tobh goes swimming Dutch style

[tobh]

After the first two cycles, pH climbed to 6.1, 772ppm. I've added 4.5ml more pH down to bring the pH back to 5.5

12 hours will tell the true story. Updates to follow

 

[tobh]

Ok, well this sucks.

pH is at 7.2, 755 ppm.

Time for reset to baseline. Ruled out both tap and the nutrient ratios as being root cause.

 

[Lynch_Ironside]

Ok, well this sucks.

pH is at 7.2, 755 ppm.

Time for reset to baseline. Ruled out both tap and the nutrient ratios as being root cause.

Just a shot in the dark but did you get the slime under control? I'm pretty sure algae can cause ph to spike as it feeds. How light tight are those buckets? Idk just a thought probably way off...

 

[tobh]

Just a shot in the dark but did you get the slime under control? I'm pretty sure algae can cause ph to spike as it feeds. How light tight are those buckets? Idk just a thought probably way off...

yeah, there's residual algae, nothing significant enough to cause issues from what I can see. The buckets themselves are white, but they're full of hydroton for what it's worth.

At this point I really think the swing is being caused by explosive bacterial growth due to a combination of the bucket temps and res temps. I don't have a chiller so it's hard to keep the res within a decent temp range to control the bacterial growth, and I may have even got a bad batch of hydroguard. No telling how long Amazon had this bottle sitting in a warehouse, let alone how well it was stored during that time.

It's disheartening to deal with this, was pretty confident last night it was the tap water. So, I'm just going to eliminate the two new additives, and run shock for a moment while I decide which order to proceed with restarting the live res effort.

 

[tobh]

Alright... so I haven't done the res change out. I'm in the process of pH'ing it down to 5.5. I'm not giving up yet. Whatever is buffering the pH is fighting hard. Or, my venturi pump is being a bitch. Not sure which.

Regardless, I'm going to give this experiment a chance. 25% what was normal acid application felt... off. So maybe the residuals in the site needed to be accommodated for.

That being said, I've got a bigger problem. or a positive thing. Roots from the big girl are exiting the drain on her site. They're running down the return tube. This has officially turned into a hybrid Dutch Bucket NFT system as a result. So much for simplicity.

I adjust the return line to be far up on the drain out of the sites, 3 degree slpe to provide efficient gravity return. This is gonna get interesting if the roots fill the return.

A shop vac is gonna be needed absolute empty if roots hit res, which I'm now thinking is a real possibility.

 

[tobh]

So, I didn't do the res changeout. I'm pHing it back to 5.5. Giving it another chance. Maybe residuals in the site were combating my efforts. I'm bringing the fight.

Stalk on site one near as big as my thumb. goddamn silica influences some monsters.

Roots are coming out of the drain on site one. Now I'm concerned it's not big enough and will clog up.

I'm wondering if this is damage from the spinosad I sprayed last night

Pretty sure this is the cal def

 

[Aqua Man]

You can buy strainers but a little root pruning if needed will be ok.

 

[Lynch_Ironside]

Just curious what's the average ppm drop in a 24 hour period? I think I remember seeing that it was around 30 ppm in 12 hours. If that's correct then 60 in 24?
I know every plant is different and every set up is different but is there an average that you shoot for?

 

[tobh]

Just curious what's the average ppm drop in a 24 hour period? I think I remember seeing that it was around 30 ppm in 12 hours. If that's correct then 60 in 24?
I know every plant is different and every set up is different but is there an average that you shoot for?

Throughout all of this, the ppm's have stayed fairly static. Drinking roughly two gallons a day now, ppm's staying consistent despite the drop, but pH has been rising. I haven't checked pH this morning yet, but will soon.

 

[tobh]

So, the pH creeped up to 6.3 overnight. I'm going to drop it back down to 5.5 again and monitor throughout the day. Maybe the low volume of acid initially wasn't providing enough buffer, as this is a much lower swing than I've been seeing.

 

[Aqua Man]

So, the pH creeped up to 6.3 overnight. I'm going to drop it back down to 5.5 again and monitor throughout the day. Maybe the low volume of acid initially wasn't providing enough buffer, as this is a much lower swing than I've been seeing.

