Gh 3 Part Coco And Plants Dying Wtf.... Please Help..

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bicky studs

bicky studs

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then....measure as often as u like but dont try and adjust everytime
+-100 ppm is normal if it gets +-200 try add extra feed.... adjust by 100ppm if needed.... depending on growthphase and actual frequency
 
bicky studs

bicky studs

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im guessing it is with all this 1/4 feed talk.
you need to get a few days regular feeding going.
i would do a bit more runoff for now
dont let em get light!
start lifting your pots before and after you feed. get a feel for em. i guess you remember how they feel dry. thats the last time:badboy::D
i would say dont let em go under a 1/3rd thier wet wieght.... stay on the safe side, once they have roots you wont be drowning them.
some1 could cherp in and correct this if wrong:eyepiece:
 
bicky studs

bicky studs

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then....measure as often as u like but dont try and adjust everytime
+-100 ppm is normal if it gets +-200 try add extra feed.... adjust by 100ppm if needed.... depending on growthphase and actual frequency
with the perfect enviroment, plants will eat and consume water at the same rate... so +- 200 is a good range...in my opinion...:)
 
P

PharmHand

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Some wonderful reply's on coco here.

I try to stress that it's not a matter of "over watering" coco. It's a matter of depriving oxygen to the roots. The longer you wait to feed the more oxygen is depleted in the root zone. If you wait long enough(2 or more days on average) you do get more oxygen via drying however that's when one invites EC spikes and pH swings. Dry coco is like chaos. It's unpredictable in every way and causes a myriad of phantoms to show up. Feeding daily pretty much clears any problems one can run into with coco aside from overfeeding.

If roots could get too wet then DWC would never work nor would these Coco Hempy's I just ran work either.

That bottom layer of perlite acted as passive 2" reservoir of nutrient solution that the roots sat in for veg and flower. Normally you would think they would go stagnant and rot but because I fed daily oxygen levels were kept up and the roots never suffocated.
0f0e452e-3bdb-479f-a6b2-517fd8e1c652-jpeg.804279


Here you can see the roots had no problem living in the passive reservoir of perlite.
87b492eb-2cf5-406d-b5a9-0b5a72da4945-jpeg.804282


I have a small coco root health tutorial link for you posted below. I hope that it helps brings some understanding on how coco functions.

COCO ROOT HEALTH
Are those what your roots looked like at chop? Or earlier in plants life? What size pots? Nice job man
 
justiceman

justiceman

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First off thanks everyone for posting for help. i really want to get this. I spent the morning cleaning and thinking alot about this.

and this comment is what trips me out. bc this is my old way of thinking. I grew trees for years in 5 gallon coco perilite mix with a 3 part cutting edge and floralicious plus.
would always feed. ph 6 and let dry 2 to 3 days. feed to runoff. repeat

where i started thinking different is when i saw this guy from icmag killing it for yield in coco. and thats where i always lacked. normal pound per thousand.

he was getting like 2.7 per

was like what the fuck am i doing...

now i have 600s and went from 3 gallon to 2 gallon to feed more.

Then i see the roots guys are getting.never ever had that.

soo i changed. to feed every day to runoff once a day to runoff.

feed evertime

so what is happening in my opinion is that the ec rises and the ph drops over a week period. a flush once a week wasnt not helping. ec rises more when i feed again and booom. now i know what a salt build up looks like.

2 days ago when they showed no sign of recovery i bought florakleen and used 1.5ml per gallon. yesterday feed a 4 mico 4 grow 2 bloom ph 6 without using any ph adjustment 520 ppm

today i have new growth and am making a feed now with 442 and calmag since i just flushed with florakleen.

so my question is..... what do i do tomorrow? how do i control my ec if 15 percent runoff isnt enough?

and thats why i dont like the 6/9 micro bloom.it takes my ph to 5.4 and use a shit load of up. a 424 its 6 everytime

we dont have silica here to raise bf anyone says.
The 6/9 recipe has all the elements needed so no additional inputs like calmag are necessary. In fact adding calmag to 6/9 disturbs the ratios and might be one of the reasons for build up. Florakleen is IMO another one of those products just to spend money on. Remember keep it simple with coco. The more things you add the more confusing it is to figure out what's happening when something isn't right.
your tutorial is like my bible....

but how do i control the salt build up if 15 percent runoff each time and once a week 1/4 strength nute feed isnt enough to drop the ec? use florakleen weekly?

that would suck bc i woulld really like to add a bio war nute and root pack. but if im just flushing all the time....
Nutrient build up is controlled by not overfeeding in the first place. I don't recall what 6/9 comes out to in EC, but sometimes it needs to be diluted for younger plants, or a different environment. The ratio is what's important.
But justiceman. what how was your 6/9 schedule? always feeding? how did you control the ec rise?

and what did you do for the low ph? 5.4 is my ph with 6/9
I always feed in coco from day 1, and I try to play into the EC by assuming the coco will retain more than what will come out. In other words I feed light enough to make the EC build up in the medium work for me instead of against me.

