Need some help! Can't figure it out

[Glomus]

Yeah i see what youre saying. I have maybe 30% perlight in the mix. I feel like the top is saturated but the sides and below are bone dry. So worried that im not actually getting water to the roots below and causing the soil to dry out to a point where the roots die too. I have 2 analog moisture probes, both reading under halfway to dry on each plant. So from what i have been advised through out. My guess is that the plant is too wet on transfer and maybe because the soil tension hasnt broken and the plant is not drying out inside? I am not sure, seems a lil farfetched...

But yeah getting the temp higher in the day will help a lot. I feel like the temp has a role to play in the microbiome too. Do you use fish hydrolysate?

 

[Glomus]

Check this new Bacteria inoculation being R&D'd from the boys over here in Humbolt

 

[TSD]

I personally hated fabric pots because I couldn't get the watering right. If the top is moist but the bottom is dry, that probably means you're not watering enough when you water. If they have become hydrophobic, you need to water small amount till they're saturated or let them draw water up from a bottom tray or bin... just once, then resume normal watering from the top the next time. The thing with fabric is that the outer edges dry first and pull away from the pot, then when you water, it runs down the sides, making you think you've saturated when there could still be a big dry hydrophobic chunk of soil in the middle... this is what I found when I cut off my pots and put my plants in the ground last year when I attempted using 15 gal fabric outdoors... do not recommend. They're good once you get down how they operate. I just use regular nursery pots full of drilled holes all up the sides... hillbilly airpots. poke your meter in both the top third and bottom third where the water table sits.

 

[Glomus]

I personally hated fabric pots because I couldn't get the watering right. If the top is moist but the bottom is dry, that probably means you're not watering enough when you water. If they have become hydrophobic, you need to water small amount till they're saturated or let them draw water up from a bottom tray or bin... just once, then resume normal watering from the top the next time. The thing with fabric is that the outer edges dry first and pull away from the pot, then when you water, it runs down the sides, making you think you've saturated when there could still be a big dry hydrophobic chunk of soil in the middle... this is what I found when I cut off my pots and put my plants in the ground last year when I attempted using 15 gal fabric outdoors... do not recommend. They're good once you get down how they operate. I just use regular nursery pots full of drilled holes all up the sides... hillbilly airpots. poke your meter in both the top third and bottom third where the water table sits.

I mean you could just use 5 gallon buckets. But I like the fabric pots. It prunes the roots once they grow into them, and creates a huge root mass in a smaller area. You can grow bigger plants that in a smaller pot and with less soil. I feel like doing 100-300 fabric pots out doors is kind of dumb cuz it’s doesn’t really work the same way like that.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

No you can use things like Great White as a foliar spray for disease remediation. It is true that the earlier you inoculate the better but established plants definitely benefit from root inoculation but I would not inoculate during flower, I know people do but its more advanced and for when you are doing a top dress and trying to get more root stimulation on the surface on the soil medium. You don't want to use Great White as a microbe feeding "tea" because it's designed to suppress specific microbes which may compete with or get in the way of the Mycorrhizae actually germinating and infecting the roots. Thats why it can be used as a foliar for disease on the foliage. I can also do this if you have a root rot issue. I personally don't apply a high microbial tea to my soil after inoculation because I already have the microbes I want in there and I just keep feeding them. Also adding those high population of Microbes eats away at the Glomalin in the soil. The soil already has a balance it likes you just need to feed that.

Also, transplanting out of smart pot is not something I would recommend.

Exactly, which is why I suggested a few other products that are not innoculants. Instead, they are intended as teas or top dressing or soil mix. The teas can be used through flowering without any harm.

The transplant may help just because I believe there's a bit of root rot involved. . Flowering plants don't like it, but would probably be better than not doing anything at all if the problem continues. This is more of a last resort measure.

If you go back and look at how the leaves were in the beginning. They were arching downward. Wilted plants due to being thirsty don't have swollen leaf veins and they droop down more like there's a hinge at the stem. I haven't seen that in any of his pictures yet. The droop is different between the two.

Of course whether or not to water can be easily determined with a $10 moisture meter. We have several and my wife uses them all the time. They take the guess work out of this.

Surfactants that contain yucca are the best ones. I have a bottle of Sledge Hammer. It's marketed as a flushing agent but what its yucca extract. Dish soap will work, but a natural product is better. Again, dish soap is better than nothing and only as a last resort.

Yeah i see what youre saying. I have maybe 30% perlight in the mix. I feel like the top is saturated but the sides and below are bone dry. So worried that im not actually getting water to the roots below and causing the soil to dry out to a point where the roots die too. I have 2 analog moisture probes, both reading under halfway to dry on each plant. So from what i have been advised through out. My guess is that the plant is too wet on transfer and maybe because the soil tension hasnt broken and the plant is not drying out inside? I am not sure, seems a lil farfetched...

