Just checking but you run this the whole cycle from day 1 but just diluted at the start?
.5 bloosom booster
2.5 hydro
2.13 cal nitrate
.2 cacl2
.095 MKP
.55 k2S04
.71 ebsom salts
.005 MOST

then
.1g MAP
1.07MKP FORMULA FOR MOAB
but what does this mean?
Then in weeks 2, 7,8 you can cut the all the base by half and use homemade MOAB.

El Cerebro said:

any speculation on a generally safe elemental ceiling for chloride?

Click to expand...

Guess until someone comes up with something more definitive we go off of the .28 fatman suggested to Cap off of his Jacks recipe, it's basically treated as a trace from literature im reading so i'd cap it at that. I'd like to ask fatman about the follier application,,my recepie for follier is to include some Borax (2%) which I never did. But now I'm wondering if it's because the person who made it up was using CaCl2 in the REz and losing some Boron?

I'm just getting ready to order.
Also any tweeks please let me know, A big thankyou because I was going run an 8 light garden
with advanced nutrients.

El Cerebro said:

any speculation on a generally safe elemental ceiling for chloride?

Click to expand...

Folier CaCl2 1.17g / 946.35 ml + Na2B407 .03grams = 2.75 ms /143 ppm NaCl measure

Above is the recipe that was given to me by a relative of mine and mentor, he based it upon university data. It is 2% Na2B407 (borox) to CaCl2. I’ve provided below a link to Jr peters and the information on NaCl2 from their blog, they suggest 200 ppm (assuming NaCl or Kci), since it’s higher ive always gone with this recepie w/o the Borox. I’ve never used the boron when I’ve foliered because I always felt there was enough boron in my solution, but he stated why the boron was there, and I can’t quite recite exactly what he said in Chemistry terms (perhaps squiggly can elaborate) but along the lines Cacl2 antagonizes the boron.

So by adding it to the Cacl2 what is uptaken by the roots in solution will not be an issue, folier would not effect anything in solution as far as the roots are concerned (rhizosphere). Even if so, what would be un- available will be replaced by boron in the folier.. It aslso had something to do with the nitrogen translocation from the leaf to the trunk and roots. He stated also that at 2% it’s not an issue in plants that are less tolerant to both boron and Cacl as studies for other plants have gone up to 6% CaCl2 and 3% boron with no difference in results.

So I guess I’ll give it a try with the boron next time (be careful with boron it is toxic as well to plants) I need to boost the Calcium, which may be soon with a few new uncharted strains. So I'll be leaving out Cacl2 in my solution, I like that also as a diagnosis tool, if It looks like a ca deficiency and it doesn't correct I know it' isn't a Calcium issue.

Jr peters; Source

Calcium Chloride, CaCl2, is hygroscopic; it rapidly absorbs water and is used to dry gases by passing them through it. Calcium chloride is commercially available usually as the dihydrate, CaCl2·2H2O; it is used to melt ice on roads, to control dust, in brines for refrigeration, a preservative in foods and as a foliar spray for delivering the nutrient Ca to plants. It is also used in the monohydrate and hexahydrate forms.
Calcium Chloride Dihydrate – can be powder or crystal form and should be technical grade for Foliar application
The chemical formula is CaCl2.2H2O It has 2 waters associated with it and it is ideally having 75.5% Calcium Chloride with water as shown below:
CaCl2.2H2O
Ca(40) + Cl2(71) + 2H2O(36) make % of CaCl2 in it as 36/(40+71+36) = 75.51%
The % Ca in the Dihydrate form is 27% Ca in order to make a solution to deliver Ca as a nutrient to plants follow the directions below:
· Mix a water solution containing 200 – 400 ppm calcium from calcium chloride and add a spreader-sticker known to be safe on (won’t burn) poinsettia leaves or bracts.
· Use a clean sprayer that has not been used for herbicides or other toxic substances.
· Apply this mixture as a fine, low pressure mist, and apply only enough to wet the leaves or bracts without run-off. This is frequently referred to as ‘spray to glisten’.
· Weekly applications seem to be frequent enough to provide the needed calcium for rapidly expanding leaves or bracts. Applications should begin at the time of first color and can continue to pollen-shed.
· Practice foliar feeding of calcium on only a few plants before spraying the entire crop. If spray injury is going to occur, it should be evident in 3 to 4 days.
Dilution Table to Achieve 324 ppm Calcium Solution
Amount of Final Spray Solution Calcium Chloride DihydrateCaCl2 2H2O (~27% Ca)
100 gallon 1 lb.
25 gallon 4 oz.
3 gallon ½ oz.
Approximate ppm Ca 324 ppm

Capulator said:

I am running this at around 80% and plants
are really loving it. Ill take some pics later to post up here.

Click to expand...

Are you currently still running this formula?

cheaplastic said:

Are you currently still running this formula?

Click to expand...

I have been running the 3-2-1 for the most part currently. I run that at 75% for veg, and 50% for new rooted cuts. Been lazy and not so down for tweaking things at the moment. Trying to keep it simple. But the 3-2-1 is crushing it.

