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Finding out the Virus sequencing is very important to the cannabis community. Specific phenos have been around to long just to let them go to waste by throwing them out based on a hunch. $1000(s) is a drop in a bucket to keep strains and long running phenos alive. The problem is that not a lot of labs will do the testing for the cannabis industry because of the legalities. They will soon open the doors to our community but hopefully not to late. I will continue to be in search of labs in the area.Iam suprised that with big legal grows in the states that allow it that this hasnt been done yet. Or maybe it has and the ops arent making the findings public to squash competition? And let the mysterious "dudding syndrome" continue its wallet draining course. Hell..I dont know.
I would think in rec legal states like Cali and Colorado that regular greenhouse ag crop testing labs would be open now to do the testing. Big hot house tomato and veggie crop grower operations send leaf tissue samples into these labs on a routine basis to get accurate analysis reports and results of mineral/nutrient content for fertigation profile make up. As well as brix levels and plant disease/problem analysis. I would be suprised if big cannabis warehouse or greenhouse operations (they are popping up everywhere in legal rec states) havent at least thought about lab analysis of cannabis tissue. Its part of routine and par for the course in the regular veggie/fruit grower ag world. No reason for the greenhouse lab world to be scared away still. In legal states anywAys. Its not legal federally..yet. But its heading that way. I dont know. But the labs should open the doors to the legal cannabis growing boom. The money is there just like thw regular ag crop worlds money. Could Steep Hill Labs out west do this kind of testing? Or do they just test final product thc/terpene analysis reports?Finding out the Virus sequencing is very important to the cannabis community. Specific phenos have been around to long just to let them go to waste by throwing them out based on a hunch. $1000(s) is a drop in a bucket to keep strains and long running phenos alive. The problem is that not a lot of labs will do the testing for the cannabis industry because of the legalities. They will soon open the doors to our community but hopefully not to late. I will continue to be in search of labs in the area.
I would think in rec legal states like Cali and Colorado that regular greenhouse ag crop testing labs would be open now to do the testing. Big hot house tomato and veggie crop grower operations send leaf tissue samples into these labs on a routine basis to get accurate analysis reports and results of mineral/nutrient content for fertigation profile make up. As well as brix levels and plant disease/problem analysis. I would be suprised if big cannabis warehouse or greenhouse operations (they are popping up everywhere in legal rec states) havent at least thought about lab analysis of cannabis tissue. Its part of routine and par for the course in the regular veggie/fruit grower ag world. No reason for the greenhouse lab world to be scared away still. In legal states anywAys. Its not legal federally..yet. But its heading that way. I dont know. But the labs should open the doors to the legal cannabis growing boom. The money is there just like thw regular ag crop worlds money. Could Steep Hill Labs out west do this kind of testing? Or do they just test final product thc/terpene analysis reports?
Hey We Solidarity,I and many other members on the farm have been searching for a thread on this to no avail. Hopefully this thread helps us figure out what, exactly, this dudding syndrome is.
So when I clone off of a mother plant I have a few genetics that will throw "duds". dud plants grow regular until some point in the first two months when they will suddenly stop normal growth, throw out tiny leaves with lots (7-9) of blades, lots of nodes, and usually will throw large mature pistils at the nodes. Trying to bend the branches usually will break the branch off, and over time the plant's healthy leaves will turn necrotic and begin twisting/dying.
Plants that dud out never produce a decent yield and almost always have a sub-par smell (if any) and very few trichomes. They also smoke like shit.
I'll dig through for some pictures but it's strangely difficult to photograph, even next to a comparison plant.
Any ideas as to what we're seeing? I'm looking near and far for a lab that can do testing for various viruses, the top of the list are Barley Yellow Dwarf Virus (transmitted by aphids) and Fusarium, although these syptoms don't match the syptoms of fusarium I've heard reports from commercial growers of duds testing positive.
Another possibility is a carbon drain on the plant due to an overabundance of nutrient-mobilizing fungi, @DowNwithDirT was looking into this and hopefully can swing in to shed some light (he's been busy winning cups and popping beans so we'll see)
Even still, it could be caused by some sort of change in the media when soilless media is overwatered (oxygen deprivation : overfertilization?) since this problem seems to be mostly in soilless mixes.
let's go, what you got to add?!
This post has been edited to add the following:
Hey Nightmare! Do you still practice TC? I don't know if you do it for other people but I would be happy to contract you for this process.Yes, I plan on using Meristem Tissue cultures. Here's a picture to get an idea on how it works. Even if I can't figure out what is causing it, I can at least fix the problem. All my strains are going into tissue culture. Everything will be killed off and sterilized.
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Some symptoms. Random leaf twisting.
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Pictures of my past work with my flow hood and agar cultures.
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Pictures of my old flow hood when it was unfinished.
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New flow hood that is getting built, it's unfinished. View attachment 407933
It's been a long time since I originally posted in this thread. I have spent the past couple nights reading the entire thing.
2 years ago I received a cut from Canada that brought "duds" to my garden. I had GG4 a year before this and many other cuts and NEVER had a problem until this shitty cut made it's way in. I had never grown this particular strain, and it was a real bitch to root and grew like shit. I finally got a tester in to a bed. Well, that plant was a dud and in that same bed there were 7 other plants. Two of them had branches that dudded. Figured it was some weird random shit. Like an idiot I took soil from those beds and potted up other plants, that eventually found their way to other beds... and pretty soon it was a plant here, a plant there, a half a bed here, a full bed there...
I think it is important to note that a lot of people in this thread think they have duds, but they do not.
Dud symptoms are:
-Brittle stems (easiest way to identify-Shorter node spacing
-smaller fan leaves
-lateral branching
-Terrible trich production on fluffier, hairier buds
Variegation is not really a symptom of "dud", neither is leaf twisting, or crispy leaves, or nutrient deficiencies...
In my opinion, the culprit is stem nematodes. I successfully identified them in my garden thanks to people like @whatthe215, except I could not find them with his method. I instead used a pair of vice grips to crush a section of trunk while dripping a little water over the crushed part and on to a slide. This is a much better way to find them.
Here is a video I made of them:
After identifying them, I purchased a professional steamer (didn't work) and ultimately a large water heater to soak the soil with 160* water between runs (worked like a charm). I also added chitosan at 1/2 gram per gallon weekly, and lots of foliar and root pack.
Hot water fucks them up bigtime. I no longer have dud plants.
High temps in the room will also cause dudded flowers, especially on OG's. I think that if you see dudded flowers, try dropping temps to 71-74 for the whole grow and see if the strain still duds out... Dudded flowers are not the same as dudded plants. Dudded plants can be saved if you always take a healthy top for a cut, and continue to cull duds (you will become an expert at identifying them) and take healthy tops for a good long while. IME the nematodes have a hard time getting all the way to the tops. It really is a race against time though. You have to pull a cut before the plant is a full blown dud. Once it is full blown just toss it. I have cloned out of dudded FPOG, GG4, white bubba, Jew Gold, Wifi 43... so it is possible.
I now have a dud free operation and have had several successful runs of nortorious dudders (gg4, Jew Gold, etc). Be diligent and you can beat it. I have had it all, and not once have I scrapped a whole grow. Everything can be beaten, and kept away with a good IPM strategy.
Peace out and happy growing,
Cap
Dark Heart Nursery (DHN) proudly announces that it is the first organization to positively identify hop latent viroid (HpLVd) as the cause of “dudding” in cannabis. Since 2018, DHN has also been successfully testing for and eliminating HpLVd through a patent-pending clean plant process.
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