I'd be listening to the moisture meter unless you find out that the soil in the bottom 3rd is drier than the top 2/3rds. If you're using fabric pots just poke a small hole with a screwdriver and measure in the bottom 3rd area. You'll know your answer and can respond accordingly. Yes, over dry at the bottom is a problem but I'll be surprised if its the problem you're having.

 

[Namder]

Hello guys, thanks for all the comments. Most likely why they are still all alive lol

Look a bit better perhaps. I have reset my carbon fan to half way insyead of zero like the displaynis showing. All reading very dry now. But the leaves look so plump.

They are 3 king gelatos and and one CBD kush

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Hello guys, thanks for all the comments. Most likely why they are still all alive lol

Look a bit better perhaps. I have reset my carbon fan to half way insyead of zero like the displaynis showing. All reading very dry now. But the leaves look so plump.

They are 3 king gelatos and and one CBD kush

Poke a hole in the bottom 1/3 area of your pot and measure. I see progress. Pot does look dry but is it in the middle under the roots? Let us know what you find.

P.S. Your environment readings are much better today too.

 

[Namder]

Poke a hole in the bottom 1/3 area of your pot and measure. I see progress. Pot does look dry but is it in the middle under the roots? Let us know what you find.

P.S. Your environment readings are much better today too.

Will do! I should be able to get a reading tomorrow then see where we are.

Yeah exactly, its what i am thinking too.

Thank you again sir!

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Will do! I should be able to get a reading tomorrow then see where we are.

Yeah exactly, its what i am thinking too.

Thank you again sir!

Here's a good thread about watering and using a moisture meter. It's a "stickied" post. @ComfortablyNumb started it a year or so ago.

 

[TSD]

I mean you could just use 5 gallon buckets. But I like the fabric pots. It prunes the roots once they grow into them, and creates a huge root mass in a smaller area. You can grow bigger plants that in a smaller pot and with less soil. I feel like doing 100-300 fabric pots out doors is kind of dumb cuz it’s doesn’t really work the same way like that.

I start inside then the go in the ground... I was just trying something different last year... and it was a no lol.

 

[Glomus]

I start inside then the go in the ground... I was just trying something different last year... and it was a no lol.

Oh yeah transplanting out of smart pots are a traumatic experience. lol

 

[Glomus]

Exactly, which is why I suggested a few other products that are not innoculants. Instead, they are intended as teas or top dressing or soil mix. The teas can be used through flowering without any harm.

The transplant may help just because I believe there's a bit of root rot involved. . Flowering plants don't like it, but would probably be better than not doing anything at all if the problem continues. This is more of a last resort measure.

If you go back and look at how the leaves were in the beginning. They were arching downward. Wilted plants due to being thirsty don't have swollen leaf veins and they droop down more like there's a hinge at the stem. I haven't seen that in any of his pictures yet. The droop is different between the two.

Of course whether or not to water can be easily determined with a $10 moisture meter. We have several and my wife uses them all the time. They take the guess work out of this.

Surfactants that contain yucca are the best ones. I have a bottle of Sledge Hammer. It's marketed as a flushing agent but what its yucca extract. Dish soap will work, but a natural product is better. Again, dish soap is better than nothing and only as a last resort.



I'd be listening to the moisture meter unless you find out that the soil in the bottom 3rd is drier than the top 2/3rds. If you're using fabric pots just poke a small hole with a screwdriver and measure in the bottom 3rd area. You'll know your answer and can respond accordingly. Yes, over dry at the bottom is a problem but I'll be surprised if its the problem you're having.

Yeah I agree with most of that, the roots were hurting from the soil drying out but the humidity was too high so maybe the leaves couldn't transpire properly and were retaining the water.

Smart pots aren't really designed to be transplanted out of. I'm not of fan of extra transplanting if I can avoid it.

I see what you are saying with the teas, and technically they are bacterial inoculants, but those tea blends have so many organic nutrients in them already how do you know it's the microbes giving you those results or the nutrients? One of those bacterias in that microbe recharge is a lactic bacillus strain and works more in a fermentation rather than a brewed tea. Compost extracts are best for adding biodiversity to the soil microbiome, like a worm casting compost extract. Also anaerobic teas have shown to be maybe more successful then aerobics they just take longer to brew and you have to do it right. Like I said Aerobic teas are better as a foliar spray, I really like roots organic as a nutrient line but I feel they hype the teas and microbe thing up a bit too much as a marketing thing. Like honestly MIgrampa I bet you would be better off just top dressing that microbe tea feed or brewing for less time. I feel like the un naturally high amounts of microbes going in the soil all at once is good but disturbs the soil microbe balance. Just my reasoning.

