Stop Chronic Overfeeding, and some tips with canna coco

[CelticEBE]

not but I'm about 10 steps away from that. I just mean pumps with timers and dipper's because blumats are a joke.

Blumats rock.....if you are in soil with no perlite. After having some floods running them in 70%coco and 30% perlite, I boxed em. I've since used them on my Mom's in soil and smart pots....and it was easy peasy....no floods....no problems.

But I agree. I set up with OctaBubblers a few months ago....and I freaking LOVE those things.

 

[Herb Forester]

Blumats rock.....if you are in soil with no perlite. After having some floods running them in 70%coco and 30% perlite, I boxed em. I've since used them on my Mom's in soil and smart pots....and it was easy peasy....no floods....no problems.

But I agree. I set up with OctaBubblers a few months ago....and I freaking LOVE those things.

I've also been wanting to do this. What type of soil are your moms in?

 

[Capulator]

Is it working Cap???

It's sitting on my desk. LOL. I should go hook it up I just have no time right now.

 

[GanjaAL]

LOL... I understand brother. Life happens.

 

[CelticEBE]

I've also been wanting to do this. What type of soil are your moms in?

I honestly couldn't tell ya. I picked some up at wal-mart. I fed them Mother Plant from Hydrodynamics at 1/4 strength and they grew fast....and super dark green.

 

[KersD]

That's pretty impressive DWD what size containers are you using and have you had your buds lab tested to see what moisture content they are at when you make your final count? May have to give your schedule a try with sfv og to see if I can duplicate that.

I just got some cuts recently of what they say is "SFV OG" and from the look of this comment you maybe have run that strain in the past or currently and I would love some tips on it, Im a first timer, but I stacked a very good knowledge base before starting and havent stopped reading since about 3 months ago.. I have a thread of my Mag. Deficient plants with pics so if you or anyone else reading this would like to check it out and drop some advice you're more than welcome!! ANY input would be greatly appreciated, Thank you.

 

[smknfire]

Awesome info here and I'd like some input because I think I may be the victim of CHRONIC OVERFEEDING! I am running Grodan 4"s on 8"s and understand this is a coco thread but I think you guys could share opinions regardless. I just flipped my girls and in the first 2 weeks they are starting to show some burning on the tips. I have them on straight RO now hoping to flush and fix the issue over the next couple days. After running a few tests to determine how many ppms I'm putting into the solution and where they are coming from I'm a little concerned I'm off balance. I currently run H&G AquaFlakes as a base with CaliMagic, Pro-Tekt, Roots Excel, and Drip Clean as additives. I have been mixing the following through 1st 2 weeks of flower:

Initial RO readings- 24ppm / 7.2pH

Pro-Tekt - 5mL/G first into straight RO.
A&B - 6.5 mL/G
CaliMagic 5mL/G
Roots Excel 0.5mL/G
Drip Clean 0.4mL/G

In a 50 gallon res this puts out about 850-875 ppm total.

These are the tests and the guaranteed analysis for the different parts. I didn't test the Roots Excel or Drip Clean as I don't expect them to be the problem.

Pro-Tekt
5mL in 1 gallon RO = 88ppm and 10.3pH for 64ppms increase or 12.8ppm/mL

Guaranteed Analysis -
K2O 3.0%
4.1kg/1gal
7.8% Si

CaliMAGic
5mL in 1 gallon RO = 320ppm and 7.1pH for 296ppm increase or 59.2ppm/mL

Guaranteed Analysis -
N 1%
Ca 5%
Mg 1.5%
Fe 0.1%

H&G AquaFlakes
5mL each in 1 gallon RO = 524ppm and 5.7pH for an increase of 500ppm or 100ppm/mL

Guaranteed Analysis -
A
20L = 22kg
N 0.3% (0.02% Ammonical N and 0.28% Nitrate N)
K2O 0.3%

B
20L=22kg
N 0.1%
P2O5 0.3%
K2O 0.6%
Mg 0.8%

I know this is a lot for someone to answer but I really appreciate all the input. Would like to hear your guys' opinions on strengths and ratios for Veg and Flower as I feel I can dial it back and correct the ratios. I think I have all the info there but can answer any other questions necessary.

smknfire

 

[Chrondondalae]

Seems like a lot of Calimagic.

