenda. I asked more than once what a "bastard protein" or an "inferior protein" is. I still don't know what the book author really meant by that. I'm college educated. I took a lot of biology and chemistry back in those days. I've never in my life seen a "bastard protein," and I have seen a lot of things under a microscope in various biology labs ... including stranded DNA, the building blocks of protein.

I actually can get behind an well done organic grow. I won't be told it's superior because so and so says so. I guess in a previous life I must have been from Missouri because when people make unsupported claims, my instinct is to say

"SHOW ME" proof and yes, like BigCube said, to be an unbiased study, there needs to be a side by side comparison with all environmental controls identical with only nutrients being different. Those are the studies I would like to see.

There is one that showed increased flavanoids in the only organic plants vs chemical salts only. I would have to search again for it.

But im waiting for weed trials. Our plant doesnt really respond like fruits or vegetables.

 

[BigCube]

I never said it did. I said it showed biodiversity may help.

Everything has plusses and minuses. Either/ or discussions are pointless.

Well i love to hate being devils advocate but here is a test on chile peppers that clearly showed adding organic input increased the growth rate and yield.

But i still want to know what it does for our plant. I have been growing in an organic base and fertilizing supplementary in flower for years. Now im switching to promix hp and feeding pure blend pro for all nutrients. Will it be that different? If I try jacks nutes only will it be that different?

No one could tell reliably 3 or 4 years ago but im a better grower now.

Impact of Organic Manure on Growth, Nutrient Content and Yield of Chilli Pepper under Various Temperature Environments

Expected climatic changes likely elicit serious challenges for crop production. Therefore, it is indispensable to investigate the response of crop growth parameters and yield under temperature variability environments. The current experiment on chilli ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I dont have any problem with "maybe it has some benefits" but that's a far cry from "increased growth rates and yields".

Discussion is great I just read the study and say what it says.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

There is one that showed increased flavanoids in the only organic plants vs chemical salts only. I would have to search again for it.

But im waiting for weed trials. Our plant doesnt really respond like fruits or vegetables.

True, and I believe that to a point. I can see different grow methods, different grow medium, and other things along that line altering taste profiles, but I think that would be subtle.

Here's the kicker ... I believe all things being equal as far as the plants getting the nutrients and light they need ... genetics is the single biggest indicator as to how the plants will profile.

 

[BigCube]

"SHOW ME" proof and yes, like BigCube said, to be an unbiased study, there needs to be a side by side comparison with all environmental controls identical with only nutrients being different. Those are the studies I would like to see.

They have been done, I have to go to bed right now. But look in to it a bit if you care to. I'll post more tomorrow that's for sure

 

[bunkerking]

There is one that showed increased flavanoids in the only organic plants vs chemical salts only. I would have to search again for it.

But im waiting for weed trials. Our plant doesnt really respond like fruits or vegetables.

Calcium phosphate isnt really common in salt programs. Its got a big part to do with oil production if i recall. Calcium that is.

just to toss a wrench into the convo.

 

[bunkerking]

Not that it means one is better or another. Yah we really just need more studies on cannabis. They will happen within time.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

They have been done, I have to go to bed right now. But look in to it a bit if you care to. I'll post more tomorrow that's for sure

I know they have been done, just not sure how much of these studies pertain to weed. Some things would transcend from one type of plant to another. Others would not. I do believe there is merit to organics ... that's not been my point at any time during this discussion.

This is actually becoming a good one ... sleep well friend.

 

[bunkerking]

I know they have been done, just not sure how much of these studies pertain to weed. Some things would transcend from one type of plant to another. Others would not. I do believe there is merit to organics ... that's not been my point at any time during this discussion.

This is actually becoming a good one ... sleep well friend.

now that we are all talking and not just yelling? si si.

 

[MIMedGrower]

now that we are all talking and not just yelling? si si.

WHOSE YELLING?!?!?!?!

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

now that we are all talking and not just yelling? si si.

My feathers were never ruffled ... I'm too old to allow someone who has not been alive long enough to know better yet to get under my skin. It's not worth it. That guy seems to have stopped posting.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

WHOSE YELLING?!?!?!?!

Ehh I can't hear you .... LOL

 

[BigCube]

Calcium phosphate isnt really common in salt programs. Its got a big part to do with oil production if i recall. Calcium that is.

just to toss a wrench into the convo.

Lots of people use calmag, most 3 part nutrients have decent calcium.

I know they have been done, just not sure how much of these studies pertain to weed. Some things would transcend from one type of plant to another. Others would not. I do believe there is merit to organics ... that's not been my point at any time during this discussion.

This is actually becoming a good one ... sleep well friend.

You too man. At least the studies we want are probably happening now. So one day we will find out.

Ok bed now

 

[bunkerking]

Lots of people use calmag, most 3 part nutrients have decent calcium.

You too man. At least the studies we want are probably happening now. So one day we will find out.

Ok bed now

True but cal phosphate isnt cal nitrate. Is all I will say there.

 

[CannasaurusR]

What is more detrimental?
Citation needed please.

Green revolution, super hybrids, chemical fertilization and modern pesticide use all result in a negative effect on the soil biosphere, is what I am generalizing. The soil in my garden, the biodiversity of my yard, and the fruit, veggies and flowers it produces are better for any living creature as compared to being raised in the middle of a pick your own raspberry farm. That needs no citation, nor can it be quantified. That is certified truth, but alas, not stientific conclusion.

 

[bunkerking]

I love the wild comparisons organic people make to justify their feelings lol. Duh something left in a field unattended won't produce as well.

 

[TimeLine]

I'm not taking a stand on which is better since both methods have their merits. I believe that nutrient availability really is the key here. If the plant can't use it, it doesn't matter what type of nutrients it is.

Where I ran into issues earlier with one previous poster is he kept insisting he was right based on the yellowing pages of a book written most likely well before he was born. It was clear to me that the book was opinion-based and pushing an agenda. I asked more than once what a "bastard protein" or an "inferior protein" is. I still don't know what the book author really meant by that. I'm college educated. I took a lot of biology and chemistry back in those days. I've never in my life seen a "bastard protein," and I have seen a lot of things under a microscope in various biology labs ... including stranded DNA, the building blocks of protein.

I actually can get behind an well done organic grow. I won't be told it's superior because so and so says so. I guess in a previous life I must have been from Missouri because when people make unsupported claims, my instinct is to say

"SHOW ME" proof and yes, like BigCube said, to be an unbiased study, there needs to be a side by side comparison with all environmental controls identical with only nutrients being different. Those are the studies I would like to see.

w/o taking a stance on the 2 choices being debating or the merit of the definitions placed on said choices
I offer a new stance and it would be the placebo effect
If one feels they are doing the "best/right" thing then the affect of that could outweigh the scientific data/anecdotal accounts presented previously in this thread

In conclusion
If it feels good/right...then it is good/right...at least in the eye of the beholder..perceptions create realities