Flushing plants has no value?

[Aqua Man]

Ok prob a couple too many beers so time to log. Not sure if anyone can makes sense if that fat fingered garble

 

[Dummy buds]

I'm gonna go ahead and throw this out there

I like turtles

 

[Stonemason7767]

I'm gonna go ahead and throw this out there

I like turtles

Lol my friend in Nebraska has a pet snapping turtle.he raised it from egg.they cuddle with it. It is huge.loves getting petted.never bite anyone.it thinks it's one of the dogs.crazy

 

[MartyMcFly42oh]

Sure i can try here. A plant cannot take up organic nutrients. This is a big misconception. Organic nutrients break down via bacteria and the initial form is ammonia/ammonium then anothoer species of bacteria break it down into nitrites and yet another break it down into nitrates.

a plant can take it up in all form yet none of them are organic as it’s impossible for a plant to take up organic nitrogen. See organic simply describes the way in which the nutrients are broken down. They are either broken down organically via bacteria or synthetically via heat, chemical reactions etc. but in the end a nitrate is a nitrate no matter the source and a nitrate by itself is in ionic form.

say what potassium nitrate. Thats a salt but organic nutrients are broken down into salts and dissolved into water in ionic form that can then be taken up by the plants via ion exchange or passive uptake.

Now thats not to say there are no benefits to the bacteria, enzymes and secondary metabolites produced in this process that may contribute to terps, etc. but the smoothness, white ash etc is in large part due to the magnesium and proper dry and curing that again actual is bacteria doing their magic.

be it ammonia or nitrate sourced nitrogen once its taken up by the plant it is used to make other compounds and is not stored in ammonia or nitrate form so that parts is absolute bro science bullshit.

Thank you for explaining this to me, I appreciate the knowledge that you have provided. I kind of suspected that it was in fact bro science, but I went for it anyway.

Ok prob a couple too many beers so time to log. Not sure if anyone can makes sense if that fat fingered garble

 

[Dirtbag]

My 2c.. I think it's important to not overfeed a plant at the end, and I do believe that excess Nitrogen and phosphorus stored in the vacuoles of the cells cytoplasm can cause the bud to burn poorly. Excess stored nutes can be minimized by not overfeeding obviously, it's just, for many growers overfeeding is very easy to do.
I do also believe that chelates and/or isotonic solutions can assist removing stored nutrients from cell vacuoles. Water alone, not so sure.
Mostly though I think insufficient magnesium is the biggest culprit for bud that doesn't stay lit.
feeding conservatively near the end, and finishing them with chelates and magnesium is my ticket to nice burning weed.

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

He says something to the effect that when the plant takes in organic nitrogen available to it, it will have nitrogen in it in molecular form up until combustion. When the plant takes up ammoniacal nitrogen that, that compound stays in the plant until combustion. He says that the temperature at which point that ammoniacal nitrogen combust is much hotter than plain old nitrogen.

He is maybe refering to "urea" - which is taken up by plants via massflow and enters a completely different pathway than either ammonia or nitrate.

Nitrate needs to be reduced to ammoniac within the leaves/chloroplasts (using electrons from photosynthesis) but is actually toxic to plants. At physiological (internal) pH-levels, ammoniac mostly dissociates to ammonia, but the rest needs to be cleared by the plant.

When fertilizing urea, the plant has next to no control over its assimilation, both externally as it is not ionic, nor internally, and there exists a special form of urea toxicity that looks similar to leaf tip burn due to the accumulation of it at the end of the xylemic path.

However, in soil most urea is quickly hydrolyzed into ionic forms of N so it's downright impossible to fertilize without nitrate. It wouldn't make sense to begin with from many points as well.

Plants can also take up amino acids but these are mostly used as chelates to boost other processes, like internal nutrition translocation.

 

[yobbocrack]

but do you fill your bong with the soda is the real question

i have not tried soda i should it might strip clean the bong as well...i generally use filtered water just to be fancy.

 

[Dummy buds]

Lol my friend in Nebraska has a pet snapping turtle.he raised it from egg.they cuddle with it. It is huge.loves getting petted.never bite anyone.it thinks it's one of the dogs.crazy







I have a tortoise that I got a year ago, she was the size of a Ritz cracker, and now she is the size of large grapefruit

 

[MartyMcFly42oh]

He is maybe refering to "urea" - which is taken up by plants via massflow and enters a completely different pathway than either ammonia or nitrate.