 

[cheechchong1]

my brother doesnt use cal mag and rarely ph's using canna a + b he starts at 15 ml per 10 liters then works up to 25ml per 10 liters by first week flower adds pk 13/14 week 1 and 5 and then flushes for a week max always cuts everything at 8 weeks n does make some tastey herb for commercial n his plants always look lush green except for bugs damage which he just uses neem and smoke bombs to kill, you can do it basic and get results but if you want super high quality theres more to it definately, i use humboldt county nutes 1ml per gallon up to 2.5 ml master a and b cal, mag, big up, ginormous, deucedeuce, honey es and flush - i get way bigger yeild per plant normally smaller plants too mind cuz i top mine n lst them and he lets his just go big i guess this could be a factor but i also get better reports on taste and strength - for what its worth

 

[Rollin4rese]

I've been using canna for about five years or so. When i was first introduced to it i followed the feed schedule to the spec. after having what i considered to be some respectable runs doing so, i started listening to other people telling me to push the nutes to the limit. Did so yield declined in some cases potency as well. So i went back to how i started and things where cool again. So then came the " you seem to be doing well add calmag and things will get even better", even read in a canna talk article that it may be necessary to add a couple ml of calcium and magnesium supplements as it seems needed. So i have been giving it a shot, and at this point i don't like what i see. based on information i have read seems like some of my babies are going through iron def and maybe a a lil nitro drunk. i don't know a lot of the technical jargon and scientific stuff that falls into this. And will admit that i may have been given them too much cal mag. But man I have gotten where i am today off of good and bad experiences. and as of now based on my experiences i am going back to the basics its just what has worked best in my experiences.

 

[Irie Farmer]

I was running 400-500 ppm in flower, kept having deficiency problems, on the advice of some farmers here i increased my ppm to 600-800 at the start of flower and things have turned around drastically. I'm growing in 3-5 gallon smart pots filled with 100% coco. I agree with you that over feeding is a very common problem, but every situation is different. There are an infinite number of variables that effect indoor gardens so it's impossible to say what the appropriate nutrient concentration will be for every situation.

Agreed, a big variable is the amount of light being absorbed and the size of the container. But I also agree that most of us are guilty of over feeding and I'm still a culprit. I run a flood and drain table with the rez between 450-950 depending on what stage I'm in. Sometimes though it ends up at around 1,100 after the first flood just from the runoff accumulation I assume and I just slowly add water until it gets back down to my original goal. I have to add cold water about every other day or sometimes even ice depending on how hot it is so I don't freak out when it gets a li'l high and waste all those nutes by dumping and starting over. And as @DowNwithDirT stated I've run that same set up at 1500ppm + in the past and got away with it, but I totally agree with what he's putting down and the dude knows his shii for sure and I have the same philosophy now, after 20+ years of trial and error and still learning from my mistakes every day. The switch to coco was not an easy one for me being a soil farmer and foliage grower for years with only a few grows with my table using hydroton, lava rocks and Rockwool and now that I'm getting a grasp on it I say coco as a hydro medium for the win. Sorry for rambling on. Best, Irie.

 

[Irie Farmer]

Awesome info here and I'd like some input because I think I may be the victim of CHRONIC OVERFEEDING! I am running Grodan 4"s on 8"s and understand this is a coco thread but I think you guys could share opinions regardless. I just flipped my girls and in the first 2 weeks they are starting to show some burning on the tips. I have them on straight RO now hoping to flush and fix the issue over the next couple days. After running a few tests to determine how many ppms I'm putting into the solution and where they are coming from I'm a little concerned I'm off balance. I currently run H&G AquaFlakes as a base with CaliMagic, Pro-Tekt, Roots Excel, and Drip Clean as additives. I have been mixing the following through 1st 2 weeks of flower:

Initial RO readings- 24ppm / 7.2pH

Pro-Tekt - 5mL/G first into straight RO.
A&B - 6.5 mL/G
CaliMagic 5mL/G
Roots Excel 0.5mL/G
Drip Clean 0.4mL/G

In a 50 gallon res this puts out about 850-875 ppm total.

