Landrace/Original Cultivar Strains...any of 'em still around???

[jfizzle2cmu]

Healthy plants to the end is gonna be best....maybe. were there particular landrace you were lookong for?

Got:
Malawi
Mazar-i-sharif
Panama
Caribbean/Jamaican, TheTruth
Pakistani, pck and x-18
And plan to obtain more. Also have the DeePak, Deep Chunk x PCK. Hybrid made late last year.

Peace

Right?!

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Jordan of the Isles Afghani is definitely worth it. Good variation, you will find a nice kush and afghani pheno for some good breeding projects. I crossed it with red columbian from (now defunct) thc labs and it came out fantastic. I popped the rest of my red columbian beans and ended up with 3 males. I've had great luck with beans from Jordan.

Not really sure about the quality of afropips but they have some landrace. I tried malawi gold in an rdwc setup and it hermied but it was craaazy trippy high. I hope I have better luck with their swazi or nigerian.

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Grab a backpack and go looking for strains. I have had friends still find some obscure beans. Buy some brick weed and yank the beans like our surfers did in the 60's. Or just ask someone who is going on a trip to bring you the seeds back from their purchase.

 

[bongstar]

Yo I got some Vietnam landrace seed. they are serious real land race sativa. I mean like 110-120 day flower. with with leaves thiner than a pencil. I have to start there flower at 11 and 1/2 hours indoor then I bring them outside when the days get shorter than 11 and 1/2. they wont flower at 12 because of there equatorial heritage, they need a more contrasted change in light. They have an amazing bright, soaring head high, nothing at all like the stuff of today, and I mean nothing. most people haven't seen a real sativa,they have only seen sativa dominat stuff, and if they did they proably wouldn't want to grow it. They get big and don't produce a lot and take forever, but if your into breeding and preservation, they are a true lande race sativa, great breeding stock.

 

[fractal]

On a well known underground site there are some people selling south african grown hybrids of stuff like widow, mango, granddaddy purple, blueberry, crossed to a swazi skunk that is authentic sourced from africa. Really cheap buds like 5 bucks a gram and they are lightly seeded. Would be worth it just for the seeds, stuff looks real dank actually and reviews are good.

 

[DemonPigeon]

Yo I got some Vietnam landrace seed. they are serious real land race sativa. I mean like 110-120 day flower. with with leaves thiner than a pencil. I have to start there flower at 11 and 1/2 hours indoor then I bring them outside when the days get shorter than 11 and 1/2. they wont flower at 12 because of there equatorial heritage, they need a more contrasted change in light. They have an amazing bright, soaring head high, nothing at all like the stuff of today, and I mean nothing. most people haven't seen a real sativa,they have only seen sativa dominat stuff, and if they did they proably wouldn't want to grow it. They get big and don't produce a lot and take forever, but if your into breeding and preservation, they are a true lande race sativa, great breeding stock.

That sounds awesome :-)

Do they colour at all? I've been looking for "Vietnam Black" all over, best I got was some hermie Thai * Vietnam crosses which were nice but not amazing (gave me a bit of a headache) and weren't black either.

It's almost impossible to get anything like VB now :-( the hours I've spent looking! :-S

But my real "grail" strain has to be:
"ABC" (Australian Bastard Cannabis) I've been looking all over and found neither it or anything like it, really hoping I will get at least one seed for it and be able to build something out of that.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

There are hardly any pure strains left anywhere, not in the amazon,not africa thats for sure. Hell I just bought some racy herb here but it has an OG smell in the background. Too many farmers/cartel wanted that 90 day wonder. The best place to look for pure genetics I would think are the oppressive governments where things did not move around much. I lived in Oax. for a while and was on the look out for a while. Found good herb but nothing like a 12" long leaf as wide as my pinkie as I remember from the past. I could get back into valleys were you had to walk 3-4 days from traveling on dirt roads for 12 hours.JK

 

[jfizzle2cmu]

There are hardly any pure strains left anywhere, not in the amazon,not africa thats for sure. Hell I just bought some racy herb here but it has an OG smell in the background. Too many farmers/cartel wanted that 90 day wonder. The best place to look for pure genetics I would think are the oppressive governments where things did not move around much. I lived in Oax. for a while and was on the look out for a while. Found good herb but nothing like a 12" long leaf as wide as my pinkie as I remember from the past. I could get back into valleys were you had to walk 3-4 days from traveling on dirt roads for 12 hours.JK

Yeah I kind of figured as much. I'll take landrace strains of today. I've found a few different companies that seem reputable and offer regular unfeminized seeds. I'm just banking that these companies are using something that's grown at least 5 seasons in an open breed with many many plants...and hoping they haven't just planted OGs as you suggest your crop has sustained and called it landrace after a few years. Hopefully it's at least true breeding and weathered a little. Know what I mean?

 

[jfizzle2cmu]

Not really too concerned if something alien was introduced at some point as long as it's still a unique international variety.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

There was a guy on reef's old site I believe he was from the canary islands who had an impressive collection of old sats. I can not remember his name maybe someone can remember. He must of started a seed company as that was what it looked like he was headed for. JK

 

[jfizzle2cmu]

I also would like to someday have enough private property to begin my own sort of landrace type variety and see if it ever adapts itself to the environment in my lifetime and takes on a different set of traits that breed true.
I think being that you can't start with a blank slate, I think the best way to take on such a project would be to get a wide variety and let nature take its course.

 

[ttystikk]

The point of outbreeding is to breed for certain traits, then breed them back and stabilize. And repeat. It helps to have a large number of individual plants to choose from when doing this- the more, the merrier, really. Doing it well takes a LOT of space!

