best qb light setup for 4x8 i can order right now.

[redshift75]

i guess now im just stuck on what the final quantity i should get is. And the final choice on spectrum. Im torn between the 3k and 3500k. But then again the idea of mixing 3k and 4k seems tempting. But if its not something that is commonly offered seems id be adding a whole nother variable in the mix that takes away from a standardized component.

im also really torn between getting the 660nm red in the panel or going straight lm301b as it seems the claims of more lumen on H are largely gimmick. But there is some benefits to the way they are wired? idk seems like it crosses into gimmick for b/h

 

[threatco]

To the no one has been reporting epistars. pretty much every post i was on that was recent has some mention of dont buy the QB with epistar chipsets they arent efficient, they burn out fast, yada yada yada. Is this them parroting the industry? is it one brands disinformation against another? I dont know thats where collective minds and experiences prevail. Just seems the consensus is it's "Less worth it than getting white diodes fully on the board". Since i have no first hand experience with these brands i cant say what they will do.

Yes. I think the burn out concern is over-hyped on the epistar chips. Every negative thing I find is something they "heard". I have not seen anyone actually complain of theirs burning out. My 2-year-old King Plus LED (10w DC Epistar LED blurple) is still just is bright on the lux detector as my newer one. No burnouts. And somewhat rough handling.

1) Is having 660nm to supplement the white diodes important?

I think the common consensus is yes. It will positively impact you g/watt regardless of how you individually measure LED efficiency. It's what the flowers need.

2) Is having UV and IR diodes important?

More debatable. Likely to influence quality more than quantity. UV diodes have more of a reputation for failing.

3) If you answer yes to either of the above, do you want to supplement with other lights?

No, because you are running an experiment.

4) But what about them burning out?

If they burn out, or dim, that is part of the experiment.

But since they are on a switch and will only be used <20% of the grow I think it's unlikely they will be the first part to have an issue.

5) What is the opportunity cost of including these things?

The version I am getting has 512 pcs Samsung lm301B SK leds+24pcs Epistar 660nm+4pcs UV+4pcs IR

The version without it runs 576 white diodes across 2 boards

It could be argued that you will get more maximum usable light output as measured in umol with the pure white. This would be important if you did not have enough light overall. But with 5-6 light you will have more than enough light to cap out anyways.

When turning off that "feature" switch, it is kind of like dimming the 576 diodes by 12% as far as electricity costs go.

You also want to directly dim them to get maximum lifespan and efficiency. With 5x512 diodes in your tent, I would argue you could still dim them this theoretical amount and still meet your maximum light needs.

So unless you for some reason calculate that unless you go pure white, you will not have enough overall light without buying a whole new light, then I would still recommend you go for the version with features on board.

Abby - for each board, there are 2 pcs UV and 2pcs IR in it.. there are 4 board in one 480w quantum board.. so total has 8pcs UV and 8pcs IR

 

[redshift75]

Yes. I think the burn out concern is over-hyped on the epistar chips. Every negative thing I find is something they "heard". I have not seen anyone actually complain of theirs burning out. My 2-year-old King Plus LED (10w DC Epistar LED blurple) is still just is bright on the lux detector as my newer one. No burnouts. And somewhat rough handling.

1) Is having 660nm to supplement the white diodes important?

I think the common consensus is yes. It will positively impact you g/watt regardless of how you individually measure LED efficiency. It's what the flowers need.

2) Is having UV and IR diodes important?

More debatable. Likely to influence quality more than quantity. UV diodes have more of a reputation for failing.

3) If you answer yes to either of the above, do you want to supplement with other lights?

No, because you are running an experiment.

4) But what about them burning out?

If they burn out, or dim, that is part of the experiment.

But since they are on a switch and will only be used <20% of the grow I think it's unlikely they will be the first part to have an issue.

5) What is the opportunity cost of including these things?

The version I am getting has 512 pcs Samsung lm301B SK leds+24pcs Epistar 660nm+4pcs UV+4pcs IR

The version without it runs 576 white diodes across 2 boards

It could be argued that you will get more maximum usable light output as measured in umol with the pure white. This would be important if you did not have enough light overall. But with 5-6 light you will have more than enough light to cap out anyways.

