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IamN2pot
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Well, I guess I can offer up their explaination and responce to my inquiry. I will save you my responce to them, in short, it's hard to promote a company that won't support a customer UNLESS you purchase directly from them???? Seriously??? But to purchase a replacement through them, this cost $51+ shipped, Amazon is $33! Want to price match? They have not responded to my request for THEM to replace THEIR product., or price match it. Hmmmm? You decide if you think this is standing behind your product???Man I don’t know how the clone found have ended up that way. Yes it is hygroscopic but you said it was sealed with no holes. Also even if there was a hole it shouldn’t attract enough water to make it puddle.
Personally there are too many unknowns for me to trust it.
If cloned is what you have for now use it until the replacement shows up would be what I would do.
The magnesium nitrate in our clone feed makes it easily soluble but also hygroscopic so it takes it moisture from the air. That batch was unfortunately made on a humid day in July of 2021 and did not have nearly the shelf life of our current batches. We have made an active effort to strategically blend these formulas when the conditions are more favorable and have already replaced Esbenshades stock of 15-6-17 at their physical location in Pennsylvania. They must not have replaced their stock for their online retailers. Incidents like this are exactly why we tell our customers to use caution when purchasing our products through third party retailers because we cannot guarantee the quality or age of the product.
We’re working with them to get this resolved so there shouldn’t be a need to reach out to them unless you would like a replacement.
Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions
B**** H*******
Technical Support Specialist
JR PETERS INC
6656 Grant Way | Allentown, PA 18106
866-522-5752 | [mailto:b********@]b***********@jrpeters.com
Exactly! and then it's my fault for purchasing from one of their vendors. They even have a 'Store Locator" on the site! I re-ordered from another vendor on Amazon. This first bag/vendor, Amazon only offered a refund, no return. The new vendor, Amazon accepts returns, (I've learned how to check) so we'll see. Fingers crossed!How did they not catch that?
I think it is hilariously awesome that you have a training tomato.Yahoo, thing are s l o w l y moving along. The water chiller/heater I was supose to get today was delayed. A "railroad company breakdown" according to UPS. Oh well, now they say Monday. I've got frozen water bottles.I've been testing temps with the light on in the tent all day. THe water temp is running about 4-5* below canopy temp. I'm guessing that 75-76* water temp is on the high side when I have the canopy temp at 80*??? I've got the water cooled down to 72*, pH @ 5.8 and TDS on the 700 scale is 230ppm. The CloneX called for 10ml per gal for rooted cuttings. I added 50 for the 6 gal system to get the 230ppm reading. The light is running @ 50%, PPFD is 325-350 @ canopy and the DLI is just over 14. As I understand it from Dr. Bugbee, tomatoes reach saturation @ 20DLI
Soooo, my training tomato is happy in her new home, ..... and so am I
Oh, and I almost forgot to ask, should I add any epsom salt to those nutes?
THANKS again to everyone that has contributed to this thread and enhanced my understanding of DWC!!!
KEEP SHARING, PLEASE!!!
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You nailed it! An original SF2000, so no color control.any control or just a volume knob for photons? Maybe a SF200 there?
It was/is running on low and is now turned towards the tent wall, but still blowing upward from the floor. The clamp on it will only hold if suspended from from the hanging bar(s) in the top, blowing the warm air down and over the hot light towards the DWC. I'm here to learn! so correct me, but it seemed to me it was better to blow cool air up and out, rather than warm air down to recirculate???I would lift that fan up to the top of the tent for now and point it at the wall and turn on low. You need proper roots before you can turn high respiration on.
What is your lungroom conditions?
LOL, at least daily. Right now it's more like every 2 hours. Like a new born baby.If you plan to at least peek in on it once a day and post up any symptoms that occur, we can react by adding H2O2 (make sure you have at least a small amount available) and some other things.
I have this on on it's way. Should be delivered tomorrow or Monday. https://www.ebay.com/itm/165910371215 It claims to be a chiller and heater. We'll see when it gets here. THey're new, but are all over ebay and Amazon. Hope they work.You might find yourself mid grow and wishing you had waited for the chiller.
Good to know! It certainly has been drifting, but nothing radical. Went to bed at 5.7, woke up to 5.9. I tried to lower and over shot to 5.6 so added a triffle of silica to bring it back to 5.8. Since, it's drifted back down to 5.7 during the day, so I'll let it ride for tonight and see tomorrow morning.If you see a change, for example PH, it's important to look at the trend and report that. "PH dropped from 5.8 to 4.6 overnight" kinda thing.