If I don't know the strain I like to start plants off at about 0.6EC(300ppm) and go up from there as they get bigger. I typically max out at about 1.2EC(600ppm) at full flower and then taper back down. Mind you this includes my source water which is from tap at 0.3EC(150ppm). I like to mix R/O with a bit of tap water to get to that 0.2-0.3EC(100-150ppm) starting value. It has helped to stabilize pH in my experience.

cheers bicky studs

yeah... its kinda nuts. is it ok to always have to ph up? i feel like its a bad thing

my water here sucks and i have to ro so i use it.

i want to just do 6/9 bc of the simplicity

but constantly rising of the ec and lowering of the ph is killing me. i feel like it is always like that. this problem started when i started watering everyday. now im over feeding!! how do i balance it without florakleen all the time?
There's nothing wrong with adding pH up if your pH is too low. It's probably potassium silicate, potassium hydroxide, or some other form of potassium.

ahhh fuck ok im stoned

lets be 100 percent clear

when i use the 6/9 with ro water is ph of 5.4 in the rez

i then ph up to 5.8 or 6

i think its bad to always use ph to control the rez. Am i wrong?

what happens after a week is the ec goes into the 2000 and ph of 5.4 or lower

in 6 feedings per week

so thats my question. if im going to feed everyday should do like feed feed 1/4 strenth feed feed 1/4 strength feed

thats 7 days schedual
You should be at 7 feeds a week at least, not 6. An EC reading of 4.0(2000ppm) is WAY TOO HOT. I'd prefer if your rez reading was down in the 0.8-1.4EC(400-700ppm) range. It means your plants are using more water than nutrients. You need to top off the rez with straight water periodically to keep the EC from rising too high. Yup you deifnitely don't want to feed 2000ppm everyday. That's how you get build up. You want to feed much much lower. Somewhere between .8-1.4EC(400-700ppm) depending on stage of life and environment.
thats what i know.fuck it sucks

but thats what im tripping out on. how do u feed everyday to not let coco dry and control the overfeeding?
When you feed low and consistently you keep on pushing out excess nutrient as well as keeping the salts from binding to the coco. If the coco stays wet the salts stay in solution, If you feed too strong everyday you get build up regardless of sound watering practices.
ppm always rises over time and ph drops full feed of 6/9 everyday
Classic signs of too much nutrient being used. Just remember that you can make 6/9 and then dilute it with water to your desired strength level.
Are those what your roots looked like at chop? Or earlier in plants life? What size pots? Nice job man
That was when I chopped them. I pulled them out of the 3.5 gal pots to check the root mass. Only filled them to about 3gal though. Thank you!
 
Humboldt.Rio

Humboldt.Rio

309
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thanks for taking the time bicky studs. i am frustrated but i wont give up

this is all from transplant a month ago. flushed the new coco well and precharged with calmag and transplanted to 2 gallon. i was harvesting another crop and just was feeding. feeding feeding everyday and nothing was happening and then it got worse with the salt buidup.

sure enough 2 weeks ago did ppm check and they were like 2400 and ph 5.2

i was like what the fuck . then started flushing with 1/4 strength then next day full strength. and no recovery feeding everday and then again high ppm and low ec

so i bought flora kleen two days ago gave them 1.5mlgallon; yesterday full feed and will today as well. this morning i have my first new growth on half. the other half have not recovered. not worse but..

when i pulled 4 plants that were fucked. the roots where shit, from the high ppm and had died. like only 3 inches of the 2 gallon had roots. the rest was just wet coco.
 
Humboldt.Rio

Humboldt.Rio

309
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The 6/9 recipe has all the elements needed so no additional inputs like calmag are necessary. In fact adding calmag to 6/9 disturbs the ratios and might be one of the reasons for build up. Florakleen is IMO another one of those products just to spend money on. Remember keep it simple with coco. The more things you add the more confusing it is to figure out what's happening when something isn't right.

