The Secret to Organic success

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Anyone ever see what an organic pig farm does to the local water supply?

Both harmful if not used appropriately. Both much less harmful if used appropriately. Organic certification is kind of a joke in my mind once you read into the pesticides and non organic stuff allowed.
 
ComfortablyNumb

ComfortablyNumb

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Anyone ever see what an organic pig farm does to the local water supply?

Both harmful if not used appropriately. Both much less harmful if used appropriately. Organic certification is kind of a joke in my mind once you read into the pesticides and non organic stuff allowed.
Yep. Anything in a concentrated form can be dangerous when on its own it is actually good for all.
 
Moeboi

Moeboi

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Here's some of my completely organic plants that I am currently growing, no added nutrients, no special soil, nothing. Just regular soil from my backyard( I live in the valley of California, San Joaquin Valley to be specific)
View attachment 1141741
View attachment 1141746

Here's some pictures of my buds I grew last year in the same soil and everything, all I do is water them. Strains are unknown.
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View attachment 1141750

Honestly, I really wish companies who sell seeds or even weed would have a photo comparison of a specific strain grown completely organic, nothing special etc. And another picture of that same strain grown with all the additives, teas, nutrients, special soil etc. Idk, I will probably never be able to afford to grow my cannabis with all the special teas, soil and whatnot so idk I just would like to see completely organic weed be grown and shown more often cause I feel like there is this stigma around cannabis that you absolutely need to spend all that.money on nutrients and soil and whatnot just to grow cannabis but you really don't need any of that. But I feel like that stigma really deters people from wanting to at least try it out y'know? I don't know lmfao, just thought I'd share haha.
Awesome
 
Glassdub

Glassdub

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Anyone ever see what an organic pig farm does to the local water supply?

Both harmful if not used appropriately. Both much less harmful if used appropriately. Organic certification is kind of a joke in my mind once you read into the pesticides and non organic stuff allowed.

The other down side. Is all the products on the shelf in the garden center. You should be making potash, composting and making land live. When you buy organic foods for your pot plants at home it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole idea. Those fancy general hydroponics organic nutrient kits don't make much sense. A better solution is guess would be to strictly control food import and export. With some kind of policy. And implement a functional system with over sight. That can somehow be free of financial influence. And keep tigher controls over materials. But humans aren't good at that level of management.
I used Agrothrive on my first organic grow as an experiment & because it was cheap & mostly uses otherwise disposed fish waste, I like the idea of that. Outdoor vegetable gardening I seldom use anything but compost.
The jury is still out on Agrothrive, I went too strong on this grow which wasn't an all out disaster IMO but the worst as far as plant health of my 3.
I will see how it goes next run, its less a hassle mixing Dyna-gro but if Agrothrive pans out better I wouldn't mind sticking with it. Both are pretty low cost & that's the bottom line.
 
lvstealth

lvstealth

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Organic has all the advantages. It costs almost nothing and with a bit of care, lasts for a lifetime. You don't need to measure it, ppm it, pH it, or do anything but water.
No, it's not going to feed millions, but it's not supposed to. People should have their own gardens for their home. All the money they would save and how quickly the corrupt food industry would loose control over what we eat.
i dont consider the food industry corrupt, but otherwise agree.

i went "organic" because of the "cheap" aspect. i dont particularly worry about footprints and such (i have faith that man will figure it out and come up with a fix). i also find that i have far fewer issues because i dont worry and fret over the measuring, ph-ing and the research it takes to find the chemicals that work best...

i get the mindset that we need to do mass production to feed the world, but again, not so much worried over that, im just a selfish person when it comes to those things.

that leaves me with the biggest reason for me to do it, it just plain tastes better.

most of my life i have had a garden. my kids didnt eat anything from a store (except salt) till puberty (lost control about that time!) it was a way of life where i was, not a hobby. i hunted, fished and farmed. it just tasted better.

now i grow some things, but not everything. and i still say it tastes better.

dont really care what the rest do, but if you want a good slab of meat, raise it. you want a good side dish, grow it. you want some good butter? churn it. you cant get these things, and probably wouldnt appreciate the differences, so mass production suits you. but if you have ever had a mess of fish outta the water for less than an hour, a dish of grits you had ground from corn you grew, gravy from cream you got fresh that morning, seasoned with the herbs you planted and the wild bay down by the pond. all served up with the green beans from the garden, the fatback from Wilbur (god rest his soul) and those good vidallia onions that only grow where i raised my family... add to that an after dinner smoke from some fine tasting weed you grew...

most algae i saw on the stream meant the neighbors still up-creek was running. so not really a bad thing!
 
