Tobacco Mosaic Virus

[oscar169]

@Miami Mango
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/tobacco-mosaic-virus-tmv-testing-home-in-minutes.59503/

 

[Seamaiden]

@oscar169 @Miami Mango -- do a search on @Tobor the 8th Man -- he did a lot of research into this, and one of the things he determined was that TMV does not infect cannabis. It very well may be another mosaic virus, but it may be other things as well. Read up on Tobor's thread when you find it.

 

[leadsled]

Miami Mango, Have you scoped for broad and/or cyclamen mites. Many people misdiagnose those for a virus.

Tobor's Thread.
TMV the final answer:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/tmv-the-final-answer.33713/

 

[Miami Mango]

Miami Mango, Have you scoped for broad and/or cyclamen mites. Many people misdiagnose those for a virus.

Tobor's Thread.
TMV the final answer:

I called AGDIA today and ordered the TMV strips Oscar169 showed on the thread. The guy asked me what kind of plant I would be testing and I told him Hemp, I asked the guy if such test strips would detect TMV or HMV on the plant, he said it WOULD and it would also detect ToMV which is Tomatoe Mosaic Virus on Tomatoes and Orchid Mosaic Virus.
For all I have read my understanding is that TMV is called that name because of the camouflage discoloring on the leaf of the host plant and yes TMV is the 1st virus ever identified but it does affect others, therefore changing the first name of the virus to its host plant being Tomatoes, Cucumbers, Tobacco, Orchids and so on. I'll check the broad and Cyclamen mites post and see what's up Like I mentioned before I have a very clean environment and I have a microscope to check around! I will still re-investigate! 25 TMV test strips are on the way and I shall see.
Weird thing is I seen this thing spread slowly for about 6 to 7 months and my plants looked UGLY like trash trash, it first hit the Girls Scout Cookies in flower and the moms, had to eradicate them and did not know what was up, I called it Old Eagle Claw Down Syndrome cause that's what it looked like to me (my own name) slowly I seen it spreading thru flowering rooms Sour D's and Sour D moms to the point that I went on a 2 week vacation, when I came back I had to Kill XX Moms and XXX Flowering plants on their start of week 5 and Kill all XXX new babies on the way, by this time I had stumbled upon TMV posts, Blogs, Wikipedia, Forums, Encyclopedia articles etc. My plants looked like shit in the same manner and worse as I seen pictures, I had read that there are different strains of the virus that due damage ranging from 5% to 90% devastation, I feel like I got the 90% strain.
After my 3 full days at an attempt to clean my facility just short of dropping a bomb on it, I brought new clones in and after 2 or 3 days I seen the ridges of the leaves flare, like heat stress, but remember my temp is 72 to 74, dismissed it and kept going. I transplanted and slowly the yellowness starting appearing on ONE strain of S.D.'s and sure enough after 2 or so weeks the mutations started to happen, weird shit, all in different patterns and contradicting each other. I ordered that RNA product and started using it, I had thought I found the Holy Grail, No more mutations and color came back forest green, all plants reached for the lights as if the branches had HARD ON's the way I'm used to seeing them, I was happy as hell jumping up and down claiming victory as I've had every time I encountered a problem over the last 20 years or so, be it mites, aphids, ventilation issues, AMPerage issues even powdery mildew once when I moved to Northern Cal from Miami. Now starting their 6th week, I'm feeling the stress again most plants look great but worried on size and perfume, one strain of SD not doing so hot, tall as hell, flowers slow to fatten up, loose flowers, No perfume, No sticky icky . Train Wreck looks good, smells great, but could be bigger. Not going to lie, Hella Worried, Not used to having problems at this day and age.
Cooperative is hurting right now.

GUYS I'M SORRY FOR MY RANTING and I do appreciate all the POSITIVE feed back and help I have been getting. I will check that post on broad mites and cyclamen.

P.S. I miss my Miami Mango strain I drove 3500 miles cross country in a 3" cube that got dropped on its head against the floor board repeatedly by a nuvie, the 3" cube got half frozen sitting on the floor board of the van going thru a blizzard passing thru Kansas and finally revived by setting it on the dash board of the van to defrost and get sunlight the rest of the way to NoCal. Had to eradicated it 3 months ago.
Just to add some humor to a sad story.