PH can be a finicky b**** to new hydro growers, especially those with tiny water supplies. Do not be surprised to see your PH shift thru the day. It might go up to 6.2 and down to 5.5. As long as it self corrects reasonably quickly, leave it alone.
I inoculated as you suggested in a previous post. I added the 5 ml in a 16oz cup of res water, soaked/dunked the roots (6" long) for about 2 minutes. planted the 'trainer' in the hydrocorals and poured the Orca solution into the res. Was that right??? Water temp has been kept between 70-74*.Your water temp is primarily a concern if you do not inoculate properly. We need to go thru that process and get it right.
Not sure I have all this straight in my head.We will need to have pre buffered res water ready to go at room temp for your first changeout. Get the buffer mixing thing down pat in a couple of 5 gallon pails and set them aside. Running the PH up to 9 then down to 4 by adding the buffers kills most single celled organisms, which helps. What would be a good idea would be to take some small thing like aquarium bio-media out of your res and drop it in the bucket. One of 2 things will happen:
1 - there is so little nutrition in your source water that nothing but diatoms form - which are harmless
2 - there is enough food, and your killer res bacteria snuffs the rest out with it's superior friggin army. Kill!!!
Either way you win. Just keep using biological warfare like that on your water and you won't get pythium at 76*
Most of all enjoy yourself. Let this whole experience be as zen as possible.
and if you're still reading this, here is a funny story from my past about "dirt tossers" First off Moe, I resemble that remarkOne of the greatest parts of DWC is the direct access to your roots. We get so much more info than the dirt tossers.
The fan if directly on the plants in seedling/young stage can cause them issues especially with low rh. You want the air in the tent stirring but not aggressively on the plant. Later when it gets bigger that will change and you will drop the fan down under the canopy.That ^^^^^ post was great!!! THank you Moe for the thoughtful encouragement! And as for my 'training tomato', that goes back to my OP, where I spoke about practicing on leafy green veggies.You have also been most accomidating with myself and others and as you said, "...I don't care who you are."! You help ALL of us, reguardless of who we are or where we are in growing knowledge, ...hahaha, or lack of!!!! (I'm speaking for myself)
OK, let me answer your questions and maybe post where I'm planning on going with all this.
You nailed it! An original SF2000, so no color control.
It was/is running on low and is now turned towards the tent wall, but still blowing upward from the floor. The clamp on it will only hold if suspended from from the hanging bar(s) in the top, blowing the warm air down and over the hot light towards the DWC. I'm here to learn! so correct me, but it seemed to me it was better to blow cool air up and out, rather than warm air down to recirculate???
The lung room for this little DWC is the spare bedroom/house. We have the the thermostat set to 74*, are running 2 humidifiers to keep humidity around 45%. Winter here in Pueblo is DRY!
LOL, at least daily. Right now it's more like every 2 hours. Like a new born baby.I'll get some H202. Will the 3% work or do I need the strong stuff?
I have this on on it's way. Should be delivered tomorrow or Monday. https://www.ebay.com/itm/165910371215 It claims to be a chiller and heater. We'll see when it gets here. THey're new, but are all over ebay and Amazon. Hope they work.
Good to know! It certainly has been drifting, but nothing radical. Went to bed at 5.7, woke up to 5.9. I tried to lower and over shot to 5.6 so added a triffle of silica to bring it back to 5.8. Since, it's drifted back down to 5.7 during the day, so I'll let it ride for tonight and see tomorrow morning.
I inoculated as you suggested in a previous post. I added the 5 ml in a 16oz cup of res water, soaked/dunked the roots (6" long) for about 2 minutes. planted the 'trainer' in the hydrocorals and poured the Orca solution into the res. Was that right??? Water temp has been kept between 70-74*.
Not sure I have all this straight in my head.
"pH up to 9, then down to 4", to kill bad bacteria?? OK, then back to 5.8, but is time or temp important for this bad single cell massacre?
Do I need to keep my 'extra' storage reservoir aerated?
nutes to feed my "killer res bacteria" inoculation?
It's in the garage right now, aerated and @ 60ish*, but I have a 300w submerable heater on it's way for Monday or Tue delivery.
Future plans will require at least 15gal in reserve for water changes in the 4x5gal system, so I have a 17gal tote 3/4 full with RO in the garage. Should I be giving that the pH sterilzation treatment and inoculate it ASAP???