I also am using use silica at 2-4 ml / gal.

plants look like this with 3-2-1:

azmmjadvocates said:

Folier CaCl2 1.17g / 946.35 ml + Na2B407 .03grams = 2.75 ms /143 ppm NaCl measure

Above is the recipe that was given to me by a relative of mine and mentor, he based it upon university data. It is 2% Na2B407 (borox) to CaCl2. I’ve provided below a link to Jr peters and the information on NaCl2 from their blog, they suggest 200 ppm (assuming NaCl or Kci), since it’s higher ive always gone with this recepie w/o the Borox. I’ve never used the boron when I’ve foliered because I always felt there was enough boron in my solution, but he stated why the boron was there, and I can’t quite recite exactly what he said in Chemistry terms (perhaps squiggly can elaborate) but along the lines Cacl2 antagonizes the boron.

So by adding it to the Cacl2 what is uptaken by the roots in solution will not be an issue, folier would not effect anything in solution as far as the roots are concerned (rhizosphere). Even if so, what would be un- available will be replaced by boron in the folier.. It aslso had something to do with the nitrogen translocation from the leaf to the trunk and roots. He stated also that at 2% it’s not an issue in plants that are less tolerant to both boron and Cacl as studies for other plants have gone up to 6% CaCl2 and 3% boron with no difference in results.

So I guess I’ll give it a try with the boron next time (be careful with boron it is toxic as well to plants) I need to boost the Calcium, which may be soon with a few new uncharted strains. So I'll be leaving out Cacl2 in my solution, I like that also as a diagnosis tool, if It looks like a ca deficiency and it doesn't correct I know it' isn't a Calcium issue.

Jr peters; Source

Calcium Chloride, CaCl2, is hygroscopic; it rapidly absorbs water and is used to dry gases by passing them through it. Calcium chloride is commercially available usually as the dihydrate, CaCl2·2H2O; it is used to melt ice on roads, to control dust, in brines for refrigeration, a preservative in foods and as a foliar spray for delivering the nutrient Ca to plants. It is also used in the monohydrate and hexahydrate forms.
Calcium Chloride Dihydrate – can be powder or crystal form and should be technical grade for Foliar application
The chemical formula is CaCl2.2H2O It has 2 waters associated with it and it is ideally having 75.5% Calcium Chloride with water as shown below:
CaCl2.2H2O
Ca(40) + Cl2(71) + 2H2O(36) make % of CaCl2 in it as 36/(40+71+36) = 75.51%
The % Ca in the Dihydrate form is 27% Ca in order to make a solution to deliver Ca as a nutrient to plants follow the directions below:
· Mix a water solution containing 200 – 400 ppm calcium from calcium chloride and add a spreader-sticker known to be safe on (won’t burn) poinsettia leaves or bracts.
· Use a clean sprayer that has not been used for herbicides or other toxic substances.
· Apply this mixture as a fine, low pressure mist, and apply only enough to wet the leaves or bracts without run-off. This is frequently referred to as ‘spray to glisten’.
· Weekly applications seem to be frequent enough to provide the needed calcium for rapidly expanding leaves or bracts. Applications should begin at the time of first color and can continue to pollen-shed.
· Practice foliar feeding of calcium on only a few plants before spraying the entire crop. If spray injury is going to occur, it should be evident in 3 to 4 days.
Dilution Table to Achieve 324 ppm Calcium Solution
Amount of Final Spray Solution Calcium Chloride DihydrateCaCl2 2H2O (~27% Ca)
100 gallon 1 lb.
25 gallon 4 oz.
3 gallon ½ oz.
Approximate ppm Ca 324 ppm

Click to expand...

I use Ca25 for this. It's very good.

juggernaut said:

Just checking but you run this the whole cycle from day 1 but just diluted at the start?
.5 bloosom booster
2.5 hydro
2.13 cal nitrate
.2 cacl2
.095 MKP
.55 k2S04
.71 ebsom salts
.005 MOST

then
.1g MAP
1.07MKP FORMULA FOR MOAB
but what does this mean?
Then in weeks 2, 7,8 you can cut the all the base by half and use homemade MOAB.

Click to expand...

the first part is the general bloom formula that I would be using from the end of stretch to the end.

The MOAB is a bloom booster. When you use this you cut all base nutes by half. MOAB suggests using at weeks 7 and 8 on a 9 week strain. Also, some people use it at week 2. I don't. Only 6 and 7 or 7 and 8 dependign on the strain.

Capulator said:

I have been running the 3-2-1 for the most part currently. I run that at 75% for veg, and 50% for new rooted cuts. Been lazy and not so down for tweaking things at the moment. Trying to keep it simple. But the 3-2-1 is crushing it.

I also am using use silica at 2-4 ml / gal.

plants look like this with 3-2-1: View attachment 283543

Click to expand...