I think it could be accumulative... nitrates taken up will raise PH just hkw the ion exchange works. Same as ammonium will lower PH as taken up. Then an acid mix, I still suggest straight phosphoric acid. Good aeration will off gas and excess co2 in the water very quickly. First I would try switching to pure phosphoric acid.

 

[tobh]

I think it could be accumulative... nitrates taken up will raise PH just hkw the ion exchange works. Same as ammonium will lower PH as taken up. Then an acid mix, I still suggest straight phosphoric acid. Good aeration will off gas and excess co2 in the water very quickly. First I would try switching to pure phosphoric acid.

What do you think of sulfuric acid instead? I have an auto parts store like two blocks away, could grab some from there (if they still sell, it's been years since I bought sulfuric acid).

 

[Aqua Man]

What do you think of sulfuric acid instead? I have an auto parts store like two blocks away, could grab some from there (if they still sell, it's been years since I bought sulfuric acid).

Just make sure no other additives. I prefer food grade. I'm not sure if the sulfuric for batteries contains lead anymore but I dont think so... im just not sure on what else may be in it.

 

[Aqua Man]

Found this. I pay like $10 for a bottle locally. Last a long time because its so concentrated. But you need to use it cautiously. And never add water to acid... always acid to water. In a 20gal res I use 3-4ml

Tech Grade Phosphoric Acid, 85%, 16oz. for sale. Buy from The Science Company.

Also known as Orthophosphoric acid, our Phosphoric acid, 85% is a clear, colorless to light yellow, syrupy liquid and is odorless.

www.sciencecompany.com

 

[tobh]

Found this. I pay like $10 for a bottle locally. Last a long time because its so concentrated. But you need to use it cautiously. And never add water to acid... always acid to water. In a 20gal res I use 3-4ml

Tech Grade Phosphoric Acid, 85%, 16oz. for sale. Buy from The Science Company.

Also known as Orthophosphoric acid, our Phosphoric acid, 85% is a clear, colorless to light yellow, syrupy liquid and is odorless.

www.sciencecompany.com

That I remember from my chemist days of DMT and what not ;) good lookin out. Where do you typically find it locally?

 

[Aqua Man]

That I remember from my chemist days of DMT and what not ;) good lookin out. Where do you typically find it locally?

Hydro shop actually. I think they decant it.

 

[tobh]

I didn't end up pHing down this morning, and the pH is dropping! It's at 5.9 now. The system might be stabilizing finally. And the girls are drinking a ton. ppm's climbed a little, they're averaging ~900 now, but I think the system is stabilizing finally. Gonna go ahead and add back 3gal water so that the pumps don't run dry but this is promising.

 

[Aqua Man]

I didn't end up pHing down this morning, and the pH is dropping! It's at 5.9 now. The system might be stabilizing finally. And the girls are drinking a ton. ppm's climbed a little, they're averaging ~900 now, but I think the system is stabilizing finally. Gonna go ahead and add back 3gal water so that the pumps don't run dry but this is promising.

View attachment 1069096

Did you remove roots increasing the flow? Dropping ppm a bit may also help but looks like you got it going in the right direction

 

[tobh]

Did you remove roots increasing the flow? Dropping ppm a bit may also help but looks like you got it going in the right direction

No, getting access to where those roots are isn't really an option with how static everything is at this point. I might drop irrigation cycles down again to ensure full drainage of the sites as a side effect.

As for the ppm drops, I ran at the full dosage the feed chart called for. Surprisingly it wasn't as high as I anticipated, but I'm also suspect of my ppm meter. Even with a full battery it's jumping around, so I need to replace it with something more accurate.

I've realized this design was never meant for this long of veg. I may be pushed to flower with only half the screen filled as a side effect of not thinking it through all the way. It's been a learning experience, and won't be a total loss, but won't be as big of pull as I was hoping for if that's what ends up happening. I'll give it till NYE, and make the call then.

 

[tobh]

Well, it's been a few days and things have moved in a better direction. Growth rates have skyrocketed it seems and all the numbers are moving in the same direction now. pH is on the downswing, slowly, EC is dropping, and water levels are dropping. This tells me it's time for a res change due to acid rain conditions.

Forgive the short, detail-light post. End of a long, harsh workday so this is what I've got for now.