Nutrient build up is controlled by not overfeeding in the first place. I don't recall what 6/9 comes out to in EC, but sometimes it needs to be diluted for younger plants, or a different environment. The ratio is what's important.

I always feed in coco from day 1, and I try to play into the EC by assuming the coco will retain more than what will come out. In other words I feed light enough to make the EC build up in the medium work for me instead of against me.

If I don't know the strain I like to start plants off at about 0.6EC(300ppm) and go up from there as they get bigger. I typically max out at about 1.2EC(600ppm) at full flower and then taper back down. Mind you this includes my source water which is from tap at 0.3EC(150ppm). I like to mix R/O with a bit of tap water to get to that 0.2-0.3EC(100-150ppm) starting value. It has helped to stabilize pH in my experience.


There's nothing wrong with adding pH up if your pH is too low. It's probably potassium silicate, potassium hydroxide, or some other form of potassium.


You should be at 7 feeds a week at least, not 6. An EC reading of 4.0(2000ppm) is WAY TOO HOT. I'd prefer if your rez reading was down in the 0.8-1.4EC(400-700ppm) range. It means your plants are using more water than nutrients. You need to top off the rez with straight water periodically to keep the EC from rising too high. Yup you deifnitely don't want to feed 2000ppm everyday. That's how you get build up. You want to feed much much lower. Somewhere between .8-1.4EC(400-700ppm) depending on stage of life and environment.

When you feed low and consistently you keep on pushing out excess nutrient as well as keeping the salts from binding to the coco. If the coco stays wet the salts stay in solution, If you feed too strong everyday you get build up regardless of sound watering practices.

Classic signs of too much nutrient being used. Just remember that you can make 6/9 and then dilute it with water to your desired strength level.

That was when I chopped them. I pulled them out of the 3.5 gal pots to check the root mass. Only filled them to about 3gal though. Thank you!
thanks justiceman

im reading your 600 watt hempy journal right now

i wasnt feeding 2000 ppm in my rez. the runoff was over 2000

when i do 6/9 the ppm is like 520 and thats what i will use today

so would you just keep uping the ph everytime you make a rez if needed?

5.4 to 5.8ish

i hand water right now and just make a 10 gallon rez for two days of feed and then make a new one
 
Humboldt.Rio

Humboldt.Rio

309
93
thanks justiceman

im reading your 600 watt hempy journal right now

i wasnt feeding 2000 ppm in my rez. the runoff was over 2000

when i do 6/9 the ppm is like 520 and thats what i will use today

so would you just keep uping the ph everytime you make a rez if needed?

5.4 to 5.8ish

i hand water right now and just make a 10 gallon rez for two days of feed and then make a new one
i thought maybe the calmag was fucking with it
 
bicky studs

bicky studs

2,602
263
thanks for taking the time bicky studs. i am frustrated but i wont give up

this is all from transplant a month ago. flushed the new coco well and precharged with calmag and transplanted to 2 gallon. i was harvesting another crop and just was feeding. feeding feeding everyday and nothing was happening and then it got worse with the salt buidup.

sure enough 2 weeks ago did ppm check and they were like 2400 and ph 5.2

i was like what the fuck . then started flushing with 1/4 strength then next day full strength. and no recovery feeding everday and then again high ppm and low ec

so i bought flora kleen two days ago gave them 1.5mlgallon; yesterday full feed and will today as well. this morning i have my first new growth on half. the other half have not recovered. not worse but..

when i pulled 4 plants that were fucked. the roots where shit, from the high ppm and had died. like only 3 inches of the 2 gallon had roots. the rest was just wet coco.
well that is a bit different to the original story.... but same solution.
keeping nutes low from the start is good advice mentioned by others too.
sounds like things looking up..n its flushed. so keep up the regular feeding!
you will find the sweet spot with ur nute mixes and justiceman has used gh. so he gave you some around abouts to start with.
into it m8:badboy:
 
justiceman

justiceman

2,718
263
thanks justiceman

im reading your 600 watt hempy journal right now

i wasnt feeding 2000 ppm in my rez. the runoff was over 2000

when i do 6/9 the ppm is like 520 and thats what i will use today

so would you just keep uping the ph everytime you make a rez if needed?

