HPS light superior vs current led tech?

[cemchris]

@MidwestToker sorry to bother you but would you show your comparison pics of your hps and led please?

Your results and info are needed here. And your environment is much like mine.

Thank you in advance.

Yep another dude I forgot about.

 

[Aqua Man]

As @Burned Haze & @Aqua Man said. I'm not knocking the tech. They can both exists in the same space. If it wasnt for people like @Burned Haze it would all just be claims from the company without real world testing. Respect for taking the leap and the investment. You can't deny your results. No offence but you are a diamond in the rough at the moment in imo. You don't see too many at scale with your results as most people I see with full LED setups are mostly new growers. That isn't a knock. That is just me being real. We will prb see in time as they become more skilled getting to the point I'm looking for on the smaller scale. I paid next to nothing for my equip to pretty much free so dropping a ton of money on new stuff imo is just wasting money at this point. I get away with running 10k (non sealed - no gas) w/o a/c about 7 months out of the year so my setup is on the stupid cheap side in terms of power. Maybe why I have been hesitant for so long. It's also more for me as the tech keeps improving, and there for gets cheaper, the longer you wait the more your money will buy you. I think that's a big part of why you see more of the older people who have accumulated equip over the last 10 to 20 years not just stepping up to the plate and in a holding pattern.

You also cant deny you can get a 1k bulb/ballast/fixture for $160ish bucks now new. As far as startup costs can you get equivalent LED for that kind of price point as far as potential yield? Not to say that's a better choice just strictly from a price/yield standpoint. That is the point I'm trying to make. Startup cost vs potential output. Not what is the best and brightest. I still remember my very first grow. Cheap 1k mag mh/hps. Some $10 Nirvana NL x Big Bud seeds (got to love them hermies). 5 gal pots of promix in a 4 x 5 closet and getting 2.1 lbs knowing next to nothing with a ton of mistakes using PBP. I guess that kind of jaded me from the get go and its only been bigger and better from that point on. Just hard to scale back when that is your base so lbs are kind of the gauge point for me. GPW means nothing unless I see a full racks like @Dirtbag.

Ill say this if I still lived in TX I would prob have full LED rooms rocking at this point since you need about 2 tons per 2k with those summers.

Being on 1 side of the camp or other is just dumb. Tech is tech. If you are getting flowers at the end of a run it doesn't matter. That's on both sides of the fence. If you are happy with your purchase and the final result then it doesn't matter. Also understand there are many type of growers with way different setups and expectations all together in this 1 place. Some people are happy with 100 grams off a run. Other people would cry and reconsider their life choices with that type of yield. Like I said in the other post just don't stop with the lights and look at everything in your grow the same way. Medium or nutes and everything else in between. Start really looking at your cost per gram to produce (including your investment on the equip and everything else per year). Working in the industry and watching the type of money that gets thrown around and wasted really opened my eyes to this in the last 4 years and made me completely do a 180 on my approach to everything. I don't care what medium/nute/light I use as long as its cheaper then the last and the quality doesn't drift.



I might be slow but I'm getting there. Finally switched to 315's in veg vs 1000w turned down to 600's about 8 months ago.
View attachment 882284

But still rocking the old SE tech in my rooms cause it's cheap and gives me lots of grams. Strictly cost approach to scale.
View attachment 882288

I agree with you. I think LED gets such a bad rap because of how dirty and deceitful the industry is and i would say maybe 10% if that of the LED's on the market can/will compete with HID. That leaves a lot of shit out there that still make the same claims and come nowhere near backing it up. 90% of the LEDs don't come close and im just throwing numbers based on looking around.

I would as i have stated many times have no problem running HID if it suited my needs. I'm not knocking it.... its been a proven standard for a long time. But i do think that standard will shift over to LED in the coming years as we all manage to get more info, experience and data. People like @sixstring and @Burned Haze are the ones that will be considered the pioneer growers on this front. Lets be honest they are paving the way on this front on their dime to give the rest of us the info, proof and results both positive or negative. They are the ones that will spend far more $$$ than the rest of us and we will be the ones benefiting in the end.

