HPS light superior vs current led tech?

[Fangthane]

Samsung Master Race checking in here. Just got a Note 9...and FUCKING HATE IT. I want my Note 5 back. I want to commit a hate crime against whoever decided it was a good idea to put a curvy screen on a device intended to be used with a stylus. "Fuck curved screens" is my new stance.

Anyway, I'd love to have az2000's cooler-running CMH setup, cause mine pretty much bakes my tent if I try to use it at any time other than the so-called winter here in Az. For good or bad, I'm thinking I'm Team LED from here on out. Been drooling over these knock-off Quantum Boards (<--LINK) on Amazon. 240+ watts of LM301B diodes and dimmable Meanwell drivers for $250. When I can afford another light upgrade, I'm willing to gamble that the bare PC boards that HLG uses aren't significantly better than others in the market. Thoughts?

 

[Aqua Man]

Samsung Master Race checking in here. Just got a Note 9...and FUCKING HATE IT. I want my Note 5 back. I want to commit a hate crime against whoever decided it was a good idea to put a curvy screen on a device intended to be used with a stylus. "Fuck curved screens" is my new stance.

Anyway, I'd love to have az2000's cooler-running CMH setup, cause mine pretty much bakes my tent if I try to use it at any time other than the so-called winter here in Az. For good or bad, I'm thinking I'm Team LED from here on out. Been drooling over these knock-off Quantum Boards (<--LINK) on Amazon. 240+ watts of LM301B diodes and dimmable Meanwell drivers for $250. When I can afford another light upgrade, I'm willing to gamble that the bare PC boards that HLG uses aren't significantly better than others in the market. Thoughts?

I would

 

[Mr.Juice]

Well I just finished my 4th grow. Used cheapie lights. Started this from a clone of my first blue dreams, veg to 24” and then almost 8 weeks flower, single plant. I’m pretty happy with the results. Still made lots of mistakes and still learning.

 

[az2000]

Anyway, I'd love to have az2000's cooler-running CMH setup, cause mine pretty much bakes my tent if I try to use it at any time other than the so-called winter here in Az. ... Thoughts?

Is your CMH fixture with an integrated ballast, or remote? I've never used the original integrated variety. The heat bothered me. I didn't start using CMH until the remote ballast was available. (Now there are a couple reflectors that can be air cooled using the extraction fan. I've been tempted to try that, but I don't think there's that much heat to isolate that way. Compared to the possible loss from the glass covering the bottom of the reflector.).

I've got a feeling you might be engaging in "grass is greener" thinking. The average, LED fixture runs pretty darn warm. There are good LEDs that don't. But, it's very hard to know what those are because there's so much hype out there. Price doesn't equate to quality (and, 3-4 years ago, was more often than not the inverse). I have some Area-51 fixtures that could run about 30w/sq ft. They were expensive (and the exception to the inverse I mentioned). The average Amazon lights had to be run about 40-50w/sq ft. They ran as hot as CMH, for 5-15w/sq ft more energy.

I haven't looked at this stuff for 3-4 years. Maybe things have improved. I honestly just got tired of what felt like constantly exposing myself to a timeshare pitch. There is (or was) so much predation out there. And, the cannabis sites were a large part of the problem (taking filthy lucre from the likes of SmokeSarah and Scammie Macpherson). I felt better removing myself from it all. Life got simpler with CMH and T5HO (and remote ballasts for that too). Denser, more crystal production, more terpene aromas/taste.

With the AZ heat, I wouldn't mind spending $2k on top-of-the-line LEDs to run the coolest possible. But... with all the hucksters, it didn't seem worth the effort. There was absolutely no objectivity. Everyone would say "my LED produces dynamite stuff." It was like, if people bought it, they had to pitch it. No objectivity about how many w/sq ft they were running. Or, how much heat. (I mentioned earlier the guy running 80w/sq ft of Mars. He loved it. But, he never mentioned to anyone that he loved it *that* much... 80w/sq ft much. He probably lived in the Northern Territories and appreciated the heat. But, nobody would know that because all he said is "My Mars is killer." No telling how many people bought that mid- to low-grade light thinking he was being objective. And then, when they had it, they had to like it too. It's human psychology. The "investment factor." Throwing more money after bad.).