These are the tests and the guaranteed analysis for the different parts. I didn't test the Roots Excel or Drip Clean as I don't expect them to be the problem.

Pro-Tekt
5mL in 1 gallon RO = 88ppm and 10.3pH for 64ppms increase or 12.8ppm/mL

Guaranteed Analysis -
K2O 3.0%
4.1kg/1gal
7.8% Si

CaliMAGic
5mL in 1 gallon RO = 320ppm and 7.1pH for 296ppm increase or 59.2ppm/mL

Guaranteed Analysis -
N 1%
Ca 5%
Mg 1.5%
Fe 0.1%

H&G AquaFlakes
5mL each in 1 gallon RO = 524ppm and 5.7pH for an increase of 500ppm or 100ppm/mL

Guaranteed Analysis -
A
20L = 22kg
N 0.3% (0.02% Ammonical N and 0.28% Nitrate N)
K2O 0.3%

B
20L=22kg
N 0.1%
P2O5 0.3%
K2O 0.6%
Mg 0.8%

I know this is a lot for someone to answer but I really appreciate all the input. Would like to hear your guys' opinions on strengths and ratios for Veg and Flower as I feel I can dial it back and correct the ratios. I think I have all the info there but can answer any other questions necessary.

smknfire

Mix in your cal/mag first to prevent "fallout" and at that dose I'd say that's what's driving your EC up.

 

[mulehunter]

I

LESS IS MORE.....

I have been a chronic overfeeder for around 3 yrs now. In over half a dozen systems, coco,soil, ebb n flo, deep water, shallow water, in or out.......

Enough with the past.....here what I do for certain know.

*Additives are not needed, other than a bloom booster, and zone/h202 to keep things clean

*Rhizo as a foliar, and once @ transplant at 2ml/gal

*Canna wants you to pour your money down the drain.

*Plants over/underfed have very similar traits.

*r/o water works but you must add calmag, and preferably a higher cal product like....

*Calimagic....to replace calmag+ for the win!

*LESS IS MORE>......... .5 scale for those caring.
***200 ppm of a + b for veg...is plenty....
***400 ppm of a + b for flower is plenty.

***Calimagic/a+b ratio***
150 ppm/200 ppm = 350
100 ppm/3ooppm = 400
50 ppm/ 400 ppm= 450

* 5.8 ph*

* when transplanting....no charge, no double dose, and no flush....just absolutely water to 3o% run off.

I havent had this good of results in almost 4 years.

plants can take extreme amount of abuse, overfeeding and mistreatment
Two runs ago I was feeding around 1200 ppm's and the plants took it without much signs of dislike....

Currently @ wk 4 with 10 strains all being fed the same soup.
@ 500 ppm total max solution.

hope this helps someone....I'll try to get some pics up soon.

i
Use veg +bloom also my ppms during flower around harvest are 600 total with all addatives and calmag been killing it for a while ,i agree with you plants dont need the high ppms .especially when using cocos becouse they get fed every day and the salts with that hydro research stay low .

 

[mulehunter]

I was running 400-500 ppm in flower, kept having deficiency problems, on the advice of some farmers here i increased my ppm to 600-800 at the start of flower and things have turned around drastically. I'm growing in 3-5 gallon smart pots filled with 100% coco. I agree with you that over feeding is a very common problem, but every situation is different. There are an infinite number of variables that effect indoor gardens so it's impossible to say what the appropriate nutrient concentration will be for every situation.

Whats your feeding schedule like withh cocos and the nutrients you use ?

