A closer look at the UC

[opt1c]

let me put it this way; i have a lot more air stones in my under current buckets than i have in my reservoirs for flood&drain; hand watering; etc... mixed nutrients react a lot differently when you add oxygen to the equation; i consider the amount added in the under current to be insane in comparison to any other application save for other rdwc, sdwc, and aeroponics.... that being said you can get decent results running the h&g base, drip clean, and budxl... anything u don't leave in for just one week tends to play well in my experience... i'm not a fan of adding calmag unless i have to and i usually don't need to add it

Aside from that i've had the best results taking the air stones out of my reservoirs and just running one pump connected to a chiller; don't even have to scrub it out after change outs and i'm not even adding zone or any other sterilizers

sorry i don't take a lot of pics of fan leaves

 

[NorcalTom]

I wanna see up close and personal pics of your fan leaves and lower leaves if you have even a single flaw on them and they dont look like they are covered in oily velvet and bright green you can sit down and stfu for real lol...

I challenge the many members you speak of to do the same thing... If you never seen a hg rdwc plant tuned into perfection you wouldnt know better anyway...

Not trying to be a dick but there has been a ton of people trying to help you out and you keep shooting them down. I'm no master grower but you shouldn't rule anything out if there is a problem. You said you have great results even with this issue, is this really an issue if your still getting great results?If you want to see a flawless UC grow there are hundreds of threads with amazing results.
NCT

 

[woodsmaneh]

If it was an Iron issue it would show up first in the new growth, yellowing leaves. (yellow older growth is lack of N)

Iron def exhibits throughout the entire plant. Iron, along with amino acids, facilitates or limits photosynth which produces chloraphyll, which when inadequate causes yellowing.


You can say what I said as many ways as you want, and it does show first on new growth, if you don't catch it, it will spread.

I don't see how the mag pump would be an issue, unless your sugesting the iron sticks to the mag, it sure does not knock it out of supension?

Yes, iron availability is potentially disrupted by magnetic pumps, not common but something abnormal is happening for Mo, which is why it's being considered. The issue seems specific to H&G/Mo cause it doesn't seem a problem others are having.

And no it won't "knock it out", rather it creates insoluble mineral compounds less suitable for plant uptake.

Again you'r saying the same thing, were not the first people to use mag pumps to grow with. I think 20 years of people using them might find a problem. But could happen.

and I have never seen any buildup on the impellers. I use them in different sizes and have no issues with them. I have heard people say because they are magnetic they attract iron but thats crap.

You wouldn't see it unless it oxidized. With all due respect, these are issues that are common place in hydro since it's inception, not myths, just simple chemistry & physics. (disclaimer,I'm neither a chemist nor physicist:talking) Magnetic fields influence iron availability and unless it's acute, generally go on without notice.

Your right it could happen, but it does not. I have used many nutrients in the past and about 4 years ago heard the story about"mag pumps screw up my iron". I'm here to tell you there is nothing on the impellers, full stop. How do I know this, by looking through one of my scopes and I can take pixs with it up to 400x. I do this to check wear and prevent failure every grow. When a pump runs 24/7 it makes sence to check.


As for DO, plants can do well at 2 ppm, thrive at 4 ppm. So considering this than the 6-9 ppm range the UC operates in can be considered insane IMO.

Sure as an expression, you got me here.

I'm sure there is an explanation for what's happening and it is a process of elimination, so the purpose of my comments was to show other aresa might be more productive to explore than, mag drives cause a problem, not high on the list of culprits when you have enviormental issues, nutrients and the like.

And as for people bashing him WTF, he's looking for help

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Not trying to be a dick but there has been a ton of people trying to help you out and you keep shooting them down. I'm no master grower but you shouldn't rule anything out if there is a problem. You said you have great results even with this issue, is this really an issue if your still getting great results?If you want to see a flawless UC grow there are hundreds of threads with amazing results.
NCT

No im open to the suggestions im just talking to that guy in particular since he seems to know what hes talking about... The second part yes i would like to see photos that actually show detail... You can go through any of my journals and see what I have been doing in uc... Im not saying its not a good system I get really good results but its just not plush like I know it can be... Hence the purpose of this thread. All suggestions are welcome though feel free to share your opinion.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Exactly MonsterRobot, couldnt have said it better myself! This guy does not even know what a RDWC system is really. He also thinks you have to use H&G nutrients to turn out a flawless plant...LOL!

Not that H&G will not turn out some flawless plants as we have used Aqua Flakes for years in the UC system. Only products by H&G that I am not a fan of is the Shooting Powder and the Magic Green, but you can turn out just as good AND ...(wait for it......) BETTER plants with other brands, like DynaGro to name just one....LOL!!

And because the UC design is so freakin AWESOME you can turn out flawless plants with just about ANY mineral based nutrient system. IF you know what your doing that is...LOL!!