Again, I'm not trying to engage in hate. I'm just saying it felt more political than growing. Like team sports or political parties. Emotional advocacy (in denial about the *predominant* flim flam). Maybe things have changed in the past 3-4 years. I hope so. It would be nice if the LED grow-light market were more reliable, produced better results with lower energy/heat.

 

[az2000]

Well I just finished my 4th grow. Used cheapie lights.

What watts/sq ft did you run during mid-flower'ish?

Those buds look a lot exactly like the buds I grew using ordinary LED household lightbulbs. Phillips 60w equiv, GE brightsticks, and 5-6 Cree PAR38 floods (65w eqiv BR35 bulbs. I don't think they make those anymore.). I cut the plastic difisuer off the bulbs, and used a ground-fault isolation outlet to protect myself from electrocution. (The plastic diffuser exposes electrical surfaces.). I used enough bulbs for about 30-32w/sq ft. I felt like surrouning the plant with light makes the light more efficient than concentrating the watts from one fixture (from above).

One thing that stands out to me (which stood out with my lightbulbs, and other more-typical LED fixtures): the buds don't look frosty. They look awesome in every other way. But, not sticky? (That was my experience with any LED fixtures I used. I think the lightbulbs were even more that way, even though the buds were big and dense like yours.). I'm not saying that should be a deal breaker for anyone. It was still good (if not awesome) product. But, wasn't top shelf that way. Something in the finish quality wasn't there compared to traditional lighting.

 

[Kingjoshh]

Is your CMH fixture with an integrated ballast, or remote? I've never used the original integrated variety. The heat bothered me. I didn't start using CMH until the remote ballast was available. (Now there are a couple reflectors that can be air cooled using the extraction fan. I've been tempted to try that, but I don't think there's that much heat to isolate that way. Compared to the possible loss from the glass covering the bottom of the reflector.).

I've got a feeling you might be engaging in "grass is greener" thinking. The average, LED fixture runs pretty darn warm. There are good LEDs that don't. But, it's very hard to know what those are because there's so much hype out there. Price doesn't equate to quality (and, 3-4 years ago, was more often than not the inverse). I have some Area-51 fixtures that could run about 30w/sq ft. They were expensive (and the exception to the inverse I mentioned). The average Amazon lights had to be run about 40-50w/sq ft. They ran as hot as CMH, for 5-15w/sq ft more energy.

I haven't looked at this stuff for 3-4 years. Maybe things have improved. I honestly just got tired of what felt like constantly exposing myself to a timeshare pitch. There is (or was) so much predation out there. And, the cannabis sites were a large part of the problem (taking filthy lucre from the likes of SmokeSarah and Scammie Macpherson). I felt better removing myself from it all. Life got simpler with CMH and T5HO (and remote ballasts for that too). Denser, more crystal production, more terpene aromas/taste.

With the AZ heat, I wouldn't mind spending $2k on top-of-the-line LEDs to run the coolest possible. But... with all the hucksters, it didn't seem worth the effort. There was absolutely no objectivity. Everyone would say "my LED produces dynamite stuff." It was like, if people bought it, they had to pitch it. No objectivity about how many w/sq ft they were running. Or, how much heat. (I mentioned earlier the guy running 80w/sq ft of Mars. He loved it. But, he never mentioned to anyone that he loved it *that* much... 80w/sq ft much. He probably lived in the Northern Territories and appreciated the heat. But, nobody would know that because all he said is "My Mars is killer." No telling how many people bought that mid- to low-grade light thinking he was being objective. And then, when they had it, they had to like it too. It's human psychology. The "investment factor." Throwing more money after bad.).

Again, I'm not trying to engage in hate. I'm just saying it felt more political than growing. Like team sports or political parties. Emotional advocacy (in denial about the *predominant* flim flam). Maybe things have changed in the past 3-4 years. I hope so. It would be nice if the LED grow-light market were more reliable, produced better results with lower energy/heat.

What watts/sq ft did you run during mid-flower'ish?

Those buds look a lot exactly like the buds I grew using ordinary LED household lightbulbs. Phillips 60w equiv, GE brightsticks, and 5-6 Cree PAR38 floods (65w eqiv BR35 bulbs. I don't think they make those anymore.). I cut the plastic difisuer off the bulbs, and used a grought-fault isolation outlet to protect myself from electrocution. (The plastic diffuser exposes electrical surfaces.). I used enough bulbs for about 30-32w/sq ft. I felt like surrouning the plant with light makes the light more efficient than concentrating the watts from one fixture (from above).