Nitrate needs to be reduced to ammoniac within the leaves/chloroplasts (using electrons from photosynthesis) but is actually toxic to plants. At physiological (internal) pH-levels, ammoniac mostly dissociates to ammonia, but the rest needs to be cleared by the plant.

When fertilizing urea, the plant has next to no control over its assimilation, both externally as it is not ionic, nor internally, and there exists a special form of urea toxicity that looks similar to leaf tip burn due to the accumulation of it at the end of the xylemic path.

However, in soil most urea is quickly hydrolyzed into ionic forms of N so it's downright impossible to fertilize without nitrate. It wouldn't make sense to begin with from many points as well.

Plants can also take up amino acids but these are mostly used as chelates to boost other processes, like internal nutrition translocation.

I looked for the video on YouTube last night for over an hour and was unsuccessful in finding it. It would have been nice to rewatch and get a fresh reference to what he said, I think all in all it was probably just bro science though.

 

[elusiveshame]

gonna add kyle kushman knows his shit… but he also knows how to twist shit to market it for profit. Thats the part we need to always question… who is gaining from what information.

like his chiropractic plant shit… just another take on pruning and defoliation with a name that seems to separate it from everything else and make it some new technique… which it isn’t …. But it’s effective and it works.

like this whole dam industry shit is just repacked and sold over and over again under a new name for profit

I like his videos as they’re well produced, but like you said, he knows how to market.

His “Kushman chiropractic” is interesting, and maybe I didn’t do it right, but it didn’t thicken the stalks like the 90 clips I used did.

And yeah. Almost every YouTube video I watch is just regurgitating the same information in a slightly different manner, just given some click baity name for the technique.

 

[Aqua Man]

Aquasquatch is lying to you. Plants uptake amino acids, which all have a carboxylic group. This is common knowledge. I don't know who pays him to push the hydro narrative he does, but it's nonsense. Plants uptake carbon. There is no argument.

Take chalk, add vinegar. You have calcium acetate. This is what microbes do. They attach carbon to minerals. This is how plants eat in nature. Not ions. The hydroponic method is a lie from hydroponic companies. Just like the vape pen entourage terpene myth is a joint lie from vape pen companies and pharmaceutical companies. Purple Kush gets its couch lock from anthranilic acid and tryptophan, not myrcene and linalool, for example.


There is no debate about flushing. Never has been. Feed excess nitrate in flower, you need to flush it, otherwise your plant is wasting energy on proteins it will never use. Excess carbonate needs to be flushed with silica otherwise the carbonate is left active in the cell wall, neutralizing carboxylic acids instead of building more out of C02. Etc etc etc. Excess phosphorus will form polyphosphates. How do you metabolize polyphosphates? Step one flush all P from the roots so the plant can try to catch up..

This is not a point anyone can argue, as anyone who doesn't grasp the basic concept does not have an argument. Simply put. Loud spectators cheering for a team, nothing more. At least Aquasquatch keeps his pants on when he runs across the field, I guess.

Soil health is not measured in EC, it is measured in carboxylic acid content. Carboxylic acids are what makes weed weed. You'd think more weed growers would take interest in what makes weed weed. But alas, the low quality hydroponically produced indica epidemic has turned the pot smoking masses into mindless sheep, looking for a pot celebrity to quote instead of thinking in terms of reality, where you can feed organic acids to plants and see the results in a couple hours.

Say no to hydro! Say no to indica! They obviously make you the stereotypical paranoid (defensive, argumentative uneducated) low iq lazy bum.

Yup all lies. With anything there are exceptions to the rules but yeah i guess michigan state lies also among a million other studies.

https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/what_organic_fertilizers_mean_to_plants_and_soil

and cut the personal shit or this time it will be for good

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

Aquasquatch is lying to you. Plants uptake amino acids, which all have a carboxylic group. This is common knowledge. I don't know who pays him to push the hydro narrative he does, but it's nonsense. Plants uptake carbon. There is no argument.

Take chalk, add vinegar. You have calcium acetate. This is what microbes do. They attach carbon to minerals. This is how plants eat in nature. Not ions. The hydroponic method is a lie from hydroponic companies. Just like the vape pen entourage terpene myth is a joint lie from vape pen companies and pharmaceutical companies. Purple Kush gets its couch lock from anthranilic acid and tryptophan, not myrcene and linalool, for example.