This has turned out to be a very entertaining thread!! Better than tv!!

Really I have ran personally pbp, ionic, gh, and hg... My friends have used cutting edge, canna, fox farms, advanced, humboldt, cns17, and dm just to name a few... I use hg cuz its better then all of those. And like I said show me your flawless plants im still waiting for pics... The only hg competition is dm imo that shit also does a good job. The issue at hand isnt how good the system works... The system design is fantastic the whole point of this thread is once again plant health in the uc not being up to par with another hydro system of the same method using the same proven recipe... Im trying to figure out why its not.. I dont think dumb ass comments from you is helping the cause... Unless you have a suggestion or an explination or a picture of your proven success you need to go on somewhere else cuz I dont believe you.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

This is my guess.. that's why when I added the top line to each bucket I saw great results.


PS The only difference is that my home system is running as a double barrel16 site, while the warehouse systems are only two row 16 site systems. Wondering if maybe waterflow is inadequate????

[/QUOTE]

A drip line huh... Im adding that to the list for sure of things to try...

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I have that EXACT (and I am completely identical) same creeping deficiency on my Bubbas, the leaves slowly turn bronze and dry out. The bizarre thing is my tissue sample analysis seems to be coming back relatively in line with all the proper nute amounts. My environment is also optimal and I see this creeping deficiency in all 3 of the systems that I am running in my warehouse. The funny thing is at my home project I have the same strain from the same cut running and they can handle twice as much light and are not showing the deficiency. I am feeding 630-600 (0.7) of H&G with a 1ml/gall Calmag and 0.5g/gallon epsom. That seems to have cured my problem at home. However, the exact same receipe is not curing this problem in any of my systems at the warehouse. Only slowing it down. Its driving me crazy


PS The only difference is that my home system is running as a double barrel16 site, while the warehouse systems are only two row 16 site systems. Wondering if maybe waterflow is inadequate????

Im glad I made this thread... Lets figure this shit out...

 

[hogan400]

I been busy busy this week so I missed a lot of new threads.

I had a very similar problem 3 yrs ago when I got a new tent for my veg. Looked identical to your problem, after research and discussion I found that its was "off gassing" from the inner reflective white liner. This was made of from a pvc compound. WEIRD thing was with t-5, no problem, with hps1000, PROBLEM!!

90% of our shit is made in china. In the aquarium world, we have been bombarded with plastic product off gassing like crazy, lot of em from beloved sunlight fucking supply. I know there has been tubing, tents, panda film, and portable dehueys that were all returned and kinda hidden from the customers. Pvc in the undercurrent is bonded and manf differently and will not cause problems. But tubing or any other pieces could be a problem....Look around and if it smells like plastic mixed w rubber like vinyl tubing then consider tossing it maybe....I would actually get light headed in the veg tent.... looking back now its bullshit and shoulda been tested first by the maker.

h400

 

[lifecycle]

I don't think its the UC or the H&G, I had that same sick plant look with my UC.

I do believe the copper used in the chillers condenser might have something to do with this issue. Copper becomes corrosive at a PH below 7.0
the lower the PH the more corrosive it becomes. The PH eats away at the copper in turn leaching it into your solution.

http://www.plumbingstore.com/copper_info.html

 

[NorcalTom]

No im open to the suggestions im just talking to that guy in particular since he seems to know what hes talking about... The second part yes i would like to see photos that actually show detail... You can go through any of my journals and see what I have been doing in uc... Im not saying its not a good system I get really good results but its just not plush like I know it can be... Hence the purpose of this thread. All suggestions are welcome though feel free to share your opinion.

I been busy busy this week so I missed a lot of new threads.

I had a very similar problem 3 yrs ago when I got a new tent for my veg. Looked identical to your problem, after research and discussion I found that its was "off gassing" from the inner reflective white liner. This was made of from a pvc compound. WEIRD thing was with t-5, no problem, with hps1000, PROBLEM!!

90% of our shit is made in china. In the aquarium world, we have been bombarded with plastic product off gassing like crazy, lot of em from beloved sunlight fucking supply. I know there has been tubing, tents, panda film, and portable dehueys that were all returned and kinda hidden from the customers. Pvc in the undercurrent is bonded and manf differently and will not cause problems. But tubing or any other pieces could be a problem....Look around and if it smells like plastic mixed w rubber like vinyl tubing then consider tossing it maybe....I would actually get light headed in the veg tent.... looking back now its bullshit and shoulda been tested first by the maker.

h400

I was also thinking gas off, During my failed build Bossman let me know how much pvc,paint and other oil based products gas off. I have started another and it is taking a few months to finish. my room is completly sealed and I can still smell paint and glue. If this system has been installed for some time I would think that its not gassing off but if you can smell it so can your plants. Good luck man hope you figure this out.
NCT

 

[NorcalTom]

I forgot to add when Bossman explained this, he also said to use some ono gel and it should take care of it. I didn't get any farther into detail but i'm sure he could explain if he is around.