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Goblinkiller

Goblinkiller

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@Aquaman : there seems to be different rules for different countries on the organic part. I have been told there is very little difference on organic and non organic food in Norway because food regulations are much stricter than america. For example organic eggs vs inorganic eggs. But if you were to head down South in europe it would be a greater difference...
 
shaganja

shaganja

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They way I see it there are two kinds of "organic" growing. Well three if you include the organic growers that aren't really organic 😉 every self-proclaimed organic grower I've ever met that grow in containers has at least a bottle of synthetic pH up/down in their nute cabinet...d'oh!

First there is the input substitution approach which is what the vast majority of organic growers use. This system attempts to replicate conventional production systems, except using organic inputs rather than synthetic ones.
The other approach is known as agroecology, and it attempts to challenge both the monoculture structure and dependence on off-grow inputs by utilizing regenerative systems that rely more on biodiversity and inputs available on-site...like sunshine or the nitrogen in the air.

Reusing "soil" is a great first step toward regenerative systems, but incorporate some biodiversity, too. Grow something else in that soil before you grow your next Cannabis crop in it 🤪 I recommend both a grass and a legume. Grasses are excellent at scavenging available nitrogen and provide aeriation to your soil/compost pile while legumes can add nitrogen to your soil (inoculate the seeds for max N fixation). I use different combinations for the used soil from each of my crops. Be sure to terminate these crops before they set seed and compost everything together.
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Only because some organic farmers were using manure improperly...that shit needs to compost first! But E. coli produce recalls in the US peaked in 2014 and have dramatically decreased since then due in part to safety regulations announced in 2015. While a few studies have found higher prevalence of E coli on produce from organic farms, the vast majority have not found this to be the case.



By "hydro" I assume you mean conventional DWC or EAF systems? Because many (most?) organic Cannabis grows are also hydroponic systems, typically drip or hand applied. Even feeding teas is technically hydroponics. Hydroponics just means that inputs are being applied in a liquid form.
Yes, once i started with knf, regenerative, i realized this organic thing is just words. Still uses bottles. But this knf stuff uses mother nature. Micorizal from trees, leaf compost, cow, fish, vermicomposting, fermented plant juices. its all natural. Like for real natural! And the smoke really shows. The terpene expression cannot be matched. I know those are strong words, but i really feel the best indoor cannot match the terpene expression from outdoor, ground grown, cannabis.
 
Ponky

Ponky

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Yes, once i started with knf, regenerative, i realized this organic thing is just words. Still uses bottles. But this knf stuff uses mother nature. Micorizal from trees, leaf compost, cow, fish, vermicomposting, fermented plant juices. its all natural. Like for real natural! And the smoke really shows. The terpene expression cannot be matched. I know those are strong words, but i really feel the best indoor cannot match the terpene expression from outdoor, ground grown, cannabis.
That's funny because where I live there has never been outdoor worth smoking. Ever. No one I know likes it. No one will buy it. And it only ever gets exported. Greenhouse or outdoor here is just trash. I had hoped somewhere had good outdoor. Cuz we sure don't. To us you can look at the bag and know it's outdoor. And when you smell it. You know you don't want it. You're lucky you get good grow conditions.
 
shaganja

shaganja

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That's funny because where I live there has never been outdoor worth smoking. Ever. No one I know likes it. No one will buy it. And it only ever gets exported. Greenhouse or outdoor here is just trash. I had hoped somewhere had good outdoor. Cuz we sure don't. To us you can look at the bag and know it's outdoor. And when you smell it. You know you don't want it. You're lucky you get good grow conditions.
Wow! In michigan, the best weed happens in the fall! It was even that way when I was young, and didn't shit about growing. There is a town called Greenville, (funny huh?) That had the best weed, in end of oct. That was back in late 90's. And the best weed I've ever smoked was g13 from mt. Pleasant, mi. It was an outdoor grow also. It made me hallucinate. Lol that sucks all of your outdoor experiences have been bad.
 