I think there is a difference between overly dry soil and soil surface tension, soil surface tension happens when the root mass is everywhere and build up of different compounds that are binding the soil tightly together, I usually have more of an issue with that later in flowering. Actually, high population aerobic teas are apparently good for breaking the surface tension because they quickly eat away at the things that are binding the soil. I don't usually have the surface tension issue because of cover crops, mulch and more consistent waterings. Also rice hulls are really good for surface tension, adds extra silicates too.

Some other techniques I've used for water retention and even distribution of water in the soil is vermiculite, kelp and water crystals. But, I'm mostly outdoors. Vermiculite is awesome tho, extra silicates and stores nutrients.

 

[Glomus]

Will do! I should be able to get a reading tomorrow then see where we are.

Yeah exactly, its what i am thinking too.

Thank you again sir!

Yeah another thing I was gona say is sometimes if the surface tension is really bad on top and the bottom is dry you could water a little from the bottom using trays. I've done it with those smart pots.

 

[Glomus]

Hello guys, thanks for all the comments. Most likely why they are still all alive lol

Look a bit better perhaps. I have reset my carbon fan to half way insyead of zero like the displaynis showing. All reading very dry now. But the leaves look so plump.

They are 3 king gelatos and and one CBD kush

I don't see any roots popping out the bottom yet so they are still probably establishing. Might have been putting more energy into that at the moment. Another thing too is when I transplant I water them good and make sure I wet the whole pot, the roots follow the water, if its dryer in the bottom they won't reach for it. Thats the heaviest watering i do for the size of plant to pot ratio, it sometimes seems like the plant is stunted but it's just growing tons of roots and once those roots find the parameters, they start ripping. I'm not afraid of watering, if they droop, I will give them a little fresh oxygenated water along the way to drying out.

You should inoculated them.

 

[Glomus]

Hello guys, thanks for all the comments. Most likely why they are still all alive lol

Look a bit better perhaps. I have reset my carbon fan to half way insyead of zero like the displaynis showing. All reading very dry now. But the leaves look so plump.

They are 3 king gelatos and and one CBD kush

That yellowing on the bottom means some of the roots are hurting. I'm curious if you fed them before they got dried out. thats the worst time for a pot to go too dry is right after feeding them. It concentrates the nutrients in the soil, sometimes causing lockout, on top of damaged roots. Which makes them appear that they need nutes.

 

[Glomus]

I hope i'm not giving unsolicited advice lol. I just like putting info out there.

 

[Glomus]

Great White really is a good product, but its more of a root innoculant and not a tea. I've used it and its especially good if used from the get go right at the start. Same idea, only using a product like mykos or recharge or (my favorite) Microbe Blast. These are geared towards a microbe tea and would likely provide more benefit now since application is much easier. You just mix it up with plain water (no chlorine), aerate it to super saturate it with O2 for 8 - 12, no more than 24hrs and water it in. I'm 100% behind what you've said about microbes though. Usually I have Great White handy but I ran out. I'll be getting more soon when I shift to indoor.

@Namder if you have any of these products handy. It's a good idea during next watering.

Edit: It's not magic fairy pixie dust ... an end all to all things. It won't bring dead plants back to life ... but it will help provide a healthy environment for the roots and boost its nutrition for sure. My plants look like they are on viagra after a dose of microbes. All leaves are happily absorbing as much light as they can.

I watched this congress hearing today about a new restorative agriculture bill. Some guy from California used the term Plant Bio-Stimulants, as encompassing term for what you call bio-cides and inoculants. I like that term a lot. Plant Bio-Stimulants.

 

[Namder]

I watched this congress hearing today about a new restorative agriculture bill. Some guy from California used the term Plant Bio-Stimulants, as encompassing term for what you call bio-cides and inoculants. I like that term a lot. Plant Bio-Stimulants.

Thank you guys. I have been looking into it more and more as i go on. Got to keep within budget but now this first grown is under way i can learn and hopefully incorporate the above within this grow and the next. Will certainly be purchasing the great white, ive heard nothing but good things when used correctly.

Most of the information i have researched has steared me in the direction of brewing nutrient tea using fertiliser, worm castings and molasses. Whats your thoughts on this?

 

[Namder]

Temp was showing as 79 before opening the tent up. We are going to water from the bottom, what dya think?

 

[Namder]

That yellowing on the bottom means some of the roots are hurting. I'm curious if you fed them before they got dried out. thats the worst time for a pot to go too dry is right after feeding them. It concentrates the nutrients in the soil, sometimes causing lockout, on top of damaged roots. Which makes them appear that they need nutes.

I have watered with just water on 2 occasions since but yes i fed them, they had a massive growth spurt then the wilting started. So just been so puzzled. Going to water them again tomorrow from the bottom. What dya think? Anything i can do to help aid?