 

[Burned Haze]

@Ace9137
How did I not explain any of that properly ? ( you made no points or effort to give info to progress anyone on knowing shit, just bashing....)the saddest way your debating/commanding when I tried to explain and re-educate . I’m no expert or sales man , I just want people to realize there’s certain things you gotta do to get good herb...


your just bashing, saying I need to explain the whole map ( I don’t have the time or effort to do that, even if I did it would be a book and there’s no need for that )of everything and cure/prove the whole problem of the debate of efficiency when I just just showed heat issues and a few other info I wanted to add.
All I did was show my side of it and let people choose there’s ? trust me I did not “paste “ my info cause actually it was just math from my experience with these lights ( and my grow logs).
———————————-
Since you think I’m “pasting”..........


The way I test it is having a humidity/temputure controllers with a probe on the top middle bud and i min /max my 4 tables (2 timber (2), 2 Spyrx plus) and then I would thermometer my environment and see if I have any off spots (since 20ft x35ft ) i got the room not under the lights to be 1-2f degrees different no matter what part you in (checking every we hours , logging : floors , walls, heatsink/ballast , then most important : tops of canopy temperatures ( making sure that temp/humidity probe is actually accurate ) and checking with the thermometer it showed what I stayed in Previous.

(Timber) cob vero 29 from 12-16 inches of canopy : 1-2 degrees with pars 900-1300
spydrx (osram ) 4-6f @ 6-8 inches : 750-1000ish pars
DE HPS = 600-700 pars generalized at 3.5 feet and raise canopy 6-10f


For a small grower (tent )1 - 10 lights they must think how are they going to cool this, every light is btu and plants like c02. Not saying you must run a/c ( which is anther reason if you want that option for tent or small) led’s Are the choice . 80-84f with small amount of co2 instead of 75-78f and proper vpd is hard . I used to run pure winter air into my rooms with controllers and thought I was saving all this cash from no a/c. Well now I have more lights, a 3 ton a/c 1 more quest and more misc stuff
My electric bill is cheaper than those stupid hps’s And now I can control the environment down to the core and there’s no popcorn.

 

[Dirtbag]

No you can buy the boards separate for much cheaper and this allows you to just change the boards as tech upgrades.
V2 boards here:

V1 boards here:




Also how many lights are you running and are you replacing them equally?

Add in your figure of $25/month for power savings and thats $300 more a year for your HID also so that $600/year for your HID.

5 year LED with V2 $70x16=1120/5= $224/year
10 year LED with V2 70x16-1120/10=$112/year

quite a savings of $600-$112=$488/year

Not quite, as I said earlier running LED would mean I'd have to fire up a baseboard heater for heat 8 months of the year, and that easily offsets the power savings for me, and it could potentially end up costing more. So it's a wash as far as I can tell.. But I'd have to fork over $4000 to jump on the bandwagon, and for what? It's not economically viable, and to me right now anyway.. feels like a waste of money.

 

[RoyalRoutes]

Both spots have six plants
One has 5k hps
Other has 7k blurple Amazon lights (scrog
Both spots have the same growth
Plants are 5’5-5’8

 

[Aqua Man]

Not quite, as I said earlier running LED would mean I'd have to fire up a baseboard heater for heat 8 months of the year, and that easily offsets the power savings for me, and it could potentially end up costing more. So it's a wash as far as I can tell.. But I'd have to fork over $4000 to jump on the bandwagon, and for what? It's not economically viable, and to me right now anyway.. feels like a waste of money.

As usual circumstances will dictate the course of action. I fully agree nothing is one size fits all. LED may not fit ya

 

[Dirtbag]

As usual circumstances will dictate the course of action. I fully agree nothing is one size fits all. LED may not fit ya

Well, I'm open to being convinced one day. I find the tech intriguing and have no doubt in 10 years it will probably be the gold standard.

I've just worked over the numbers on paper and right now it's not adding up for me. If LED tech was half or less of the upfront cost it is now, I would be a lot more interested. Till then, I'm happy with my "stupid hps" lights.

 

[Aqua Man]

Well, I'm open to being convinced one day. I find the tech intriguing and have no doubt in 10 years it will probably be the gold standard.

I've just worked over the numbers on paper and right now it's not adding up for me. If LED tech was half or less of the upfront cost it is now, I would be a lot more interested. Till then, I'm happy with my "stupid hps" lights.