One thing that stands out to me (which stood out with my lightbulbs, and other more-typical LED fixtures): the buds don't look frosty. They look awesome in every other way. But, not sticky? (That was my experience with any LED fixtures I used. I think the lightbulbs were even more that way, even though the buds were big and dense like yours.). I'm not saying that should be a deal breaker for anyone. It was still good (if not awesome) product. But, wasn't top shelf that way. Something in the finish quality wasn't there compared to traditional lighting.

he said he’s using cheapies mate? He’s not gonna be getting quad a bud

 

[az2000]

he said he’s using cheapies mate? He’s not gonna be getting quad a bud

I don't mean for this reply to be attacking. I just want to illustrate a point I made to @Fangthane above about what turned me off about the LED "scene."

In my comment to @Mr.Juice: I complimented the size and density, and confirmed the relative ease it can be had with inexpensive LED (even household bulbs available at Home Depot), with low w/sq ft compared to traditional lighting. The only thing I mentioned as a potential downside was finish quality.

Within 5 minutes that turned into an insinuation I was questioning size/density (the weight per bud).

That's a good example of what I didn't like about being into LEDs. It's like politics and religion. There seemed to be a widespread predispotion to defensiveness/oppositon rather than common-ground and objectivity. Evangelizing. Us vs them. That's the sort of thing that made it *impossible* to determine what was a good investment. It was like picking a church to go to.

I'll shut up now. I actually unsubcribed from this thread because I don't like the topic. I made my contribution in post #3. I happened to see @Fangthane mention me, so I thought I would comment. (Then, saw @Mr.Juice's buds which looked familar, and thought I'd weigh in. I shouldn't have.). Unsubscribing again. Sorry!

 

[Kingjoshh]

I don't mean for this reply to be attacking. I just want to illustrate a point I made to @Fangthane above about what turned me off about the LED "scene."

In my comment to @Mr.Juice: I complimented the size and density, and confirmed the relative ease it can be had with inexpensive LED (even household bulbs available at Home Depot), with low w/sq ft compared to traditional lighting. The only thing I mentioned as a potential downside was finish quality.

Within 5 minutes that turned into an insinuation I was questioning size/density (the weight per bud).

That's a good example of what I didn't like about being into LEDs. It's like politics and religion. There seemed to be a widespread predispotion to defensiveness/oppositon rather than common-ground and objectivity. Evangelizing. Us vs them. That's the sort of thing that made it *impossible* to determine what was a good investment. It was like picking a church to go to.

I'll shut up now. I actually unsubcribed from this thread because I don't like the topic. I made my contribution in post #3. I happened to see @Fangthane mention me, so I thought I would comment. (Then, saw @Mr.Juice's buds which looked familar, and thought I'd weigh in. I shouldn't have.). Unsubscribing again. Sorry!

I’m so confused? Chill dude this isn’t a intellectual debate why would I think your attacking me?

 

[Fangthane]

I've got a feeling you might be engaging in "grass is greener" thinking.

On the contrary, I'm engaging in, "I own both, and my CMH simply produces noticeably more heat in my tent than my higher-wattage LED fixture" thinking. The added LED perk of not having to replace expensive bulbs every 6 months pretty much precludes any likelihood of me investing in a remote fixture to make HID more suitable for my needs. I like where LED is and where it may go. I'm simply going where my interests take me - no dogmatic zealotry involved.

I don't think I can get my head far enough up my own...well, wherever yours is, to even want to try to look at things the way you do. Citing hucksterism, partisanship and religious ideologies as somehow influencing your decision making? Christ! It's lighting. I gather what info I can, try what I can afford, and go from there. There are obviously multiple, disparate light sources that can effectively grow bud; it's just a matter of finding what works best for one's individual situation. I'll happily give up some frost for the ability to keep my tent under 90F, if that's what the situation truly amounts to. Your posts suggest to me that you're masterful at finding what it is you're looking to see, whether or not it's truly there. Maybe you're just easily enthralled by that which you find distasteful. No idea. Any conversation with you just seems like it would surely be a prohibitively tedious and frustrating thing.