JJS009

JJS009

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Wow! In michigan, the best weed happens in the fall! It was even that way when I was young, and didn't shit about growing. There is a town called Greenville, (funny huh?) That had the best weed, in end of oct. That was back in late 90's. And the best weed I've ever smoked was g13 from mt. Pleasant, mi. It was an outdoor grow also. It made me hallucinate. Lol that sucks all of your outdoor experiences have been bad.
I can second this ^^^.

There has always been damn good outdoor in my circle in Michigan. It all depends on the grower, I have had more shitty indoor than outdoor here. It seems all most of the indoor guys around here care about is how photogenic/frosty it is, I don’t give a flying fuck how frosty it is if it tastes like shit and the high sucks.
 
PauliBhoy

PauliBhoy

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Organic farming causes more nitrates algae blooms and has a more damaging foot print commercially. Artifical fertilizers are easier to measure. They don't have issues with leaching. Organic farming is about the label. There are no environmental advantages.
Got any evidence to back that up? According to an International Joint Commission of US and Canada, 72% of all phosphorus applied in the Lake Erie basin was applied as commercial (synthetic) fertilizers and only 28% as (organic) manure. That phosphorus is the primary contributor to eutrophic conditions in the lake, which sounds like a pretty big issue with leaching to me.

But all sustainable farming is organic, but not all organic farming is sustainable. As I wrote earlier in this thread, there are two approaches to organic farming; one is basically industrial farming where natural inputs are substituted for synthetic ones. That's the kind of organic farming you're talking about. It is not any more sustainable or much more environmentally sound than any industrial farming. The other approach, agroecology, emphasizes minimizing off-farm inputs and maximizing biodiversity and thus has a far smaller impact on the environment than any industrial farming, organic or conventional.
Synthetic foods and pesticides work. And the myth they're somehow bad and toxic is just false.
Myth? There are loads of evidence that synthetic pesticides have major impacts on soil and aquatic biota as well as human health. It's not a myth, it's an established scientific fact.

Science didn't make agriculture worse. It solved the demand problem.
Really it just rearranged the allocation of biomass in our crops and has bred chemical resistant pests and diseases. Modern hybrid breeding programs focus solely on single yields - the yield of wheat berries, for example - at the expense of other components of total yield. Older wheat varieties grow taller and thus fix more carbon from the air. They also produce more hay or straw than the short hybrids designed for combine harvest. The older varieties may not produce as many wheat berries per acre as modern hybrids, but that also means they require less phosphorus per acre too. That additional straw has a variety of uses including building materials and livestock feed.

But it didn't solve any demand problem either. As economist William Stanley Jevons first noticed, any increase in the efficiency in which a resource is used will generate an increase in the consumption of that resource rather than decline. More efficient fertilizers or crops inevitably leads to greater consumption of them. It's a phenomenon known as Jevon's Paradox or the rebound effect. It doesn't solve the demand problem, it exacerbates it, and creates additional problems further down the road. Solving one demand problem with efficiency only creates more demand that will require even more efficiency and so on ad infinitum. It's a downward spiral, a race to the bottom.
 
Ponky

Ponky

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I can second this ^^^.

There has always been damn good outdoor in my circle in Michigan. It all depends on the grower, I have had more shitty indoor than outdoor here. It seems all most of the indoor guys around here care about is how photogenic/frosty it is, I don’t give a flying fuck how frosty it is if it tastes like shit and the high sucks.
I guess another issue I have is I smoke for chronic pain. So I don't get high. I can dab shatter and smoke joints for hours while eating edibles and vaping. But I never get "high". I just feel a reduction in neuralgia. I wouldn't be able to tell you how strong a joint is. Only how it burns and tastes . But for some reason here outdoor has a musky taste. It has terrible structure. And it annoys you when you smoke and makes you have to smoke a proper joint right away. But in other parts of the world outdoor is frosty and dense with terpenenes and flavor. And I don't get to try it :(
 
PauliBhoy

PauliBhoy

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Anyone ever see what an organic pig farm does to the local water supply?