Oh, and thanks for the 76* redline for pythium. I'm thinking along the lines of SLG with error on the cold side of temps. Especially in this sharp learning curve! A little slower growth, heck slower everything on a first grow should be helpful?
Any special brand of "bio-media" to transfer the good bacteria from one res to another?
with teachers and helpers like yourself, SLG, Steamroller, AquaMan and all the others that have contibuted, if I'm not enjoying myself, well, that would only leave MYSELF to blame. THIS IS FUN!!!! and you guys are GREAT!!!!!
Stay tuned, believe me, it's gonna get REAL fun shortly. My 2, 4x4 tents, one with the 5gal x4 system is just waiting for temps to get a tiny bit warmer. I expect to be popping 12 of Todd's (Authentic Genetics) Original Haze (purple pheno) x NL#2 in about 10 days for a grow journal and will of course continue to ask for and use your experiance and advice!
and if you're still reading this, here is a funny story from my past about "dirt tossers" First off Moe, I resemble that remark. Back in the mid 90's, I was honing my farming skills in Amsterdam. It's where I met Todd (Authenic Genetics) and we've been friends since, but back to 'dirt'. I had been into Possitronics several times buying grow supplies. Lights, ventilation, but the first time I went into Possitronics to buy dirt, hillarious! I'm at the counter and say, "I need to get about 15 bags of your dirt for my new garden". Cool as a cucumber, dude behind the counter grabs a broom and begins sweeping the floor, mumbling about how long it was going to take to sweep up 15 bags of dirt. What is he doing, I'm thinking??? Then with a rye grin he says "if you want some "earth" for you garden, we have it pre-bagged and ready to go, but if you want 'dirt', we're gonna be here a while!!! I busted up along with him! american terminoligy. In the Netherlands you garden in "earth" and you sweep up "dirt" from the floor. So if you insist: we're "earth tossers". Hahahaha!!!!
The readings were 73*, 5.6 pH and 240ppm. No, I hadn't read Moe's advice not to chase small changes, so.... you know it! But this time, no bouncy ball back and forth. I micro dosed silica until I was spot on 5.8. I added a 16oz frozen bottle into the res, and it lowered the temp to 71*. About 2 hours later, I put in the 2nd ice bottle and my temp should drop to about 69* and I'll let it rise back to 71-72* before adding another.So far, that should be around 11-noonish. This reminds me of checking a new born's diaper status every couple hours.
You will use it in between runs if you do not grow back to back.I've already got some of the 3% H202, so that's good. Now the objective is not to have to use it.
Interesting tidbit. My cheapo tan TDS meter is very close to my Bluelab. When I first added my nutes, 4:pm Fri, the Bluelab read 240 and the generic read 244. Next morning the Bluelab read 230 and the generic 228?? This morning, the Bluelab was back to 240 and the generic at 227. Those green and white chinese meters are reading 310-355 ppm, LOL!!! It's all good, they have the pH reading in 100th's and it's easy to see if it's drifting up or down, so I guess they're good for something, just not much!!!
Hmm, imo ypu don't have to worry what the water holds at altitude because in dwc your using an airstone in each bucket so there should be plenty of oxygen at all times. Unless the pores on the roots themselves close up at different altitudes this I'm unsure of, I know an un balanced ph can cause a closing of the root pores. Do some more reading but I think you would be fine, I have a friend who lives in Steamboat springs Colorado and that's at 7,000 feet and he does Hydro in 1 of his rooms, flood and drain in another, soil in another, and drip feed in another part. He's never mentioned anything about oxygen problems to me ever. I say go for it growmie!Couple years ago I was toying around with DWC and Kratky, and as I knew nothing about them I started out with leafy green veggies and GH nutes. Yep, kale, spinich, lettus, basil and cilantro. The DWC easily won out. I didn't want to make major mistakes starting off with $25.ea cuttings of cannabis, so I did regular veggies. Talk about weird looks in the grow store when I started asking about nutes for basil. I'm in Colorado, LOL!!! Anyway, after some real success with the veggie DWC garden, I started my cannabis cutting in DWC. You can see both the veggies and the cutting in the picture below. So for the cutting I started using a line of nutes that I won't name, but are local from here in Colorado, and in one of the bottles were solid pieces. The phone # was listed, so I called. The advise I got stopped me in my tracts. I was first ask what kind of hydro system, so I told him DWC. He told me that I could/should strain out the solids and it would/should work fine. Then he ask where I had purchased my DWC and named a manufacturer, "X" in Cal. I said nope, I made it myself. He said that "X" had done a commercial trial of DWC in Denver and it didn't work. Reason was "because of the altitude", the water couldn't hold enough oxygen. I was in the early stages and it was easy to transplant them into soil and that's exactly what I did. No need to beat my head against a wall, I knew dirt works, LOL!!!