 

[Ace9137]

Light has become philosophical, and to study it, is to become illuminated. *chortle*

 

[Mr.Juice]

What watts/sq ft did you run during mid-flower'ish?

Those buds look a lot exactly like the buds I grew using ordinary LED household lightbulbs. Phillips 60w equiv, GE brightsticks, and 5-6 Cree PAR38 floods (65w eqiv BR35 bulbs. I don't think they make those anymore.). I cut the plastic difisuer off the bulbs, and used a ground-fault isolation outlet to protect myself from electrocution. (The plastic diffuser exposes electrical surfaces.). I used enough bulbs for about 30-32w/sq ft. I felt like surrouning the plant with light makes the light more efficient than concentrating the watts from one fixture (from above).

One thing that stands out to me (which stood out with my lightbulbs, and other more-typical LED fixtures): the buds don't look frosty. They look awesome in every other way. But, not sticky? (That was my experience with any LED fixtures I used. I think the lightbulbs were even more that way, even though the buds were big and dense like yours.). I'm not saying that should be a deal breaker for anyone. It was still good (if not awesome) product. But, wasn't top shelf that way. Something in the finish quality wasn't there compared to traditional lighting.

Hey, feel free to criticize, the only way I can learn. I don’t take offence to anything ha.

Was in a 4x4 tent running a 2000W plus two 600W COBs in total it’s pulling just under 600W actual power. I’ve had some that were much frostier looking, but these are super sticky. Could be a bit of the strain too. I’m learning with every grow, and pretty happy with my progress so far.

Here are some close ups.

I’m a firm believer in to each their own, everyone has their own preferences. But I am a firm believer that you can still get decent results even with the “cheapies”. After drying and curing I will have to recruit some tasters and see what they think, I don’t like the stuff lol. I just love growing plants.

 

[Dirtbag]

Can we all agree on a few things here?

-, there are situations where LED is a better choice, ie; hot areas., places with expensive electricity.

-, there are situations where HID is a better choice, colder places with cheap electricity.

-, LED is not all created equal, and there are in fact some terrible and/or overpriced units out there. You need to do some homework.

-, HID is idiotproof. You know what you're getting when you hang an HID.

-, LED in many cases can be superior with regard to spectrum and energy efficiency. If you can afford the cost upfront.

At the end of the day, they both have a place and are capable of growing good dope.

 

[Aqua Man]

Can we all agree on a few things here?

-, there are situations where LED is a better choice, ie; hot areas., places with expensive electricity.

-, there are situations where HID is a better choice, colder places with cheap electricity.

-, LED is not all created equal, and there are in fact some terrible and/or overpriced units out there. You need to do some homework.

-, HID is idiotproof. You know what you're getting when you hang an HID.

-, LED in many cases can be superior with regard to spectrum and energy efficiency. If you can afford the cost upfront.

At the end of the day, they both have a place and are capable of growing good dope.

Well said.

 

[Dirtbag]

Thought I'd add a pic of my recent crop, grown under HPS lol. I totally neglected this crop and it still produced.

 

[Ace9137]

Can we all agree on a few things here?

-, there are situations where LED is a better choice, ie; hot areas., places with expensive electricity.

-, there are situations where HID is a better choice, colder places with cheap electricity.

-, LED is not all created equal, and there are in fact some terrible and/or overpriced units out there. You need to do some homework.

-, HID is idiotproof. You know what you're getting when you hang an HID.

-, LED in many cases can be superior with regard to spectrum and energy efficiency. If you can afford the cost upfront.

At the end of the day, they both have a place and are capable of growing good dope.

You forgot fluorescent lights.

 

[Dirtbag]

You forgot fluorescent lights.

Lol no I didnt.

I consider that Bush league bro haha. Just kidding they have a place too. It's called pre-veg lol.

 

[Ace9137]

Lol no I didnt.

I consider that Bush league bro haha. Just kidding they have a place too. It's called pre-veg lol.

I only use them for mother plants and cuttings.

 

[JBloomers123]

Hi Danny,

I’ve been growing for years and went through the same thought process you’re considering now. Long story short,..don’t do it. I’m 99% sure you’ll be disappointed as I was.