I have to agree. I've tried a couple of combinations with Jack's and all worked well but nothing like the 3-2-1 combination. It's so simple and the results are really outstanding. I find it hard to to want to variate. I use basically the same percentages as yourself, 80% for veg, 50% for clones. It's a great combo for adding supplements such as Sea Green and compost tea. I'm currently considering adding Aptus to the program. Great thread.

pugliese63 said:

I have to agree. I've tried a couple of combinations with Jack's and all worked well but nothing like the 3-2-1 combination. It's so simple and the results are really outstanding. I find it hard to to want to variate. I use basically the same percentages as yourself, 80% for veg, 50% for clones. It's a great combo for adding supplements such as Sea Green and compost tea. I'm currently considering adding Aptus to the program. Great thread.

Click to expand...

I used aptus with jacks. It was alright but I am not sure worth the money. I need to do a side by side to be sure.

Cap, when you run the 3-2-1 is it with chow mix or a higher % coco mix??

Also, what are the actual ppm for your 3-2-1?? (sorry if I missed it earlier) FWIW, I've been running a 3-1-4 in Sunshine #4 and its not working as good as 3-1-2.

lex0415 said:

Cap, when you run the 3-2-1 is it with chow mix or a higher % coco mix??

Also, what are the actual ppm for your 3-2-1?? (sorry if I missed it earlier) FWIW, I've been running a 3-1-4 in Sunshine #4 and its not working as good as 3-1-2.

Click to expand...

comes out to around 1.8 EC

this is with 50/50 coco (fine) and hydroton, but there are two plants in there just peat and perlite and they are doing just as well.

Capulator said:

comes out to around 1.8 EC

this is with 50/50 coco (fine) and hydroton, but there are two plants in there just peat and perlite and they are doing just as well.

Click to expand...

Thanks, .7 scale??

So your running 3-2-1 with peat, thats interesting.

P.S. Garden looks great by the way. good luck

Capulator said:

I used aptus with jacks. It was alright but I am not sure worth the money. I need to do a side by side to be sure.

Click to expand...

Yea, the Aptus is quite costly. Right now I'm getting ready to use Sea Green and your bennies this run. I think your packs will show more visible results in the way overall health than anything other supplement. Really looking forward to incorporating this into my program.

I grow in 4x4 beds and like yourself was considering running one bed using Aptus to see if the benefits were worth the cost. I've read some good reports. I honestly feel that unless every parameter in the garden is at its peak (ie. climate, cleanliness, Co2, pest control, etc.) the true benefits and results of supplements like Aptus or Sea Green are not as perceivable. It's obvious you keep ideal conditions since your plants always look great. I'll be interested to hear the results if you do a side by side.

lex0415 said:

Thanks, .7 scale??

So your running 3-2-1 with peat, thats interesting.

P.S. Garden looks great by the way. good luck

Click to expand...

EC is universal. No scale. On a .5 scale it would be 900ppm.

Capulator said:

EC is universal. No scale. On a .5 scale it would be 900ppm.

Click to expand...

Thats what I meant lol, thanks

Im Curious Cap

What is the HIghest PPM you have gone in flower with like a OG Kush ? Im at 1000 and they still look pretty hungry. Temps are 80% and and humid at 55% and they have co2 so they are being pushed. Before I bump the PPMs to high I was wondering what PPMS you guys using 3-2-1 feeding hungry strains are goin?

My White strawberrys look fine with the 900-1000 but the OGs are very hungry looking. Im thinking maybe 1200? Dont want to mess with Ratios yet by adding to much other stuff im barely getting on this jacks thing.

I've never grown OG Kush, but I heard they are Ca-Mg whores. Or maybe it was just Mg whores, I forgot.

oh yea they are a cal mag whore but if i add just cal mag I will throw off the ratios. Im just gonna increase PPMs to 1200 and go from there. I was just hoping that someone that has fed OGs with Jacks in a sealed enviroment and Co2 could share what ppms they use.

Ive grown this og for a while but used lucas with Epsom Salt and had no problems but i was at 1300 PPM. I think thats too high looking back but the plants looked fine at the time. They did taste a little harsh though after 14 day flush.

First post in this great (but long-assed) thread...
I've been working with the basic 3/2/1 formula for around 6 mos with decent results. Still need to do some dialing in on strains and relative to veg/flower ratios as well, but all in all, glad I went this route. I do peat/pearlite soft pot, dousing, with vertical scrog, as a baseline grow setup.

My first question relates to how I currently premix; I create a "100x" gallon of Jacks and a "100x" CalNit and I dilute them differently so that they are at 3/2, so that I then use either 20 or 30Ml shots of each that go into a gallon of water (20ml@ hits around 1.2EC/600ppm, 30 is ~1.8EC/900ppm with "adjuncts"). I use about 1/2gm Epsom, 5ml of Silica Blast (Botanicare) and typically around 1/2gm of Citric Acid to lower pH. I also premix my Epsom and Citric Acid so that right now, a 1/2gm=5ml liquid).
So - with that in mind - which "adjuncts" could be mixed with which concentrates in advance without causing anything to drop out of suspension? Based on some reading, it appears the Citric Acid is a non issue; it could be mixed into either (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong). What about the Epsom and the Silica Blast?
I'd like to really get it down to a true "2 part" system both for time sake as well as when I have less technical helpers covering for me now and then :-)

Thanks!