 

[UCMENOW]

Insert sound of needle being pulled off spinning LP record

Here's where I'm a bit confused. Why not just say f-it and switch exclusively to your diy rdwc?

Seems if it works so well you'd be happy and move on, not waste your time rhetorically debating. It's clear the UC crushes it, which is why it's so popular. Inherent flaws like pvc issues would affect everyone and that doesn't seem the case. Trust me, I speak from experience as I have a plethora of UC's as do countless grower buddies of mine.

As for pvc, you can bet that every tube on your diyrdwc is pvc as well, just the flexi type, still pvc. Also, trust that all the pvc used iin the uc is made in the US by reputable ag manufacturers, cause that's how CC rolls.

As for adaquate circulation, really? If u run a UC, check the temps in your end buckets, if they are inconsistent with the first buckets up the pump size, it's that simple. You can be sure differences in flow aern't going to cause or solve plant deficiencies.

People, fellow growers and trolls, the UC is just a fugging hydro system, period. It's up to the operator to dial it in. If struggling with a nute, then try a different one. System letting you down, switch to another method (there's a shit ton).

My advice to QB, save yourself the agony of solving problems in the UC that don't exist and switch to your rdwc method that makes pretty plants. Unless there is a compelling reason not to switch I can't imagine what would stop you. Craigslist your UC's and move on.

 

[HydroRocks]

The problem QB and several others is having could be something as simple as how high in the net pot the plant is, combined with a slight water level issue or need for adjustment. Could be a combination of both factors or one or the other alone.

Another factor to consider is the type of medium being used initially, i.e. like a root plug vs a rock wool cube or something else.

A rock wool cube for example 4 inches in size would be set higher than say a small 3 inch tall root plug, and both of those factors would relate to the water level height adjustments accordingly to maintain healthy plants.

A constantly changing water level factor combined with the above factors allowing certain areas in the net pot to get too dry can also cause the symptoms QB and others described.

Certain areas of the net pot and media will or may have biology present, and a changing water level can wipe them out easily for example which would cause a noticeable decrease in plant health like described by QB.

If there happen to be roots in that same area of the net pot that gets to dry/wet then guess what will happen up above to the plant??

These are just a couple things that could easily cause the problems described and none of them are design flaws, it is ALL user error. And NONE of these issues would be hard to fix either.

The UC system by design makes it one of the most SIMPLE systems to diagnose/troubleshoot and fix plant issues in. Process of elimination will easily fix 99% of any problems that a grower may encounter or that may arise from user error.

It is a VERY well thought out system that was tested for YEARS before its release to the public.

Cheers!

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Here's where I'm a bit confused. Why not just say f-it and switch exclusively to your diy rdwc?

Seems if it works so well you'd be happy and move on, not waste your time rhetorically debating. It's clear the UC crushes it, which is why it's so popular. Inherent flaws like pvc issues would affect everyone and that doesn't seem the case. Trust me, I speak from experience as I have a plethora of UC's as do countless grower buddies of mine.

As for pvc, you can bet that every tube on your diyrdwc is pvc as well, just the flexi type, still pvc. Also, trust that all the pvc used iin the uc is made in the US by reputable ag manufacturers, cause that's how CC rolls.

As for adaquate circulation, really? If u run a UC, check the temps in your end buckets, if they are inconsistent with the first buckets up the pump size, it's that simple. You can be sure differences in flow aern't going to cause or solve plant deficiencies.

People, fellow growers and trolls, the UC is just a fugging hydro system, period. It's up to the operator to dial it in. If struggling with a nute, then try a different one. System letting you down, switch to another method (there's a shit ton).

My advice to QB, save yourself the agony of solving problems in the UC that don't exist and switch to your rdwc method that makes pretty plants. Unless there is a compelling reason not to switch I can't imagine what would stop you. Craigslist your UC's and move on.

See thats the thing... I like the UC im not trying to switch up... Yes ive had better plant health in a regular rdwc but the uc is superior in the ease of use and overall design... Plus im a technician by nature... My goal here isnt to down the UC I just wanna figure out whats wrong so the UC at least in my gardens can produce the same results as a rdwc... I have been a uc user since day 1 I dont plan on getting rid of them. Not only that but you can see im not the pnly person having this problem... 2 people chimed in on this thread already saying that my problem is their exact problem... Thats just thc farm members who actually post, what about the uc users who dont post on the farm? How many other people is this happening to? I think we owe it to the UC using world to figure out whats going on and why... Providing we figure this out there could be a lot of people sleeping better at night... Im a UC grower till the end Im not gonna give up on it that easy.