I spent countless hours researching led brands, spectrums and reviews. In the end I thought I was making an educated purchase for all the reasons you’re considering..lower heat, lower energy consumption etc..I went with KIND LED and they failed me miserably. The unit was expensive (about $1k ) and it looked really cool. But that’s about it. They had all these claims about how the light is sooo intense that for the first week of 12/12 keep it about 36” from canopy as to not burn your plants and then reduce the height 7 inches each week until you have it about 14-16” from canopy. This was to allow the plant to get used to “intense” led lighting Lololol. it was all a crock of shit. My plants took forever to bud. They just wanted to keep stretching as if they needed more light. I literally ran out of head room.

When I called KIND LED I was beside myself as to the responses I got back. Clearly, they developed and marketed their product line in theory vs. in field application. I was appalled from some of the dumb questions they asked when trying to resolve my concerns. At that point I realized I was snookered by a slick marketing campaign.

it took 5 weeks into a 9 week grow cycle for the plants to look like they would after 2 weeks under HPS lighting.

I’ll deal with the additional heat and electric bill any day vs. trying led again. The $1k investment actually cost me about $5k because I missed out on 2 grow cycles in my quest to understand what was happening. Never again.


[

Hi All
First time on forum. Or any forum
Anyway I took 6 cutting from my mother plant last night and put into a bubble Cloner I made from stuff laying around.
Question is I've they survive and grow a fair amount under the 9x 18w leds I've got what light would I flower them under in 2x1 meter space in 20l buckets thinking of 1 x 600w HPS but unsure If led tech has surpassed HPS ? I have to spend money so might as well buy best option for them obviously for the largest yield
Any help appreciated

QUOTE="DIYDanny, post: 2267633, member: 105101"]
Hi All
First time on forum. Or any forum
Anyway I took 6 cutting from my mother plant last night and put into a bubble Cloner I made from stuff laying around.
Question is I've they survive and grow a fair amount under the 9x 18w leds I've got what light would I flower them under in 2x1 meter space in 20l buckets thinking of 1 x 600w HPS but unsure If led tech has surpassed HPS ? I have to spend money so might as well buy best option for them obviously for the largest yield
Any help appreciated
[/QUOTE]

 

[HeavyKush]

I run a 600 watt and a 350 watt (496 true watts) Viparspectra in my 4x4 tent (which is equivalent to running a 600 watt HPS) and I get great buds. Granted light penetration sucks, but that's why I top as many times as I can and when I get ready to flower I trim everything except for two or three nodes. But that's my technique. Happy Growing!

 

[Ace9137]

Hi Danny,

I’ve been growing for years and went through the same thought process you’re considering now. Long story short,..don’t do it. I’m 99% sure you’ll be disappointed as I was.

I spent countless hours researching led brands, spectrums and reviews. In the end I thought I was making an educated purchase for all the reasons you’re considering..lower heat, lower energy consumption etc..I went with KIND LED and they failed me miserably. The unit was expensive (about $1k ) and it looked really cool. But that’s about it. They had all these claims about how the light is sooo intense that for the first week of 12/12 keep it about 36” from canopy as to not burn your plants and then reduce the height 7 inches each week until you have it about 14-16” from canopy. This was to allow the plant to get used to “intense” led lighting Lololol. it was all a crock of shit. My plants took forever to bud. They just wanted to keep stretching as if they needed more light. I literally ran out of head room.

When I called KIND LED I was beside myself as to the responses I got back. Clearly, they developed and marketed their product line in theory vs. in field application. I was appalled from some of the dumb questions they asked when trying to resolve my concerns. At that point I realized I was snookered by a slick marketing campaign.

it took 5 weeks into a 9 week grow cycle for the plants to look like they would after 2 weeks under HPS lighting.

I’ll deal with the additional heat and electric bill any day vs. trying led again. The $1k investment actually cost me about $5k because I missed out on 2 grow cycles in my quest to understand what was happening. Never again.

I have to say I agree with you. I started with fluorescent lights and jumped straight to LED's, I always noticed pics of HPS bud that just seemed monstrous compared to my LED. Now I am near the end of my first grow with HPS, and for some reason it seems my electricity bill dropped 40 bucks and my buds have tripled in size. I have seen the pics and I have heard the LED testimony, what I see with my own eyes, and smoked with my own lungs, speaks greater volumes.