5.4 to 5.8ish

i hand water right now and just make a 10 gallon rez for two days of feed and then make a new one
Right on you'll be able to see how I went way overboard with feeds at the start, but eventually balanced out my feeds to be lower and more appropriate for the stage of life. That first run with Veg+Bloom I pushed the envelope during flower and got a little bit of burn since it was my first time using it and I wanted to see what the max was. The latest run I took all that into account and had a much smoother cycle. I've come to learn that less is more in coco

Ah I understand now. I was a bit alarmed at a rez being that high hahaha. Makes more sense now. Next time you make a rez if you feel like playing around try and add a bit of tapwater to your R/O to .2-.3EC(100-150ppm) before the food. If you do I'd wager you'll have to add less pH up or you might even have to add a bit of pH down. Having some alkalinity from tap water often helps to stabilize pH. If not adding pH up every time is perfectly fine as well.

I'd probably recommend bringing down the strength a bit from 520. That's a full dose but since they are hurting they probably won't need that much. Not to mention you said most of the roots are gone. It's going to take a while for them to come back if they havn't been damaged too much. Just keep on trucking and if it doesn't work out then use what has been learned to your next run.
 
Humboldt.Rio

Humboldt.Rio

309
93
im guessing it is with all this 1/4 feed talk.
you need to get a few days regular feeding going.
i would do a bit more runoff for now
dont let em get light!
start lifting your pots before and after you feed. get a feel for em. i guess you remember how they feel dry. thats the last time:badboy::D
i would say dont let em go under a 1/3rd thier wet wieght.... stay on the safe side, once they have roots you wont be drowning them.
some1 could cherp in and correct this if wrong:eyepiece:
but... bicky studs thats how i used to think about it. these guys here are saying forget weight just feed. wet doesnt matter bc its about oxygen not water
 
Humboldt.Rio

Humboldt.Rio

309
93
Right on you'll be able to see how I went way overboard with feeds at the start, but eventually balanced out my feeds to be lower and more appropriate for the stage of life. That first run with Veg+Bloom I pushed the envelope during flower and got a little bit of burn since it was my first time using it and I wanted to see what the max was. The latest run I took all that into account and had a much smoother cycle. I've come to learn that less is more in coco

Ah I understand now. I was a bit alarmed at a rez being that high hahaha. Makes more sense now. Next time you make a rez if you feel like playing around try and add a bit of tapwater to your R/O to .2-.3EC(100-150ppm) before the food. If you do I'd wager you'll have to add less pH up or you might even have to add a bit of pH down. Having some alkalinity from tap water often helps to stabilize pH. If not adding pH up every time is perfectly fine as well.

I'd probably recommend bringing down the strength a bit from 520. That's a full dose but since they are hurting they probably won't need that much. Not to mention you said most of the roots are gone. It's going to take a while for them to come back if they havn't been damaged too much. Just keep on trucking and if it doesn't work out then use what has been learned to your next run.
thank you so much for all your help and advise. im gonna keep reading the hempy story!
 
Humboldt.Rio

Humboldt.Rio

309
93
sure!
i said that. if they wet feed em....etc

i was saying to start feeling how heavy ur pots are so u know how often to feed them.... not if to feed them
u cant feed em 10times a day straight off the bat...
man.. i have to stop smoking...



i see what you mean. like when to feed more times per day. i have to get that one time a day wet/dry cycle out of my head, fuck..

just did my feed. in was ph 5.9 ppm was 490 out was 6.0 and 620

while i was working i was thinking out how you not battle ppm. u let it rise by using less.... fuck. and how adding water while change the ph

ive never done a recirculation system. all hand water. would always just mix and feed

this takes planning allowing it to increase without fighting. and thats what it feels like everyday, a fight to keep it in balance
 
bicky studs

bicky studs

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263
man.. i have to stop smoking...



i see what you mean. like when to feed more times per day. i have to get that one time a day wet/dry cycle out of my head, fuck..

just did my feed. in was ph 5.9 ppm was 490 out was 6.0 and 620

while i was working i was thinking out how you not battle ppm. u let it rise by using less.... fuck. and how adding water while change the ph

ive never done a recirculation system. all hand water. would always just mix and feed

this takes planning allowing it to increase without fighting. and thats what it feels like everyday, a fight to keep it in balance
thats good... things are leveling out.
lower your feed down like justice said... 450 or something.... add a feed n keep course.
once u find where u wanna be there wont be battles as long as its frequent enough ull be in the +-100ppm zone in no time.
 
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