 

[Miami Mango]

@oscar169 @Miami Mango -- do a search on @Tobor the 8th Man -- he did a lot of research into this, and one of the things he determined was that TMV does not infect cannabis. It very well may be another mosaic virus, but it may be other things as well. Read up on Tobor's thread when you find it.

New to this, I tried clicking on That guy tobor the 8th man... but cant see his stuff.

 

[Seamaiden]

You have to go to his profile page, then go to his postings. Or, you can search his username for TMV, but using just those three letters you'll have to do it using Google. But! leadsled actually saved you the trouble and dug up & linked the thread.

Something's vectoring if you're working with 'clean' plants and they come down with it, assuming 'it' is a mosaic virus. 'It' could be another virus, or 'it' could be the broad/cyclamen mites lead mentioned. We're turning up some pretty noxious pests and diseases as MMJ spreads across the nation, they're becoming commoner and commoner.

 

[Miami Mango]

You have to go to his profile page, then go to his postings. Or, you can search his username for TMV, but using just those three letters you'll have to do it using Google. But! leadsled actually saved you the trouble and dug up & linked the thread.

Something's vectoring if you're working with 'clean' plants and they come down with it, assuming 'it' is a mosaic virus. 'It' could be another virus, or 'it' could be the broad/cyclamen mites lead mentioned. We're turning up some pretty noxious pests and diseases as MMJ spreads across the nation, they're becoming commoner and commoner.

thanks Mill Seamaiden Pictures of worst ever plants in 2 life times, prior to eradication. after fire its leaves from new mutations at same place.

 

[Coir]

#2 and #3 sure look like broad mite damage. And I so wish I did not know how it looks!

 

[Miami Mango]

#2 and #3 sure look like broad mite damage. And I so wish I did not know how it looks!

@ Coir guess you battled them before, In a way, I hope so that is a fightable fight and winnable, with lots of work though and don't really mind nor care at this point. I'm declaring chemical and heat war fare as soon as I take this next ones down, I have a new game plan for those SOB's. I wish I would have known at the time I was fighting a pest not a virus as the next set of plants look like they may have and soon to find out if that is another battle or end to a war.
Just getting my ass kicked left and right.
Time will tell. We'll see.
Thanks.

 

[Coir]

Unfortunately, I just found out about these little bastards a little over a week ago. I am at war right now but the good news is it looks like it's possible to win. When I first read about them, it was looking like moving far away was the only solution but after a lot of research, I think it's a war that can be won. It's a real PITA but don't give up.
I found that the heat does kill them and have not seen any negative effects on the plants yet. I have an army of A. Cucumeris arriving this afternoon to help as well. After the heat treatment, I went from seeing hundreds on one leaf to only finding one alive after searching through every plant. I am hoping the cucumeris will search out and find what the heat didn't get. I am going to heat up the tent one more time this morning before releasing them. If I can get through the next 6 weeks or so, I will then go through a major cleaning and sanitizing of everything before trying again. The difference in the next run will be that I will know what to look for and will be checking daily for any signs of them so they don't get out of hand in the first place. There are 5 or 6 different predatory mites available that have provided substantial if not complete control in commercial greenhouses and even in some field crops so there is hope.

 

[Seamaiden]

Yep, those look like pretty much every other pic of broad mite damage I've seen. Chasing phantom deficiencies (mystery yellowing occurring at a certain point, approximately 1mo, give or take, post-flip?) is classic root aphid symptom progression.

 

[Miami Mango]

What is you guys thoughts on the post fire cleansing pictures. Same thing? Looks 100% different.
Read lots and lots of blogs and sites from tests on aspirin and plants last night, some conflicting or vague info but finally found a few that came to a consensus of mg per gallon instead of pills per gallon since there are a variety of mg strengths pills in the market. One guys study at a tomato test site narrowed it down to 40mg to 65mg per gallon of water. That means in 60 gallon reservoir it would take (low dose) about 30 81mg aspirin pills or 7.50 325mg aspirin pills. The information was very valuable on the science about why aspirin helps plants and the acids the plants naturally makes and that's what aspirin is exactly that once its diluted in water. Most sites mention about spraying it on the plants every 3 weeks as it works great as a preventative to get viruses, bacteria, mites and such. According to the studies once the plant receives aspirin it releases scents (like ethylene gas or something, I think don't quote me on the name I closed the website going on memory) to let other plants know to get geared up and fight pests and decease. Pretty Cool Google, Bing or Yahoo "Why Aspirin helps plants"
Now question is how often to incorporate into hydro reservoirs or how often to add it to a regular foliar spray along with other foliar fertilizers. If anyone knows a site let me know.
I'm beginning to think the guy with the RNA is making a killing selling glorified grounded up aspirin rebottled cause it looks and tastes pretty much the same. GOD BLES THE GUY, NOT HATING ON HIM, WE ALL GOT TO MAKE A LIVING SOME HOW. and if it helps people save their grows good for him.
Some pics of how it used to be, man I miss those days. Last pic is current and waiting 5 more weeks