Now it's 2 years later and I've been given some conflicting advise. At 4700' I am slightly lower, than Denver, but only 500'? Is that enough to really make a differance? I understand a tiny bit about how a chiller/cooler can help as well as adding Hydrogen Peroxide I'm told can raise the oxygen saturation level, but is that enough??? Help! Is it a general waste of time to do a DWC at altitudes over 2500'-3000' as was suggested to my by the nute manufacturer?
Thanks for your input.
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lol remember me saying to dilute the acid in water first then add. I would dilute it 10/1 ALWAYS add acid to water NEVER add water to acid.I started getting the 4 plant system ready for final testing. I got most everything connected and ready to be connected. Time to add water, but first, I think I'll do the 9.xpH silica and down to 4.x with the new 85% Phos...Acid pH down I just got. 15 gal res = 3gr silica and 9ml pH down, right? Well, almost. That formula worked well for the orange GH pH down, but 9ml of the 85% stuff put me in the 2.6ph range. Geeezzzz!!!!
OK, let's see what an additional scoop, around 3gr of silica will do. Hahahaha, nothing! OK so now I curious, so 1 more scoop for grins and giggles, about 4gr and I did make it all the way up to 2.8pH, WooHoo!!!
Another day, another lesson learned. It's all good! practice makes perfect.Now to refill the res. I'm sure my bluberry bushes loved that acidic water!!!
So a large swing once isnt going to cause issues… but repeatedly it will. Ideally you want to see about a 0.2 or lower swing in 24 hrs. a little more than that is ok the but more the swing in 24hrs the more likely it is to cause issues.I'm curious, what is considered a big pH swing? I know the plants don't like a big abrupt change in pH, but is it say from 5.0 to 6.0 a large swing? Or say 5.5 to 5.9, is that large? When you say "slowly lower", how slow is slow? Over the whole day, a couple of hours? I have had occasion where the pH had fallen to around 5.3 overnight. Would it be a big swing to take that back to 5.8 in one fell swoop? or do it in two or three small additions of pH adjuster?
We will need to have pre buffered res water ready to go at room temp for your first changeout. Get the buffer mixing thing down pat in a couple of 5 gallon pails and set them aside. Running the PH up to 9 then down to 4 by adding the buffers kills most single celled organisms, which helps. What would be a good idea would be to take some small thing like aquarium bio-media out of your res and drop it in the bucket. One of 2 things will happen:
1 - there is so little nutrition in your source water that nothing but diatoms form - which are harmless
2 - there is enough food, and your killer res bacteria snuffs the rest out with it's superior friggin army. Kill!!!
Im not sure his process does he add the acid and then the silicate? It can be done bith ways.The amount all depends on the alkalinity of the water and concentration of the acid.THanks for the advise Aqua. I'm on it, I was just wondering what ratio. 10 to 1 is easy enough!!!
Can you gave me a guestimate as to how much diluted 85% down to use to lower it quickly from 9 to 4? That's what Moe suggested in a previous post. I just overshot it, hahahaha!!! ALOT! Lesson learned!
This is solid advice. I did this when working with concentrated acids even before this hydro stuff. Mix dilutions w gear on then I didnt have to fret quite as much when mixing for end use. Imo it's very easy to overshoot a number or even a range w strong acids out of the bottle(or barrel) so I never like using them that way.lol remember me saying to dilute the acid in water first then add. I would dilute it 10/1 ALWAYS add acid to water NEVER add water to acid.
if you have an old empty ph down bottle you can use that to make a diluted mix so its much easier to add and slowly lower ph to hit your target
I'm sorry I was not more clear in my meaning.THanks for the advise Aqua. I'm on it, I was just wondering what ratio. 10 to 1 is easy enough!!!
Can you gave me a guestimate as to how much diluted 85% down to use to lower it quickly from 9 to 4? That's what Moe suggested in a previous post. I just overshot it, hahahaha!!! ALOT! Lesson learned!
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