 

[Irie Farmer]

heaviest feed has been at just before bloom and first few days slowly tapering down 100ppm each week. Starting around 2.3 ec with a tap water of .3 ec. No cal mg. No fuss.
like this
Wk 1 - 2 ec
wk 2 - 1.8 ec
wk 3 - 1.6 ec
wk 4 - 1.4 ec
wk 5 - 1.2 ec
wk 6 - 1 ec
wk 7 - .8 ec
wk 8 - .6 ec
wk 9 - .4 ec

Hitting 2.5p/k+ of fire again. A B and MPK. Tap water. Anywhere.

Seems legit and no need to flush and starve your ladies during those last couple of critical weeks. Rep +1 @DowNwithDirT I tend to listen when this ^^^dude has something to contribute.

 

[Mr.Xagain]

finish in 5 gal's

moms which are fed consistently at 15o ppm calimagic/200ppm a+b are in 1 or 3 gal....I start in beer cups.

OH YAH...

*Drip clean for the win.

*Silica as a ph up

Definitely with you on the less is more theory, but using SI to raise ph might be problematic because if you dont mix in the SI 1st your nutes will precipitate if you notice carefully your solution is probably cloudy at the end. Try figuring out the ml requirements to keep your ph @ 5.8 and add the silica 1st. I bet you'll notice the difference in color. You dont want your nutes to bind and leave some unnabsorbable to your ladies.

 

[Danky Mcnugs]

Currently have my plants maxed out with very slight tip burn at a whopping 1.2 EC. This is multiple feeds per day (4 currently) in 1 gallon pots under a 600w hortilux eye. Just went through stretch at 1.2 EC and just backed down to 1 Ec. Going to run them around 1-1.1 until buds set in then bump bsck up to around 1.2-1.3 when I add my bloom booster. Will post some pics later

 

[Strainwhore]

hey wanted to get yalls opinion on keeping trees in extended veg...
ive got trees anywhere from 5 ft to 7 ft and I was seeing some nute burn at 900-1000ppm.... flushed and backed off a bit and they Immediatey started losing their color...
any recommendations on what ppm to run for beasts?
3 gallon buckets about to go in 5 gal

I run canna A & B
CALIMAGIC
silica blast or dynagrows silica
watermax

also whats the consensus here for keeping nutrient soutions from clouding/fallout....
is it:
add silica first
then diluted ph up or down to adjust to proper ph
then diluted calmag
then diluted watermax
then diluted A
then diluted B

or is it
add diluted ph up or down to adjust to proper ph
then diluted silica
then diluted calmag
then diluted watermax
then diluted A
then diluted B


I also saw someone mention doing the calmag 1st

Also, when yall are diluting ph down, how low would yall go in the dilution containers.... is there a number u shouldn't go below?

 

[Funkadelic]

I can confirm that most of whatcher sayin' works

Ever use the grow guide on canna site? The feedings are BEASTLY, and sure to hurt your plant if you simply dump what they say to use into your res.

It's more important to look at that grow guide as what you want to ACCUMULATE in the bottom of your pots of coco for your root mass.

For all intents and purposes, coco is hydro, but not when it comes to eating one's feedings. Your 30% runoff figure was right on, and ensures that you shouldnt have much salt buildup. I use 4-6mL/gal max in veg and 8-9mL/gallon max in flower. Frequent, light feedings to ensure a full strength mix in the bottom of your root mass/pot.

Agreed with you and OP. Lighter, more frequent. Watch transpiration.
I've overfed. Its not just nute burn but real lockouts.

 

[Funkadelic]

Currently have my plants maxed out with very slight tip burn at a whopping 1.2 EC. This is multiple feeds per day (4 currently) in 1 gallon pots under a 600w hortilux eye. Just went through stretch at 1.2 EC and just backed down to 1 Ec. Going to run them around 1-1.1 until buds set in then bump bsck up to around 1.2-1.3 when I add my bloom booster. Will post some pics later

For a guy with an avatar I couldn't possibly like any less, you post something I couldn't agree with more. Well done, D McN