 

[Coir]

It really sucks. I have never had to deal with these things before and I am hoping once they are gone, it will be the last time. Never again will I get clones from another person no matter who they are.
I just finished cleaning all the plants up as best I could before the mites get here and I release them. The only live broads I could find were at the very top of two plants. Everything else was dead and I did a lot of searching and scoping today. I have the heat cranked in the tent with the two plants that I found the live ones on right now and once things cool down in the this afternoon, I plan on putting at least 10,000 cucumeris on each of those two plants as well as hanging a slow release sachet on each of them. I am really hoping these cucumeris do their job. I will be watching each day for signs of them on the plants and hope to see them hard at work.
I have been watering every time with 325mg/gal of aspirin since I found these guys. That was what the research I found said was an acceptable amount. It certainly has not hurt the plants any and between the heat and aspirin, they have improved quite a bit in the last few days.
Back to the war....

 

[AJ420brooks]

Re: What is this? Frustrated Big Time! PLS HELP!!
Community please listen up:

Every time I see someone with these problems experienced growers always reply that it is due to over feeding etc. those are always legit responses, always great things to check. But in reality what I see over and over again is hemp mosaic virus or tobacco mosaic virus. Please please community look into this issue and the characteristics of the virus as it is becoming an incredibly huge epidemic as friends pass it along with cuttings.

In veg you can identify it when:

1) the leaf tip turns almost on a 90 degree angle
2) leaf variegation
3) almost looks a little mutated
4) slower than normal growth rates

If you didn't catch it in veg then here are the characteristics in flower:
1) will normally show it's ugly head in weeks 2 to 4 of flower
2) if you are experienced, they'll will automatically think that something is wrong with your recipe (nothing wrong, it's the virus, only applies to experienced guys)
3) plants will look as if someone literally poured bleach on you tops ( this is why it is usually confused with too high of ppm or over feeding)
4) the plant will try to repair itself and you will think that it will, but you will realize that you were dead wrong in week 5 or 6 ( unfortunately I know from personal experience) took me months to finally identify it.)
5) everyone will tell you at you are over feeding, and I'm not saying that it might not be the case if you are a newbie, but if you've put in your time you should know better.

One of the best solutions is aspirin. Read up on it please guys and learn to identify it at the clone stage.

THIS WILL BE AN EPIDEMIC OTHERWISE..

Dispensaries have it and the people that run the clones ( clone managers) don't even know what it is...most of them dip the rock wool in a common tray so that means if one comes in with it they now all have it...

Think about it:

Harborside has thousands of little guys ( yes I got some infestations from them before), also from organican, ( which blows me away because the lady at Organicann actually knows her shit, she had a couple of mothers that were infected sitting on the counter and even told me so), blows me away that she would have it there with their vast array of little guys. Same with Harborside.

I hope this helps someone to quickly identify and correct the issue. I now assume everything has it and treat them with aspirin from the beginning just as a precaution.

If anyone has any questions hit me up, I wish I had pics of what it looks like but a quick google search will bring some up.

Good luck fam!

lPC

Is this t.m.v. I've looked for days on multiple forums and nothing. I found a pic on googled that led me to this thread so I joined in hopes that one of u have the knowledge and patience to help me understand this and what my best option is. 1000 thank you in advance. May love light and an abundance of peace be provided to u and all your loved ones.

 

[oscar169]

Is this t.m.v.