There is no debate about flushing. Never has been. Feed excess nitrate in flower, you need to flush it, otherwise your plant is wasting energy on proteins it will never use. Excess carbonate needs to be flushed with silica otherwise the carbonate is left active in the cell wall, neutralizing carboxylic acids instead of building more out of C02. Etc etc etc. Excess phosphorus will form polyphosphates. How do you metabolize polyphosphates? Step one flush all P from the roots so the plant can try to catch up..

This is not a point anyone can argue, as anyone who doesn't grasp the basic concept does not have an argument. Simply put. Loud spectators cheering for a team, nothing more. At least Aquasquatch keeps his pants on when he runs across the field, I guess.

Soil health is not measured in EC, it is measured in carboxylic acid content. Carboxylic acids are what makes weed weed. You'd think more weed growers would take interest in what makes weed weed. But alas, the low quality hydroponically produced indica epidemic has turned the pot smoking masses into mindless sheep, looking for a pot celebrity to quote instead of thinking in terms of reality, where you can feed organic acids to plants and see the results in a couple hours.

Say no to hydro! Say no to indica! They obviously make you the stereotypical paranoid (defensive, argumentative uneducated) low iq lazy bum.

No, he's not "lying" (to anyone) just concentrating on the important stuff so that new growers don't get confused (like you do with this blatant nonsense). Plants take up the majority of N in the form of nitrate - PERIOD. You just can't replace that, it's not like that hasn't been tried. Ammonia at higher dosages becomes phytotoxic, and all the while half of the N farmers fertilize worldwide is urea, that's due the "Haber-Bosch Verfahren" (still it either dissociates due to soil solution pH or microbes transform it into an ion.) It's the ion that can be actively (due to its electrical charge) handled by the plant.


Please consider reading this book
J. Benton Jones, Jr. How to Make Soil Fertility Plant Nutrition Principles Work.pdf

and forget your Youtube nonsense.

P.S.:
@Moe.Red
that DL is a great read if you don't have it already.

 

[N1ghtL1ght]

It's kinda sad that a great website is now down where this was explained in detail. Very crudely explained, roots can attract ions toward them (if they want to "eat") so let's say urea was fertilized then some of the urea will make it into the plant, just with the flow of water. That is then happening during the day, strongly influenced by transpiration and photosynthesis. Other molecules, for example, boric acid, share the same uptake kinetics.

Now if the urea is within the rhizosphere (the definition of the rhizosphere is actually the distance from which the plant can take ions in - said distance varies for the individual elements but it can be generally said about 2-4mm, whereas it is below 1mm in the case of phosphates, as the bound very strongly to soil and thus, mykorrhiza is needed to deliver that) and breaks apart into ammonium and nitrate, then the plant can just attract it and exchange it and clear the rhizosphere in a matter of hours, so this means it can take up a large amount of molecules actively as compared to the passive uptake of urea.

If we look at plant cells surface there are many openings, some are controlled, some are open. Alot of small molecules which flow dissolved in the water will just make it through some of these open channels, but a controlled active transporter just can do way more work. In the order of several magnitudes. It's also favourably because that gives a plant a certain level of control if it wants to have something in, or not.

 

[Aqua Man]

No, he's not "lying" (to anyone) just concentrating on the important stuff so that new growers don't get confused (like you do with this blatant nonsense). Plants take up the majority of N in the form of nitrate - PERIOD. You just can't replace that, it's not like that hasn't been tried. Ammonia at higher dosages becomes phytotoxic, and all the while half of the N farmers fertilize worldwide is urea, that's due the "Haber-Bosch Verfahren" (still it either dissociates due to soil solution pH or microbes transform it into an ion.) It's the ion that can be actively (due to its electrical charge) handled by the plant.


Please consider reading this book
J. Benton Jones, Jr. How to Make Soil Fertility Plant Nutrition Principles Work.pdf

and forget your Youtube nonsense.

P.S.:
@Moe.Red
that DL is a great read if you don't have it already.

I have watched urea convert to nitrate almost immediately when those bacteria are present…. You cant even get a reading on nitrite in water in some cases it happens so fast. Those bacteria are plentiful in soil everywhere although i have not tested the reaction time in soils i would imagine its very similar.

There is no doubt that there are other benefits provided to the plant with organics and the compounds that result.