Nothing wrong with using what works. And HPS has proven that.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Well, I'm open to being convinced one day. I find the tech intriguing and have no doubt in 10 years it will probably be the gold standard.

I've just worked over the numbers on paper and right now it's not adding up for me. If LED tech was half or less of the upfront cost it is now, I would be a lot more interested. Till then, I'm happy with my "stupid hps" lights.

Thats my conclusion too. Led’s cost twice as much as they should in my opinion.

 

[916Fisherman]

Aquarium led does not count, not the same concept in entirety. It is not argument to stand up for your principles nor to call someone out for their BS. Of course I wear a tinfoil hat, and I believe that CNN is the greatest news network of all time,(they would never lie to us).

How is it not the same concept? My corals feed and grow from photosynthesis as do my plants. Really the only difference is spectrum.

We get it, you have your opinion and you’re entitled to that

I’ve seen enough and read enough to know LED is the future of lighting.

 

[Kingjoshh]

damn y’all taking what lights you choose like your religion . At the end of the day people are still gonna think they know better

 

[Aqua Man]

damn y’all taking what lights you choose like your religion . At the end of the day people are still gonna think they know better

Passionate growers make for great discussion and information threads. Gives everyone a good view of facts, opinions and the reasons behind them. At the end of the day our goals are are very similar but what's the best part is how many different ways we can achieve them.

 

[Kingjoshh]

Passionate growers make for great discussion and information threads. Gives everyone a good view of facts, opinions and the reasons behind them. At the end of the day our goals are are very similar but what's the best part is how many different ways we can achieve them.

Only if people were actually reading and taking it in very few do, at this point it’s” my car fits my needs so it’s better then yours”

 

[GrnMtnGrowR]

Just to lighten up the mood here, maybe...I have a picture of my old UFO being used upstairs in a metal cabinet which is only about 28" x 18" and about 50" of headspace. It is crazy hot up there (89°F right now) so I decided to use my old 180 watt UFO LED that I bought about 10-12 years ago because it doesn't produce much heat. I couldn't bring myself to kill one of my girls, but I will let her bake in the heat. Does anyone remember these LED's?

 

[Aqua Man]

Just to lighten up the mood here, maybe...I have a picture of my old UFO being used upstairs in a metal cabinet which is only about 28" x 18" and about 50" of headspace. It is crazy hot up there (89°F right now) so I decided to use my old 180 watt UFO LED that I bought about 10-12 years ago because it doesn't produce much heat. I couldn't bring myself to kill one of my girls, but I will let her bake in the heat. Does anyone remember these LED's?
View attachment 882338View attachment 882339View attachment 882340View attachment 882341View attachment 882342

Lol just awesome man!!!

 

[Dirtbag]

Only if people were actually reading and taking it in very few do, at this point it’s” my car fits my needs so it’s better then yours”

Good analogy. Honestly from my perspective this conversation reminds me of people who own a Tesla telling me how crappy my regular car is and that I'm an idiot for not getting a Tesla, and that electric cars are the future. Its elitist, and that alone turns me off.

I dont disagree, they're great cars, but overpriced, and the technology is still being refined. I'll wait until my car needs replacing before I make any changes, and unless the Tesla becomes more affordable, that amazing technology is not in the cards for me.

 

[GrnMtnGrowR]

And here is my HPS cabinet in basement with 4 different strains all started blooming at different times. 32" x 32" homemade cabinet.
Here I am using a 400 watt HPS dimmed to 300 watts, because of the heat today, and the cabinet is holding at 86°. 1st pic is of all 4, 2nd pic is Dark Star, 3rd pic is DA3, which I breed from Dark Star x Amnesia, 4th pic is Humboldts' Blue Dream, and the last pic is Chocolate Haze. It's all good HPS and LED!

 

[Kingjoshh]

Good analogy. Honestly from my perspective this conversation reminds me of people who own a Tesla telling me how crappy my regular car is and that I'm an idiot for not getting a Tesla, and that electric cars are the future. Its elitist, and that alone turns me off.