That is the same thing mine looked like and where doing tested them and NEG for TMV

 

[AJ420brooks]

That is the same thing mine looked like and where doing tested them and NEG for TMV

So what do u think then? Broad mites? Ive scoured for hours at 60x with a light to detect living things. Nothothing. Im at a loss. Its not spreading to my g.d.p. thats right next to it. I just cant figure it out. Thought at first it was nitrogen toxicity but no claw like symptoms or wilting. Then nitrogen deff. All the p.h. checked out so. A fellow told me to wash my drainage plates. That things build up and crust up and causes issues. So I did. Then he ask about my drainage so I added rocks to amother 5 gal bucket and placed the plant and its original bucket in the new rock bottom bucket to get the best possible drainage. Hi thought my plants roots might be sitting in stagnant water to add more circulation so I have. Now im waiting.

 

[sanvanalona]

@ Coir guess you battled them before, In a way, I hope so that is a fightable fight and winnable, with lots of work though and don't really mind nor care at this point. I'm declaring chemical and heat war fare as soon as I take this next ones down, I have a new game plan for those SOB's. I wish I would have known at the time I was fighting a pest not a virus as the next set of plants look like they may have and soon to find out if that is another battle or end to a war.
Just getting my ass kicked left and right.
Time will tell. We'll see.
Thanks.

It totally looks like broad damage to me. I suggest starting with new clones and doing a double avid dip and then keeping up with something like og biowar/ caps bennies. I know avid is gnarly, but believe me (I guess you can see with your own eyes) broads are so gnarly and we have them all over California right now. I also know that if you have plants in flower and want to try to save some of them you can try a heat treatment. Basically, get the ambient temp in your room to 115 for over three hours and that will help tremendously, along with a little aspirin. Sorry you are dealing with this but I am sure with some persistence you will pass this bridge. Good Luck!

 

[Seamaiden]

Is this t.m.v. I've looked for days on multiple forums and nothing. I found a pic on googled that led me to this thread so I joined in hopes that one of u have the knowledge and patience to help me understand this and what my best option is. 1000 thank you in advance. May love light and an abundance of peace be provided to u and all your loved ones.

That is the same thing mine looked like and where doing tested them and NEG for TMV

But what about testing for other mosaic viruses? Because what he's shown looks a lot like a mosaic virus to me.

@AJ420brooks -- try giving them a push of Ca. I've read others saying they've eliminated the expression (mosaic viruses can be passed down through seed) by upping the Cal-Mag, but I hesitate to use that term or suggest upping that combination. Also, there are some lines that are now known to have this trait, IIRC some of the Chem lines have it going on.

 

[kolah]

From what I've recently read that looks like textbook mosaic virus,, i.e. hooked new growth leaves and leaf blanching. As SM said it could be a different strain.

I guess I need to do some more detailed reading on differential diagnosis between TMV versus broad mites.

 

[oscar169]

So what do u think then? Broad mites? Ive scoured for hours at 60x with a light to detect living things. Nothothing. Im at a loss. Its not spreading to my g.d.p. thats right next to it. I just cant figure it out. Thought at first it was nitrogen toxicity but no claw like symptoms or wilting. Then nitrogen deff. All the p.h. checked out so. A fellow told me to wash my drainage plates. That things build up and crust up and causes issues. So I did. Then he ask about my drainage so I added rocks to amother 5 gal bucket and placed the plant and its original bucket in the new rock bottom bucket to get the best possible drainage. Hi thought my plants roots might be sitting in stagnant water to add more circulation so I have. Now im waiting.

Ok here goes the wired shit try to stay with me :), The plants that were doing/showing the signs that I tested and also test a bunch of my other strains that were not doing theses all came back NEG so they were all in 2 gallon smart pots, So I cut new clones of all mother plants, then the new clones went into brand new 2 gallons smart pots and just Pro-Mix BX and they all stopped showing the signs.
Then the plants that show the signs get bigger and start to show them again, only the mother plants ever show it, I can cut clones put them into the veg/bud room they kick ass and have no signs, I have not Fucking Clue as to what it is that Causes this, Only thing I can come to is the plant is getting or even thinking its getting root bound and starts to show the signs witch is always 3-5 months in the 2 gallon smart pots, also will do it quicker in the regular pots, I under stand if this sounds totally Fucking Dumb I know this as I'm typing but this is what I have experienced. Also I have never had broad mites and If it was mites there would be other shit going on also and theses plants do this like clock work, cut a new clone + new pot and its gone for at least 3 months again....

But what about testing for other mosaic viruses? Because what he's shown looks a lot like a mosaic virus to me.

I never ordered any other test but they do offer them.