My hat's off to guys who do it the hard way like this, I don't have the patience for it.

I have a different take on strains and all the crossbreeding going on right now. I see an explosion of variety, not a solution, and an eventual profusion of varieties for growers and tokers to enjoy! And, the dark side of pot biotech gone mad, Monsanto style.

While it is true that many land races are being contaminated, this is exactly the process by which evolution happens. We've just accelerated the process many times over, and I find that exciting!

 

[Jalisco Kid]

There is nothing wrong with pollen chuckers doing their thing, but losing out on the original sucks. Ask the wine industry. And with all these pollen chucking wizards out there what have they come up with in the last 10 years? JK

 

[ttystikk]

There is nothing wrong with pollen chuckers doing their thing, but losing out on the original sucks. Ask the wine industry. And with all these pollen chucking wizards out there what have they come up with in the last 10 years? JK

All good points. I can only hope that all this chucking speeds up genetic diversity, as we all know how easy it is to dilute it.

 

[DemonPigeon]

All good points. I can only hope that all this chucking speeds up genetic diversity, as we all know how easy it is to dilute it.

That's not how diversity works though.
A species diverges as a result of the occurence and selection for or against different mutations in a population, under different selection pressures as a result of different environments, diversity can't be dilluted, maximum diversity would be a population with huge variance between individuals.

The reason diversity is important isn't because it produces the best crops (it doesn't) but because with genetic pools of high diversity as our needs change we can alter the homogenized low-diversity, high yield+quality strains to fit what we'll need in the future.

The "Texas strain" produced great corn yields in the early part of the last century until suddenly it was very obvious it wasn't that resistant to blight. Luckily other corn was still around and bred to produce more blight resistant strains. That's why diversity matters.

"Speeding up" diversity would be crossing at random with no selection criteria (which is good for creating a genetic rescource but bad for breeding the next "super strain), "dilution" would presumeably be increasing diversity

 

[ttystikk]

That's not how diversity works though.
A species diverges as a result of the occurence and selection for or against different mutations in a population, under different selection pressures as a result of different environments, diversity can't be dilluted, maximum diversity would be a population with huge variance between individuals.

The reason diversity is important isn't because it produces the best crops (it doesn't) but because with genetic pools of high diversity as our needs change we can alter the homogenized low-diversity, high yield+quality strains to fit what we'll need in the future.

The "Texas strain" produced great corn yields in the early part of the last century until suddenly it was very obvious it wasn't that resistant to blight. Luckily other corn was still around and bred to produce more blight resistant strains. That's why diversity matters.

"Speeding up" diversity would be crossing at random with no selection criteria (which is good for creating a genetic rescource but bad for breeding the next "super strain), "dilution" would presumeably be increasing diversity

And the massive explosion of breeding for various criteria- often competing ones, depending on the individual goals- will have the same effect of large groups of isolated populations being selectively bred, or at least responding to local conditions.

Yes, there is a lot of muddying of the waters going on, but there is also a lot of opportunity for increased diversity.

 

[Jalisco Kid]

Different is not better, that's why now heirloom seed are becoming so valuable. You want something greenish with killer flavor, or you want some tasteless, bright red, with a 5 year shelf life tomato. It(pollen chucking) is at its height right now and what has been produced in the last 12 years or so? JK

 

[ttystikk]

Different is not better, that's why now heirloom seed are becoming so valuable. You want something greenish with killer flavor, or you want some tasteless, bright red, with a 5 year shelf life tomato. It(pollen chucking) is at its height right now and what has been produced in the last 12 years or so? JK

Very true. Most of the time, different is not better. But every once in awhile...

Tomatoes were bred to be red and firm for shipping, not to be tasty for the consumer. Blame the system. That's a hybridization success story, as it allowed more people to eat more tomatoes, even if the ones they get aren't the very best ones. Note that people are getting more discriminating, guess what they're hybridizing for now? Color and flavor...

The opposite argument holds just as true; heirloom isn't always better, either. In fact, its main advantage is potential.

As people who know continue to demand quality and variety, there will always be those who supply it. And they'll always look a lot more like a little shop than Wal-Mart.

 

[DemonPigeon]

And the massive explosion of breeding for various criteria- often competing ones, depending on the individual goals- will have the same effect of large groups of isolated populations being selectively bred, or at least responding to local conditions.

Yes, there is a lot of muddying of the waters going on, but there is also a lot of opportunity for increased diversity.

Well all the alleles that contribute to the genetic diversity were already there but spread out, when you breed them together you make one larger pool of potential alleles in the genetics of their offspring, that's not a problem, the problem is not everything that was in the old varieties makes it into the new populations and when the old ones are displaced by modern strains things are lost.

Basically loss of old strains creates more diverse plants but reduces diversity of the species genome overall.

 

[jfizzle2cmu]

Well all the alleles that contribute to the genetic diversity were already there but spread out, when you breed them together you make one larger pool of potential alleles in the genetics of their offspring, that's not a problem, the problem is not everything that was in the old varieties makes it into the new populations and when the old ones are displaced by modern strains things are lost.

Basically loss of old strains creates more diverse plants but reduces diversity of the species genome overall.

These types of things are what I'm trying to consider in my breeding goals, however, I don't know where to begin and what to shoot for. Should one cross to bring out recessive traits in hopes of stumbling upon something "new", should I cross to incorporate a dominant trait from one stable strain to another a different stable strain, should I cross existing "elite" hybrids to create "newer" hybrids, should I cross "elite" hybrids to different landrace strains for whatever reason, or what?!?!! Makes my head spin.

LOVE the convo though guys. Keep it going, very intriguing.