When turning off that "feature" switch, it is kind of like dimming the 576 diodes by 12% as far as electricity costs go.

You also want to directly dim them to get maximum lifespan and efficiency. With 5x512 diodes in your tent, I would argue you could still dim them this theoretical amount and still meet your maximum light needs.

So unless you for some reason calculate that unless you go pure white, you will not have enough overall light without buying a whole new light, then I would still recommend you go for the version with features on board.

View attachment 969983

Abby - for each board, there are 2 pcs UV and 2pcs IR in it.. there are 4 board in one 480w quantum board.. so total has 8pcs UV and 8pcs IR

now that was best response ive ever gotten. I like how it was presented. Like you pointed out thats part of the experiment. what was final price on the board with UV/IR Switch? I agree 100% on thats just something i heard sentiment. Again it could be 1 company marketing against another company to discredit them. Im not certain but it presents a valid point.

 

[threatco]

now that was best response ive ever gotten. I like how it was presented. Like you pointed out thats part of the experiment. what was final price on the board with UV/IR Switch? I agree 100% on thats just something i heard sentiment. Again it could be 1 company marketing against another company to discredit them. Im not certain but it presents a valid point.

Aww thanks for the compliment. I delayed my GFs dabs to make that all neat and organized.

As for what kind of white light to go with, I wouldn't overthink it. I messaged the guy who runs https://420expertguide.com/ and his reply is what made me settle on asking for the mix. But not important I don't think.

 

[Aqua Man]

i guess now im just stuck on what the final quantity i should get is. And the final choice on spectrum. Im torn between the 3k and 3500k. But then again the idea of mixing 3k and 4k seems tempting. But if its not something that is commonly offered seems id be adding a whole nother variable in the mix that takes away from a standardized component.

im also really torn between getting the 660nm red in the panel or going straight lm301b as it seems the claims of more lumen on H are largely gimmick. But there is some benefits to the way they are wired? idk seems like it crosses into gimmick for b/h

I remember when they first came out there was some info that it was marketing then I heard there is a slight difference but extremely minimal. I can't say for certain.

 

[redshift75]

I remember when they first came out there was some info that it was marketing then I heard there is a slight difference but extremely minimal. I can't say for certain.

thats what it appears. From what i can tell the 52,000 lumen claim over 44,000 lumen (or something like that) is mostly chinese gimmick claims. Not from samsung. Seeing some of the videos of people using the meters they appear that whatever is the difference has to do with conditions that arent met in our usage... maybe? they say its got the sulfur coating and the wires or w.e but i dont read people saying we need salt water level protection on these boards.
so for the $30 difference given some of the data ive seen others collecting. Seems whatever the difference is, id probably never experience and would only fail to appreciate the perceived benefits in my setup. Other then possibly saying its the horticulture diode yadayadayada


maybe im mistaken? but there seems to be no downside or upside at face value to saying your diodes are one or the other. Not the same as when compared to the comparison made of the previous generations 561c diodes. Again maybe ive misinterpreted it. But thats where the information has lead me to conclude.

 

[Aqua Man]

thats what it appears. From what i can tell the 52,000 lumen claim over 44,000 lumen (or something like that) is mostly chinese gimmick claims. Not from samsung. Seeing some of the videos of people using the meters they appear that whatever is the difference has to do with conditions that arent met in our usage... maybe? they say its got the sulfur coating and the wires or w.e but i dont read people saying we need salt water level protection on these boards.
so for the $30 difference given some of the data ive seen others collecting. Seems whatever the difference is, id probably never experience and would only fail to appreciate the perceived benefits in my setup. Other then possibly saying its the horticulture diode yadayadayada


maybe im mistaken? but there seems to be no downside or upside at face value to saying your diodes are one or the other. Not the same as when compared to the comparison made of the previous generations 561c diodes. Again maybe ive misinterpreted it. But thats where the information has lead me to conclude.