What many of the church of organics seem to fail to understand is salts are a form its nothing more then a term used in chemistry to describe a bond yet somehow they fail to realize that even organic nutrients end up in salt form for a period of time

nitrogen was probably a poor example for me to use.

 

[Dirtbag]

Aquasquatch is lying to you. Plants uptake amino acids, which all have a carboxylic group. This is common knowledge. I don't know who pays him to push the hydro narrative he does, but it's nonsense. Plants uptake carbon. There is no argument.

Take chalk, add vinegar. You have calcium acetate. This is what microbes do. They attach carbon to minerals. This is how plants eat in nature. Not ions. The hydroponic method is a lie from hydroponic companies. Just like the vape pen entourage terpene myth is a joint lie from vape pen companies and pharmaceutical companies. Purple Kush gets its couch lock from anthranilic acid and tryptophan, not myrcene and linalool, for example.


There is no debate about flushing. Never has been. Feed excess nitrate in flower, you need to flush it, otherwise your plant is wasting energy on proteins it will never use. Excess carbonate needs to be flushed with silica otherwise the carbonate is left active in the cell wall, neutralizing carboxylic acids instead of building more out of C02. Etc etc etc. Excess phosphorus will form polyphosphates. How do you metabolize polyphosphates? Step one flush all P from the roots so the plant can try to catch up..

This is not a point anyone can argue, as anyone who doesn't grasp the basic concept does not have an argument. Simply put. Loud spectators cheering for a team, nothing more. At least Aquasquatch keeps his pants on when he runs across the field, I guess.

Soil health is not measured in EC, it is measured in carboxylic acid content. Carboxylic acids are what makes weed weed. You'd think more weed growers would take interest in what makes weed weed. But alas, the low quality hydroponically produced indica epidemic has turned the pot smoking masses into mindless sheep, looking for a pot celebrity to quote instead of thinking in terms of reality, where you can feed organic acids to plants and see the results in a couple hours.

Say no to hydro! Say no to indica! They obviously make you the stereotypical paranoid (defensive, argumentative uneducated) low iq lazy bum.

On a side note.. im curious to know wtf you are smokin'

 

[Moe.Red]

No, he's not "lying" (to anyone) just concentrating on the important stuff so that new growers don't get confused (like you do with this blatant nonsense). Plants take up the majority of N in the form of nitrate - PERIOD. You just can't replace that, it's not like that hasn't been tried. Ammonia at higher dosages becomes phytotoxic, and all the while half of the N farmers fertilize worldwide is urea, that's due the "Haber-Bosch Verfahren" (still it either dissociates due to soil solution pH or microbes transform it into an ion.) It's the ion that can be actively (due to its electrical charge) handled by the plant.


Please consider reading this book
J. Benton Jones, Jr. How to Make Soil Fertility Plant Nutrition Principles Work.pdf

and forget your Youtube nonsense.

P.S.:
@Moe.Red
that DL is a great read if you don't have it already.

Thanks for the tag in, I'll for sure read this later on the couch.

BTW I just deleted a post and a user up there ^^^ sorry if the thread and some replys don't quite add up. But Ken really needed to take a break.

 

[PipeCarver]

On a side note.. im curious to know wtf you are smokin'

Maybe we need a loony bin here, don't ban them ignore them and send them to a room full of loonies......It could be a fun read......I don't enter into these arguments but I get chuckle out of reading some of them. Just let them mingle behind a wall........like in a Zoo........There ya go exile them to the Zoo.

 

[Moe.Red]

Maybe we need a loony bin here, don't ban them ignore them and send them to a room full of loonies......It could be a fun read......I don't enter into these arguments but I get chuckle out of reading some of them. Just let them mingle behind a wall........like in a Zoo........There ya go exile them to the Zoo.

That's just crazy enough to work! PC the evil genius.

 

[Moe.Red]

I have watched urea convert to nitrate almost immediately when those bacteria are present…. You cant even get a reading on nitrite in water in some cases it happens so fast. Those bacteria are plentiful in soil everywhere although i have not tested the reaction time in soils i would imagine its very similar.

I'll bet I can pee in your fish tank enough for you to get a reading. Happy to. I got the time.

 

[Aqua Man]

I'll bet I can pee in your fish tank enough for you to get a reading. Happy to. I got the time.

Unfortunately i no longer have any but feel free to test this is your res lmao