 

[UCMENOW]

High Aeration Destabilization of Chelated Minerals

See thats the thing... I like the UC im not trying to switch up... Yes ive had better plant health in a regular rdwc but the uc is superior in the ease of use and overall design... Plus im a technician by nature... My goal here isnt to down the UC I just wanna figure out whats wrong so the UC at least in my gardens can produce the same results as a rdwc... I have been a uc user since day 1 I dont plan on getting rid of them. Not only that but you can see im not the pnly person having this problem... 2 people chimed in on this thread already saying that my problem is their exact problem... Thats just thc farm members who actually post, what about the uc users who dont post on the farm? How many other people is this happening to? I think we owe it to the UC using world to figure out whats going on and why... Providing we figure this out there could be a lot of people sleeping better at night... Im a UC grower till the end Im not gonna give up on it that easy.

I dig u. Just thinking it's odd that you still circle back to it being an issue with the uc vs your H&G nutes reacting poorly in a higher aeration environment.

Keep in mind that the H&G Aqua Flakes bottles originally stated "do not use in aerated reservoirs". I realize the company said it was a mistake in labeling but was it? After all it was the chemists and formulators that dictate the directions for use with the nute they blend, right?

IMO, Hum Whole got tired of answering questions in regards to this and asked the label be changed to exclude this disclaimer, and it was. Unfortunately no one changed the formulation to make it any more compatible with high aeration.

pHuP also uses H&G from what I remember reading and is experiencing similar issues. My guess is the system he's referring to that's not at the warehouse is being aerated less and performing better as a result.

Hey, keep crusading for change in the UC if that suits u. But for what it's worth, I'm putting my money on it being nute related. Heaven forbid it be H&G's problem, after all that nute line is perfect right?

Looking for anyone using a nute other than H&G having this issue.....anyone?

 

[MonsterRobot]

I had a similar issue with a few plants in my warehouse a year or so ago (it was in ebb and gro not UC so not sure if it is related)... It looked like mg def and a bit of cal def too but adding those didn't do anything... After a while I realized that the plants that were closest to my CO2 Burner were the ones that were showing that problem the most... Maybe it is CO2 related and the ones closer to the burner are getting some burn from that?

Not sure if you are having this issue on all of your plants or just a few in the system...
Good luck man

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I dig u. Just thinking it's odd that you still circle back to it being an issue with the uc vs your H&G nutes reacting poorly in a higher aeration environment.

Keep in mind that the H&G Aqua Flakes bottles originally stated "do not use in aerated reservoirs". I realize the company said it was a mistake in labeling but was it? After all it was the chemists and formulators that dictate the directions for use with the nute they blend, right?

IMO, Hum Whole got tired of answering questions in regards to this and asked the label be changed to exclude this disclaimer, and it was. Unfortunately no one changed the formulation to make it any more compatible with high aeration.

pHuP also uses H&G from what I remember reading and is experiencing similar issues. My guess is the system he's referring to that's not at the warehouse is being aerated less and performing better as a result.

Hey, keep crusading for change in the UC if that suits u. But for what it's worth, I'm putting my money on it being nute related. Heaven forbid it be H&G's problem, after all that nute line is perfect right?

Looking for anyone using a nute other than H&G having this issue.....anyone?

Me too I wanna see some pics lol... Yes it could be hg im not ruling that out... I just dont understand why it would work fantastic in everything else but the uc... As far as the uc being so ultra high performance we all know thats a sales pitch like a mf... I sell shit to people all day long you aint about to convince me that the uc is doing anything different then anything else besides maybe flowing faster because to my understanding the water can only hold so much dissolvd o2. If you run hg or anything other then hg and have lush silky oily looking plants from top to bottom with not a single fucked up leaf on your plants please post pics on this thread i am interested in your results.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I had a similar issue with a few plants in my warehouse a year or so ago (it was in ebb and gro not UC so not sure if it is related)... It looked like mg def and a bit of cal def too but adding those didn't do anything... After a while I realized that the plants that were closest to my CO2 Burner were the ones that were showing that problem the most... Maybe it is CO2 related and the ones closer to the burner are getting some burn from that?

Not sure if you are having this issue on all of your plants or just a few in the system...
Good luck man

This has also crossed my mind for sure I used a burner on the other rdwc setup though and never had it happen... I got 2 uc rooms now both with burners... I got my closest cycle scheduled to come down in about 4 weeks ill try the next grow with no burner just to rule it out.

 

[UCMENOW]

Wow. Guess your right QB.

lol....sales pitch? I'm saying ditch the UC if you get healthier plants doing something other.Apparently I'm taking far too logical approach to this problem solving session.

Keep us abreast of your ground breaking conclusions.

viva la H&G

 

[QuarterbackMo]

This is a past run in the uc... They look great right? This is a straight up hg grow in the uc...