I think your right

 

[redshift75]

now if independent testing showed the other board was infact 40k odd lumens and the H board was in fact 50k+ lumens. Would be an easy subject to say "yeah definitely get the H". But it really looks like their marketing claims are to offset the cost of latest chips. Thus the inflated values. saying "this one is for horticulture" doesnt really sell a product for $30 more with out some claim to a perceived notion the latest generation is better. it could end up biting me in the bud, and some where down the road people will talk about how the H was the greatest thing to come since dab. But since it hasnt hit that mark im not going to buy into the marketing claim. Now if it were a case of top bin or mid bin id say there would be different factors to consider. But given the vendors history and reputation that doesnt seem to be the case.

 

[Aqua Man]

now if independent testing showed the other board was infact 40k odd lumens and the H board was in fact 50k+ lumens. Would be an easy subject to say "yeah definitely get the H". But it really looks like their marketing claims are to offset the cost of latest chips. Thus the inflated values. saying "this one is for horticulture" doesnt really sell a product for $30 more with out some claim to a perceived notion the latest generation is better. it could end up biting me in the bud, and some where down the road people will talk about how the H was the greatest thing to come since dab. But since it hasnt hit that mark im not going to buy into the marketing claim. Now if it were a case of top bin or mid bin id say there would be different factors to consider. But given the vendors history and reputation that doesnt seem to be the case.

Agree... I did hear somewhere before it was a bin thing but I can't confirm if that true or not. Like I say it's been a while for me

 

[threatco]

Besides the spec sheets I linked earlier showing they are the same, read Samsungs own news release about the LM301H

Samsung Sets New Photon Efficacy Level in White LED Packages for Indoor Farms | Samsung LED | Samsung LED Global Website

Samsung Electronics announced an industry-leading enhancement to its mid-power LED package – the LM301H – for horticulture applications, such as greenhouse and vertical farming*. At 3.10 micromoles per joule (μmol/J), the newly introduced LM301H now features the highest photon efficacy** among...

www.samsung.com

They literally say nothing about it being an upgrade or improvement over the LM301B chip.

The wording leads me to continue to think there is no physical difference. Not a different bin, different factory. Not a different coating. Not a different resistance to elements.

It's the exact same diode, but they tasked a marketing team with coming up with campaigns for horticulture purposes. That's it. Every claim they say about it being the best for this or that applies to the B version as well, they just don't waste budget and marketing focus by pasting those claims on the B version.

When selling Ice Cubes to a Restaurant vs to an Ice Scupltor. It makes sense to sell the restaurant Ice101A and talk about how safe it is to drink and what metals are in it. Then also sell the same exact ice as Ice101B, but sell it to sculptors and talk about it's rigidity, uniformity, reflectivity etc...

Both ice cubes made in the same freezer, cut with the same knife, shipped in the same truck. But 2 different labels, brands, and spec sheets for 2 different markets.

FYI they charge the sculptors more because they think it makes their art look better.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Besides the spec sheets I linked earlier showing they are the same, read Samsungs own news release about the LM301H

Samsung Sets New Photon Efficacy Level in White LED Packages for Indoor Farms | Samsung LED | Samsung LED Global Website

Samsung Electronics announced an industry-leading enhancement to its mid-power LED package – the LM301H – for horticulture applications, such as greenhouse and vertical farming*. At 3.10 micromoles per joule (μmol/J), the newly introduced LM301H now features the highest photon efficacy** among...

www.samsung.com

They literally say nothing about it being an upgrade or improvement over the LM301B chip.

The wording leads me to continue to think there is no physical difference. Not a different bin, different factory. Not a different coating. Not a different resistance to elements.

It's the exact same diode, but they tasked a marketing team with coming up with campaigns for horticulture purposes. That's it. Every claim they say about it being the best for this or that applies to the B version as well, they just don't waste budget and marketing focus by pasting those claims on the B version.

When selling Ice Cubes to a Restaurant vs to an Ice Scupltor. It makes sense to sell the restaurant Ice101A and talk about how safe it is to drink and what metals are in it. Then also sell the same exact ice as Ice101B, but sell it to sculptors and talk about it's rigidity, uniformity, reflectivity etc...