Both harmful if not used appropriately. Both much less harmful if used appropriately. Organic certification is kind of a joke in my mind once you read into the pesticides and non organic stuff allowed.
Is that pig farm a pastured operation, or are they just mimicking industrial CAFO operations using "organic" inputs?
Organic certification is really more about what isn't being used than what is or how that affects the environment. Organic farming is motivated almost entirely by concerns about health from toxic inputs and not at all about other environmental issues or social well-being.

Suggest you look into the Rodale Institute's Regenerative Organic certification. It goes far beyond the USDA organic program and is much more focused on regenerative land use rather than solely whether inputs are "natural" or not. We definitely need a lot more of this.

That's funny because where I live there has never been outdoor worth smoking. Ever. No one I know likes it. No one will buy it. And it only ever gets exported. Greenhouse or outdoor here is just trash. I had hoped somewhere had good outdoor. Cuz we sure don't. To us you can look at the bag and know it's outdoor. And when you smell it. You know you don't want it. You're lucky you get good grow conditions.
Well this is a massive fallacy that arises primarily because the lion's share of breeders aren't selecting for outdoor conditions. They aren't selecting for pest or disease resistance or performance in the field or a greenhouse. Give me 5-10 years and a budget and I guarantee I would be able to develop outdoor strains that look smell and taste as good as any indoor-grown bud anywhere in the world. The weed farm I managed in Washington state actually marketed most of the flower we grow outside as "indoor" bud because of how misinformed consumers are.

There has always been damn good outdoor in my circle in Michigan
This is because someone was/is selecting for strains that do well in outdoor conditions where you are. Kudos to whoever is doing that!
 
Ponky

Ponky

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5 to 10 years? Thats much longer than the 6 months you get to nail it and produce flawless product of the highest standard. Even that high THC "sun powered" weed they grow in the greenhouses here is garbage. They basically built these giant greenhouse facilities. And hired these horticultural experts and breeders. And it was a joke. It was literally roobs and nobodies trying to buy genetics with a credit card. And they ended up doing 60 rooms of the same poo. Which literally is in trucks driving around once a day. Because it's the only way to store it. And where does it end up? Yep. The landfill. Literally the guy with 200 lights and a warehouse was the guy they just needed to pay. And they couldn't figure it our. Lighting up 10s of thousands of bulbs. Boy did they learn. Took them at least 10 crops to go broke. Not too bad. But at the end of the day. Sabotage. And trying to compete with gangsters makes it real hard to win.
 
ThiccHarambe

ThiccHarambe

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I think we can all agree that corporate "organics" is not true organic. Corporations love slapping useless labels on products just to sell and promote them better lol. I mean there's of course more to it but major corporations don't give a f about the environment or true organics, all they care about is quantity and what gives them the best results even if it's something that can harm the environment.
 
Goblinkiller

Goblinkiller

658
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I think we can all agree that corporate "organics" is not true organic. Corporations love slapping useless labels on products just to sell and promote them better lol. I mean there's of course more to it but major corporations don't give a f about the environment or true organics, all they care about is quantity and what gives them the best results even if it's something that can harm the environment.

Hello, I guess oldtimers is no better then? U know the brand/products?
 
ThiccHarambe

ThiccHarambe

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Hello, I guess oldtimers is no better then? U know the brand/products?
Hello! What do you mean? Are you implying that old timers are major corporations? Or? Lol, also what products? I'm merely stating that major corporations don't do anything in regards to "organics" and everyone has a differing opinion on what true organic is as it always will be lol. But major corporations do not grow true organic, they literally slap labels on everything and just call it organic because profit, especially now.
 
skinnypuppy

skinnypuppy

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That's funny because where I live there has never been outdoor worth smoking. Ever. No one I know likes it. No one will buy it. And it only ever gets exported. Greenhouse or outdoor here is just trash. I had hoped somewhere had good outdoor. Cuz we sure don't. To us you can look at the bag and know it's outdoor. And when you smell it. You know you don't want it. You're lucky you get good grow conditions.
Controlled (indoor) VS uncontrolled (outdoor) environments. I can tell you right now, all things being equal what one wins. The only advantage to growing outdoor is available space. No doubt it is settling for second best.
 
PauliBhoy

PauliBhoy

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Controlled (indoor) VS uncontrolled (outdoor) environments. I can tell you right now, all things being equal what one wins. The only advantage to growing outdoor is available space.
Free sunlight?
Net negative carbon emissions?
Better terpene profiles?
 
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