I dont disagree, they're great cars, but overpriced, and the technology is still being refined. I'll wait until my car needs replacing before I make any changes, and unless the Tesla becomes more affordable, that amazing technology is not in the cards for me.

they ARE CRAZY interesting cars, But i got a man crush on Elon musk so

 

[Ace9137]

@Ace9137
How did I not explain any of that properly ? ( you made no points or effort to give info to progress anyone on knowing shit, just bashing....)the saddest way your debating/commanding when I tried to explain and re-educate . I’m no expert or sales man , I just want people to realize there’s certain things you gotta do to get good herb...


your just bashing, saying I need to explain the whole map ( I don’t have the time or effort to do that, even if I did it would be a book and there’s no need for that )of everything and cure/prove the whole problem of the debate of efficiency when I just just showed heat issues and a few other info I wanted to add.
All I did was show my side of it and let people choose there’s ? trust me I did not “paste “ my info cause actually it was just math from my experience with these lights ( and my grow logs).
———————————-
Since you think I’m “pasting”..........


The way I test it is having a humidity/temputure controllers with a probe on the top middle bud and i min /max my 4 tables (2 timber (2), 2 Spyrx plus) and then I would thermometer my environment and see if I have any off spots (since 20ft x35ft ) i got the room not under the lights to be 1-2f degrees different no matter what part you in (checking every we hours , logging : floors , walls, heatsink/ballast , then most important : tops of canopy temperatures ( making sure that temp/humidity probe is actually accurate ) and checking with the thermometer it showed what I stayed in Previous.

(Timber) cob vero 29 from 12-16 inches of canopy : 1-2 degrees with pars 900-1300
spydrx (osram ) 4-6f @ 6-8 inches : 750-1000ish pars
DE HPS = 600-700 pars generalized at 3.5 feet and raise canopy 6-10f


For a small grower (tent )1 - 10 lights they must think how are they going to cool this, every light is btu and plants like c02. Not saying you must run a/c ( which is anther reason if you want that option for tent or small) led’s Are the choice . 80-84f with small amount of co2 instead of 75-78f and proper vpd is hard . I used to run pure winter air into my rooms with controllers and thought I was saving all this cash from no a/c. Well now I have more lights, a 3 ton a/c 1 more quest and more misc stuff
My electric bill is cheaper than those stupid hps’s And now I can control the environment down to the core and there’s no popcorn.

I don't need all of what you have to grow a plant. If you do it for the love of the grow. For thousands of years people grew plants, they grew them through selective breeding. Those people eventually gave us crops that they manipulated over time by picking the best and utilizing what they had on hand at the time. It is wonderful that you can invest that heavily into your grows, truly that is great. I might point out that the CO2 in most homes, if not all, have more than a high enough CO2 content to provide with your plants.

I love it when some
(Timber) cob vero 29 from 12-16 inches of canopy : 1-2 degrees with pars 900-1300
spydrx (osram ) 4-6f @ 6-8 inches : 750-1000ish pars
DE HPS = 600-700 pars generalized at 3.5 feet and raise canopy 6-10f
In the grand scheme of things all that means nothing to me, more so I doubt a plant cares as much as you think about that stuff. I am sure your set up is expensive and top of the line. Temperature control, I would put any indoor plant up against any outdoor plant grown, outdoors hands down will win. So when I do an indoor grow, I don't go for 700 dollar lights, 300 dollar CO2 tanks and ect. , I do not use an air conditioner, (which defeats the purpose of energy savings on so many levels), I also do not worry if my temps go high once in a while. It is wonderful that you need all that, here is what I use, 120 dollar HID lamp, 80 dollar tent, happy frog soil 20 bucks, two ventilation ducts 20 bucks. I get around a pound per grow, I do not use PH meters, I do not follow the advice on most forums unless it is a gardening site, with all this I grow for myself and one other, with that said I knock out a little less to over a pound per grow, strain dependent. Me personally, my grows do fine, I work for utility, not pagentry, pretty grows, how does it smoke? Had a buddy come over the other day and smoke my weed, he had to go home and lay down. maybe you have great grow room and every modern convenience of gadgetry, in the end, I am doing a lot more with a lot less, and I am using only 400 watt HID.

 

[GrnMtnGrowR]

Ace9137
Dude, you need to chill! Why are you always so angry? I have read dozens of your posts, you are always angry about everything. Kick back, toke one up and chill brother!