Both ice cubes made in the same freezer, cut with the same knife, shipped in the same truck. But 2 different labels, brands, and spec sheets for 2 different markets.

FYI they charge the sculptors more because they think it makes their art look better.

Actually the article says they are 4% more efficient than the last version.

 

[redshift75]

Actually the article says they are 4% more efficient than the last version.

thats nice to consider thank you for that. Thats the goal is efficiency here.

 

[MIMedGrower]

thats nice to consider thank you for that. Thats the goal is efficiency here.

Honestly a 4% more efficient lamp will not be noticed unless the grow is consistant and perfectly dialed in.

Better watering technique can increase yield 4% even so it would be quite hard to tell what was improved.

 

[redshift75]

Honestly a 4% more efficient lamp will not be noticed unless the grow is consistant and perfectly dialed in.

Better watering technique can increase yield 4% even so it would be quite hard to tell what was improved.

I think what it breaks down to is the goal is to see if i can make it efficient enough that it becomes a profitable ROI if someone can make the argument i didnt get a 4% more efficient lap at the time. Then one must go 4% more efficient. lol There will always be that one guy that thinks that 4% was the difference between a gram and a kilo.


But i agree with your sentiment.


Edit: i guess one could also argue the cost over achieving an extra 4% to the criteria of the experiment. It not being a great enough value to justify a 20% price increase for a 4% gain. Does that sound right to others?

 

[redshift75]

I was also reading that i could possibly get better efficiency with different meanwell drivers. I havent researched that as i havent gotten past the panels/diode/configuration yet.

 

[threatco]

As a result of this industry-leading photon efficacy, lighting manufacturers can use 30 percent fewer packages in each luminaire to achieve the same efficacy level as the previous version of the LM301H, allowing for smaller and lighter lamp designs as well as lowered manufacturing costs. In addition, by using the same number of packages, the light efficiency of a luminaire can be improved by at least four percent, enabling indoor farms to reduce their energy use.

I don't think its referring to the LM301B as being the previous version.

I was also reading that i could possibly get better efficiency with different meanwell drivers. I havent researched that as i havent gotten past the panels/diode/configuration yet.

My suggestion is this.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

Grab 5 of these. Mix 3000k+4000k LM301B diodes on it. And away ya go.

 

[redshift75]

As a result of this industry-leading photon efficacy, lighting manufacturers can use 30 percent fewer packages in each luminaire to achieve the same efficacy level as the previous version of the LM301H, allowing for smaller and lighter lamp designs as well as lowered manufacturing costs. In addition, by using the same number of packages, the light efficiency of a luminaire can be improved by at least four percent, enabling indoor farms to reduce their energy use.

I don't think its referring to the LM301B as being the previous version.


My suggestion is this.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

www.alibaba.com

Grab 5 of these. Mix 3000k+4000k LM301B diodes on it. And away ya go.

and then just flip the switch when you go flower? I also dont think i want to go that route of having them make me custom panels. id rather grab one they have ready. id rather not wait on custom panels to get a blend. but it does seem interesting.

 

[threatco]

and then just flip the switch when you go flower? I also dont think i want to go that route of having them make me custom panels. id rather grab one they have ready. id rather not wait on custom panels to get a blend. but it does seem interesting.

That is a fair concern. You do have to talk to their salesperson to explain what you want anyways, there is no "order now" kind of button. Easy to explain what you want.

UPS just got my lights after ordering Apr 24ths. Looking in that Chinese LED thread, it seems most people waited that long this month without custom orders. Individual mileage may vary.

 

[redshift75]

as much as id like to go the IR/UV i dont think i want to spend the $30 a set extra. its kind of like i can get 6 for the price of 5 of those. I feel like 6 is better than 5. yeah it sucks for the ir uv thing. but its w.e

 

[threatco]

as much as id like to go the IR/UV i dont think i want to spend the $30 a set extra. its kind of like i can get 6 for the price of 5 of those. I feel like 6 is better than 5. yeah it sucks for the ir uv thing. but its w.e

I feel ya. As far as best g/w with the least upfront cost, that could be the way to go.

I just hope you don't get tempted down the road to add supplement lighting and say fuck it to the experimental premise.